EU official warns of antisemitism in European society as fears grow over rising Islamophobia – Europe live
EU official warns of antisemitism in European society as fears grow over rising Islamophobia – Europe live
Michael O’Flaherty, director of agency for fundamental rights, says ‘dramatic moments in our societies trigger antisemitic responses’
I realize I'm bringing a bunch of down votes on myself with the following text, that's ok because I'm still trying to form an opinion on this topic for me.
I always was under the impression that Antisemitism is when someone is against Jews because they're Jews, basically like racism but against specifically Jews. But lately I see the word Antisemitism used very lightly basically if someone is dissatisfied with the actions of the state Israel then they are called Antisemitic.
Perhaps I was misunderstanding the word, so I checked the Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism and there it's not super clear either, but then I found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_antisemitism it appears that I indeed was wrong and that New-Antisemitism seems to be any criticism of the Israeli government.
In this case I'm with the critics which say:
Critics of the concept argue that it is used in practice to silence political debate and freedom of speech regarding the ongoing Israeli–Palestinian conflict and that it trivializes the meaning of antisemitism, by conflating political anti-Zionism and criticism of the Israeli government with racism, condoning violence against Jews, or the Holocaust. Further critical arguments include the inclusion of race within legitimate criticism of Israel to be too narrow.
When it comes to racism it's pretty clear that you can criticize someone for what they do without being racist, but not criticize them for what they are, because then you're racist. On the other hand somehow criticizing a government for their actions which just so happens to be a government which governs a lot of Jews seems to be automatic antisemitism, even though the same criticism applied on other governments seems to not be seen as problematic.
On top of the whole thing I'm also German and in Germany this phenomenon seems to be much more extrem compared to other countries. I understand that this is because of the German guilt.
There are anti-zionists who are also antisemites, but anti-zionism isn't antisemitism itself. Try to have a nuanced conversation about such a heated topic... Lately i've been seeing people just straight up deny antisemitic anti-zionists even exists. And obviously the people who think they are the same thing. It's like people are suddenly unable to understand the concept of venn diagrams.
The problem is at least in Germany that the nuance is literally banned by the government. Demonstrations in support of the Palestinian victims of Israels attacks and blockade are getting banned in fear of antisemitism. Educational entities proclaim that criticism of the shape of the Israeli state are considered antisemitism as much as demands to give back the land of the displaced Palestinians, as these are considered "attacks on the existential right of Israel".
I tried to find that term and it doesn't seem to exist in the english languaged discourse. Also i couldn't find anything that actually gives specific states a specific right to exist. People have the right to exist and be sovereign, but this is not tied to any specific state. And from my understanding the sovereignity of one people cannot be used as a reason to take away the sovereignity of another people.
The people who proudly claim themselves "anti-zionist" IRL are almost always anti-semites if you scratch the surface. Not because anti-zionism is inherently so, but because the term has become a dog-whistle for "I watched too many conspiracy youtube videos".
Also it's a weirdly religiously charged word to use; we don't use a specific word for Russia's goals for Ukraine or China's goals for Tibet or Taiwan. So of course the use of a religiously charged word begets accusations of religious persecution.
"I am against Israel's apartheid state and illegal colonization of the West Bank" -> perfectly sane take
"I am anti-zionist" -> oh my god what kind of cookadoodledoo rant is this motherfucker about to get intoSo yeah, I'd stay clear of "zionism" as a concept entirely. While it is an integral part of the history of Israel, it is not necessary to understand that to criticize Israel's actions in the 21st century. And if you're going to pull put the "but the zionists" card, you better know about domestic Israeli politics a lot better than I do (which if you don't have a reasonable reason to do so like being Israeli, is again a red flag for an obsession with "the jews").
I've been banned from the /de Subreddit for pointing that out as well.
I was in germany last week and was quite surprised to see all the israeli flags around. But from a historical perpective i do get it
Germany is prone to dogmatism. There is a culture of putting things in boxes of right or wrong and then signaling it. Besides, skipping to judgement is easier than trying to unravel complications and risking being questioned in a hot seat. Spirit of being risk-averse.
