problem is not Netanyahu, it is not Ben Gvir. it is the white supremacist mindset of Israeli public.
problem is not Netanyahu, it is not Ben Gvir. it is the white supremacist mindset of Israeli public.
Israel #Genocide #Politics #Inhumanity #Racism
@palestine@lemmy.ml @palestine@a.gup.pe @israel
Same thing in the USA. Trump is a symptom. He could drop dead tomorrow and somehow take half of the admin with him, and the problem would still be there. The underlying problem is that roughly 1/3rd of your population is frothing at the mouth to slaughter another 1/3rd while the final third stand by and watch silently. This is not something you can fix with elections alone.
@Kyrgizion exactly.
This is the problem I have with blue MAGAts on bluesky. They are so focused on Trump and the BS story of Russia causing the problem in their society, they ignore the massive army of evangelical Christian Zionist movement that got Bush and Trump into power and control most of the media in the country.
It's the pre programmed mindset Hollywood worked so hard for decades to get into people's heads that the problem is always because of one bad guy not the movement behind it
Sigh. Bluesky was so much better before blue maga showed up. The shitposting was top notch and people were allergic to discourse.
I miss those days.
If trump were the problem, that means that other republicans would fall in line behind a more centrist candidate. However, that means they don’t actually stand for their own beliefs and that they’d also fall into line behind a more extreme right candidate, of which we have plenty in the line of succession.
There’s something somehow even more hateable about a politician who’s not actually fascist themselves, but who will gladly support them.
while the final third stand by and watch silently.
And according to some on here, we shouldn't blame any of the individuals in that final third because it's not fair to put the blame on them for the shit they stand by and tacitly support or something.
It's amazing how far some people will go to excuse the actions of those who are content to watch fascism take hold and murder it's fellow citizens while doing nothing about it.
It's funny how this comment can be read by two opposing sides who would still agree with it:
I personally strongly disagree with one of those statements but both can be interpreted 100% in agreement with what you wrote
I will excuse a lot of those people here in the US.
In my own case, I am physically disabled at the moment watching the people taking care of me and providing me transportation be horribly overworked to the point where it is painful to watch. What should I be doing with my time? Should I judge my caretakers for not making some sort of time? Is it inexcusable that I am not pressuring them to do something?
I'd like to know actually what I can do, because I'm not happy with where things are. You suggest it's a moral failure but I literally don't know what action I can take that would not be judged a moral failure.
Maybe my situation is unique in some ways, but it's not that unique in the idea that for a lot of people, finding more time could cost the livlihoods of both them and their dependents. Maybe the people you meet in your day-to-day life can easily find time to organize, etc at no significant cost, but the majority of the remaining population are oppressed themselves, just in a less severe way. Every family is isolated, and when you are isolated with a precarious livlihood, setting aside time for something comes at a cost, so is a serious choice. The obvious answer is to try to become less isolated, but that requires setting aside time without guaranteed payoff. It's easy to judge people for not doing that when there's no potential cost to your own dependents.
Most people here are living day-to-day trying to cling to what little joys they have. You can come up with laundry lists of ways they are wasting their time and money, but those wastes are hard to give up for someone living day-to-day. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but decrying the inaction from the majority of our population is shifting blame to the powerless.
In your example, where’s the fraction of people who aren’t watching silently?
they are protesting or are high on xanax or pot
82% of israelis want to ethnicly cleanse every gazan, which is a crime.
56% want to eject every non jewish israeli citizen from Israel, regardless of their citizenship.
And about half want to outright murder every palestinian regardless of age or guilt of anything. Its a country chock full of violent terrorists and a whole lot of fans of murder of innocents. Those are much worse statistics than nazi germany had. Just 18% of Israelis belong somewhere besides chained in a cell.
But dont get caught saying anything bad about zionism or having a political opinion that runs counter to Israel's will. Then youd be an antisemite, which is worse than being a war criminal, evidently.
Don’t forget it also tends to be a haven for people fleeing charges for sex crimes.
I can only find articles about the poll, but not the poll itself. Anyone got more luck?
Edit: I honestly think this shouldn't be posted without a solid source. It could be fake and would serve to 1) make the Israelian government able to say "look, we have that much support from the public to continue the genocide" and 2) further the divide of the actual people living in the whole region regardless of made up borders.
Don't have time to go through the translation, but the source is here
Did you create this profile just to post some garbage comments about this?
Yes, I waited almost a year and 1.2k comments to ask for proof on your post 🙄
Weird, that you would react so hostile.
For what it's worth, I see a screenshot of a post on X from a guy about a highly contraversial subject, and I am immediately skeptical. Somebody asking for a source, and not just another person talking about the source, is very reasonable.
Getting immediately defensive about being asked for the source material makes me immediately question the integrity of the OP and much more inclined to believe it's misinformation. Any reasonable person these days knows that even without lying, polling information can be distorted to say the exact opposite of what the poll actually suggests. "Do your own research" is also the motto of misinformation distributors.