New antisemitism is not antisemitism. New -ism often means -ism on steroids.
My guy they are quite the textbook example of antisemites https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter
An anti-Semite is not a person that doesn't like Jews, it's a person whom Jews don't like 😉
If I'm not mistaken, Palestinians are also considered Semites. That would make Israelis... anti-Semites?
Both of the things you said are bullshit.
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Anti-semitism (anti-jewish racism) is real. To claim otherwise is to deny a whole history of atrocities, as well as ongoing phenomena. Random Jewish people even completely unrelated to anything to do with Israel are attacked all the time. Neofascists are using clear antisemitic tropes and dogwhistles, even when they are not straight up talking about Jewish space lasers putting fires in California.
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Anti-semitism is the prejudice, systemic and personal, against Jews. While etymology sometimes can clarify nuances in meaning, it is not necessarily semantically meaningful. The word "semitic" is either an entirely linguistic one (semitic languages), i.e., narrowly technical in a scientific field, or it makes reference to outdated pseudo scientific racist theories, in a list that includes things like the Aryan race and the Mediterranean race.
Finally: bullshit like what you wrote is either perpetuated by bona fide antisemite fascists or by people who completely misguidedly think that this way they are somehow helping the Palestinian cause (they are not, in fact, they are hurting it).
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ADL lost a lot of credibility after saying that the overwhelming majority of the Jewish community supports Palestinian genocide.
Which genocide?
There is nothing more anti-semitic than Zionists using the good Jewish name to shield them against criticism of the genocide they are committing.
Israel is like the ISIS for Jews. Dragging their name through the mud while doing things that are completely against their book.
One significant difference, though, is that you can't blame a jewish Israeli for being born in Israel. In that sense they're much different than the Western muslims who moved to ISIS territory.
Maybe Israel shouldn't have existed in 1948, but we have to deal with the fact that it does.
That does of course not excuse West Bank colonialism and apartheid. But if I had a workable solution to that I'd not be writing Lemmy comments on the shitter.
Good. One day they'll realize Zionists are hiding their violence behind their religion.
"as fears grow over rising Islamophobia"
Who exactly fears rising Islamophobia? And given the behavior of the "pro Palestine" people i think they can be glad to not be deported the same day they paint stars of David on the doors of Jews...
We should fear the Islamists being as antisemitic as the Nazis.
Most of us fear getting dragged into some colonial conflict we don't really want to have anything to do with. I have no love for Hamas nor Israel. I feel for the regular people on both sides, maybe a bit more so the long suffering Palestinian civilians (while acknowledging neither side is entirely blameless.)
But they're intent on fighting each other. They've both been told by "God" that this land is theirs. There's no rational way to resolve that.
We should fear the Islamists being as antisemitic as the Nazis.
Yes.
Who exactly fears rising Islamophobia?
Muslims that are not Islamists. And honestly everyone that likes a free society should fear rising hate against groups of people.
How about having people on the train and in restaurants demand you to stand up and make space for them to sit?
How about school children in a holiday camp having to flee under police protection in the middle of the night because the local nazi youth tried to raid their camp?
How about terrorists murdering them openly in the street?
How about having your right to demonstrate be taken away and you being threatend with deportation if you voice your opinion publicly. Especially with deportation to countries like Syria where as a refugee who fled to Europe you can expect to be tortured, murdered and dissappeared.
All of these are the reality muslim people in countries like Germany, or people who are deemed to be muslims, which also affects arabic or arabic looking jews.
The people most happy right now are the local Nazis, who would murder both muslims and jews if they could and are happy to fuel the fire.
So in propping up the islamophobia and peddling to both the Nazis and to Israel in fear of being considered antisemitic, the politics in Germany and similiar countries are also propping up antisemitism.
EDIT: Holy hell i didn't expect there so many people having a problem with facing the real racism in the countries they live in. No wonder fascism is on the rise as the rest looks away. On the receiving end of this will be all minorities, doesn't matter if jewish, muslim, LGBT, disabled or anything else people might take as a "reason" to discriminate against them.