I'm very much against the Zionists, and am fully in support of Palestine against genocide, to be clear. But this whole interaction makes you seem disingenuous.
Its not even a country, its a military occupation zone and the people a colonialists. So yeah what a shocker that people in the ZOZ (Zionist Occupation Zone) are extremely racist. Im in the ZOZ rn (long story, my parents thought it would "turn me into a Zionist") and yesterday they celebrated the brutal occupation of east Jerusalem. In that parade people waved "Israeli" flags happily alongside Kahanism flags, even Zehut showed up (far-right "Libertarian" Zionists).
For sure, but netanyahu is also very much a problem.
Schrödingers only Democracy in the Middle East.
Government is legitimate because it enacts the majority will of the people, but the government statements and actions are not representative of the majority of the people...
Unfortunately i am afraid we will see mostly the same shit like in post war Germany when everything is over. Denial, pretending to not having known, claiming to have been mislead, just following orders...
"Palestinians voted for Hamas democratically, but Israel is the only Democracy."
"Palestinians voted for Hamas" is such a braindead statement IMO. Yeah, they did, twenty years ago, after which Hamas promptly murdered the opposition and never held another fair election.
Ethno-states gonna ethno-state.
Durable peace in the middle east is not possible while the state of Israel exists.
Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: Advocating for genocide
zionists not conflating genocide and the dissolution of a state challenge (impossible)
It's not about the state Israel, it's about letting them get away with any crime they desire.
Israel have destroyed any chance for a w state solution, the only viable option left is a one state solution similar to that of South Africa, but it's not going to happen because of the power christian Zionists in the US and the rest of the world.
I honestly have no idea how this madness can be stopped without destroying the biggest religious cult in the west.
Much of what they've done in Palestine has been officially sanctioned and co-opted by western powers - it isn't at at all about the legality of what they are doing
@faab64 The Government could not do what it has been doing for decades, if the people did not vote for them. @palestine@lemmy.ml @palestine@a.gup.pe @israel
Well, that depends. I'm not familiar with the voting system in Israel but in the US for example it makes no sense and barely represents the people. So I wouldn't claim something lije that so quickly.
And we already know that tgere is a big divide in the coubtry about Netanyahu, so I doubt they have a very representative election process.
Support for the genocide is pretty universal across the Israeli political spectrum, outside of Arab Israelis. Netanyahu is divisive because he's corrupt, not because of the genocide.
@Tooden @palestine@lemmy.ml @palestine@a.gup.pe @israel
Exactly, in a democracy, when people keep chosing fascists, it is no longer the fault of the few by the failure of the society. Even if the extremists are few, they get enough support among the masses to keep getting elected and protect the criminal extremists.
in case you're wondering, here "white"="majority," not the definition used politically in most countries. Retro-etymology being "blank," or "standard," like a sheet of paper without details. In Japan, for instance, white people are ethnically japanese. I point this out because in Israel the majority would not be considered white in many places in the world; Jews would elsewhere be considered a diverse conglomerate of ethnicities.
I normally advocate for terms like "racial supremacist" or "ethno-supremacist" in a context like this because people don't get nearly as defensive when they hear this, but white supremacy is catchy as a term I guess and so it perseveres.
white supremacy is catchy as a term I guess
It's a way to virtue signal, misdirect the anger and get clicks
Fair enough. But the problem is that most of them are white Europeans
Aren't most Israeli Jews not European but Middle Eastern?
The problem isn't that they are white Europeans at all, even if it's true they are, the problem is that they are a settler colonial project.
That's actually not a problem. White europeans aren't more capable of ethno-supremacy than other races. (Putting aside whether Ashkenazi are white in that sense at all -- presumably not, since part of the reason Israel was funded was to get the Jews out of europe.) The problem is that Israel is an ethno-supremacist settler-colonist state. If you removed the Ashkenazi from Israel, the Sefardi for instance, or Mezrahi (who unarguably don't resemble white europeans) would continue the settler-colonism on their own. They don't actually need the Ashkenazi Jews for the state to perpetuate.
Fuck Israel, genocidal scum!
Source?
Unpaywalled link: https://archive.md/yI4Dy
For some reason, I can't get the whole page to translate no matter what machine translation service I used, but here's a translated excerpt from below the first graph:
It seems that Ginzburg and other ultra-Orthodox rabbis can be particularly proud of the change that has taken place in the Jewish population: 82% of those surveyed expressed support for the forced deportation of residents of the Gaza Strip, and 56% supported the forced deportation of Arab citizens of Israel. In a 2003 survey, the positive answers to these questions were "only" 45% and 31%, respectively.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/majority-israelis-support-expulsion-palestinians-gaza-poll I think it’s this? Not OP.
Yeah, i know those things are true because they have been known for a while and confirmed multiple times, but still its good to have a direct source link, even if the publisher was specified.
The twitter post even has the timestamp removed which is always bad.
@faab64 Not only Israel. I think it is widespread in every government having supported them after the ICJ warrants.
It can be, and in fact is, more than one thing. In fact, all of these are even related closely. Wouldn't want people to mistakenly think your goal is to direct attention away from those who are most directly culpable for action when it comes to Genocide, that'd be... weird, right?
I think it's pretty obvious that their point is that Netanyahu is a symptom of a deeper evil, but go off with your vague accusations and insinuations I guess
Netanyahu is the flag bearer of the Israeli fascim, the flag was handed over to him from Begin and Sharon and will be given to another monster who maybe even worse than him.
He is not the reason for Israeli atrocities, he is the child of a supremacist mindset who lies with not shame and gets away with it.
He is far worse than Trump, because he is not an idiot and knows how to manipulate others without looking like a clown. .
They did not "gain power" with Netanyahu. Israel has been a genocidal colonial project from day one and had close collaboration with Nazi Germany before the Holocaust.
"How many Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto support forced expulsion of Germans?
Everyone has infinite sympathy for their own tribe and infinite hostility for those that attack them. News at 11."
Man, I really wish I could see the original comment you responded to - but a mod deleted it. 😕
The fact that you think I'm here to tout Jews is proof of how lost this whole struggle is. Being right has no ethnicity. Nor does being wrong. If you disagree, you're on the same side as the people putting Jews and Palestinians alike in ghettos.
@rationallib another sgi-forf-brain idiot coming to defense of the genocidal regime of Israel.
Not even worth engaging, just block and move on.
@rationallib @faab64 The above post was empirical, where are your numbers or is it just yourself you are talking about? My personal experience before the war genocide was, that most Palestinians have nothing against Israelis, they just want to live a hapoy family life in peace.
So where are your numbers.
Israelis don't consider themselves White. Saying that the problem is "White Supremacy" shows that you're looking at the problem through a lens that is very conditioned for Western politics
lol
These brought tens of thousands of Jews from remote parts of Ethiopia, who had suffered from religious persecution, famine and civil wars.
Yet, when they arrived in Israel, these distinctive people faced appalling discrimination, racism and a lack of empathy for their hardships in Ethiopia and during their journey to Israel.
We can talk about it from a lens of Western politics. Because it is western politics. Because Israel is literally European colonialism
You can take the settler out of Amerikkka, but you can't take Amerikkka out the settler
They also outright refused to consider Ugandan Jews as Jews, while the rabbinic conferences all over the world had no problem with it.
@Richat the foundation of Zionism is in white supremacy under the cover of Judaism.
Zionism is a western problem z it was created in central Europe, just like fascism with the same kind of mindset.
One was about Arian people, the other about Jewish people, both with the same disregard to others and the right to exterminate their opponents with no mercy.
@Richat
Oh, another #Zionist troll. So many #Zionazis our this morning. #BlockZionists
We need to reject those who blame Jews.
Not for optics, and not because it would get us in trouble to be associated with those people, but because Jews as a whole are not responsible and should not be held responsible for the actions of Zionists -- zionists who are represented by a lot of Jews, but also by a lot of christians, atheists etc. who should not be blamed any less for their ethnicity/religion, just as Jews should not be blamed for the actions of zionists.
What the fuck does that mean exactly?
It means exactly what it says.
More Jews live outside of Israel than within it.
Opposing Israel and Israelis is not the same as opposing Jews.
It's dangerous to conflate all Jews with the genocidal Israel as you are doing here, but I believe you know that already and do it intentionally.
Thanks for confirming. Not that anyone is mistaken.
Remember that the Holocaust had majority support in Germany too.
Saying Israel is like Nazi Germany is absolutely not a metaphor. There are more similarities than there are differences, they just switched up which ethnic group is the target.
https://zionism.wtf/ Though quiz for the daring and the ones who are still unsure if there are parallels.
13 eight and 8 wrong.there really is no difference in rhetoric.
@HiddenLayer555 @faab64 There are lots of parallels, you may want to read my essay on the topic here:
https://farid.ps/articles/victim/_mentality/_scapegoating/_dehumanization/_genocide
Generational trauma. It's probably exactly the same thing.
I'm tired of hearing this. Every population has a segment of straight up fascists in it and the zionist project explicitly selected for those people. Calling it generational trauma is centering the jewishness of the project and doing the same equating that they do to justify themselves. Most jews don't live in 'israel'. Most jews aren't fascist. Most jews don't display this 'generational trauma'. And there are a lot of fascists of other backgrounds that don't have the 'generational trauma' yet exhibit the same attitudes.
So that's not what's going on. They're not victims; they're fascists.
@HiddenLayer555 you have no idea what you are talking about. Go and read a book
What book would you suggest?