Many voters are weary about a Biden-Trump rematch in 2024. Third parties hope they can fill the gap

Don't vote for a third party. That's just voting for Trump with extra steps.

I think a lot of people thinking about voting third party are going to need reasons TO vote for someone, not reasons to not vote for the other guy. Telling them “it’s just voting for Trump” isn’t going to convince them.
And no, I’m not planning on voting third party. But finger-wagging won’t convince anyone already looking elsewhere.
- If a Trump presidency doesn't scare the shit out of them at this point, then they were already looking for excuses to support him, and "I want someone to vote FOR" is just a stupid excuse.
  Like, I want a gazillion dollars and a private island, but I also don't smear shit on the walls of the public library when I wake up and don't get those things. Anyone who does, just wanted to smear shit on the walls.
- In other words lots of people have an incredibly childish attitude about voting and are completely prepared to throw a little tantrum in the voting booth even if it means fascists get to take over the whole federal government. I'm becoming pretty convinced that people like that are just incapable of rational decision making.
- Nah, the number one reason to vote lately is to prevent Trump from pissing all over democracy. Even Republicans are joining in.
- And no, I’m not planning on voting third party. But finger-wagging won’t convince anyone already looking elsewhere.
  [finger-wagging intensifies]
- It's gonna be republicans making a protest vote. Democrats are in lock step for once
- Republicans are all for third party candidates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election
- Telling them "it's just voting for Trump" isn’t going to convince them.
  They also use that argument against people who don't show up to vote -- the very same people who might show up for a candidate they want to vote for.
  In other words, despite conventional wisdom to the contrary, they might not vote for a two-party candidate anyway.
no, it's not. it's voting against trump by definition.
How about this… don’t take a guy who quietly supports genocide, whose been part of politics longer than I’ve been alive- in fact he’s been a senator for more than twice as long as I’ve been a voter- and make him the canidate.
Because, under your argument, that’s just giving voted to trump!!!
“Vote blue no matter who” is an argument that presupposes a good canidate is in office. Biden is not a good candidate; and the dems need to find somebody else to run him.
We saw the same problem with Hilary. Hilary was not a good canidate and in no way was actually capable of winning. You made the same arguments then as now.
You know Biden is going to lose votes. Why the fuck are you unwilling to consider someone else?
- .
- Biden is a good candidate. He hasn't been impeached yet, unlike his competitor during this same time in his term; he hasn't started a coup on his own country, and the fact that he's experienced at the job he's applying to is actually a good thing (displayed by the passing of both the CHIPs act and the IRA despite not having complete control of congress). Hilary was actually a significantly better candidate than Trump(very obvious in hindsight for many), but Trump had the advantage of Russian support and the fact that it was uncertain how he would act as president. Once voters found out how Trump is as a president, they turned away from him in droves as evidenced by the fact that he's the first president to lose reelection in 20 years, and Republicans have lost every election since Trump was voted in.
  Biden ain't perfect, but man he's a huge upgrade compared to Trump.
- Why the fuck are you unwilling to consider someone else?
  Is this your first election? Incumbency advantage and name recognition. Anyone who understands that and continues to make excuses to not vote for Biden is a Trump supporter. Either intentionally or through sheer privileged ignorance.
- Your choice is between President Biden, who has been a good President or the Antichrist. There isn't anyone else running that is worth my time to look at. Your argument should wait until 2028 when Pete Buttigieg is the top candidate. Probably the most intelligent member of the Federal Government right there.

lol if you think I’ve forgotten about the sewage-chugging fest that was the 45th presidency, you’re out of your fucking mind. I’m not thrilled with Biden’s age, but I am dramatically less fucking thrilled with the conservative’s current shitbag choice. Show me a 3rd party with eye-wateringly powerful support from Democrats, and I’ll certainly consider it. But until then, for as long as conservatives are mouth-frothingly determined to usher in fascism unheralded, I won’t be swayed.

Yup, a bunch of people want to push third party candidates.
They either ignore the fact that under FPtP (First Past the Post), a third party candidate is always a spoiler candidate, or they've been paid off by conservatives to weaken the chances of Democrats doing the bare minimum and holding on to power that they should have been actually using.
Which bring up the second evil of FPtP, as long as conservatives are batshit crazy and openly embracing fascism, all the Democrats have to do, it not be conservatives... And sadly, that's a very high bar for them.
The fix to all of this is, of course, to ditch FPtP voting. My current favorite replacement is called STAR. It's about the single best single winner voting system ever created. (another link)
For anyone else who finds voting systems fascinating, there's an entire wiki devoted to just that. I'll admit to having read most of it over the last few years. I might need better hobbies.
- tl;dr Our system of government sucks and math says you need to vote for Biden.
  I hate it, too, but them's the facts.
- Republicans are pushing third party candidates HARD. If Biden doesn't get 270 electoral votes the Republican House appoints the president. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election
- I recall learning about STAR a while ago, and I agree that both that FPtP sucks ass, and STAR is vastly better. All we’d need to do is get it instituted to replace FPtP, which is the real hurdle.
- I may be off here because this is the first I'm reading about STAR, but it seems worse than instant-runoff ranked-choice voting because of the "top two candidates based on first results are the final two candidates". It seems like ranked-choice but broken to keep the States in a two party system.
  For instance: Let's say there are 4 parties: blue, red, green, and yellow. Let's say the majority of people have red (27%) and blue (26%) as their top pick, so those are automatically #1 and #2. Green is a close third (25%). The remainder (21%) vote for yellow, then green, then red, then blue. STAR would say every other candidate is eliminated except Red and Blue, and then redistribute the other votes. Instant-runoff would say: eliminate yellow and redistribute based off their second choice. In this example, all those votes would switch to green and green would become first. Then blue would be eliminated, those votes redistributed, and then you'd have to see what would happen. Instant-runoff to me allows for the opportunity for a meeting in the middle - everyone potentially agreeing on their second choice; while STAR seems like it will just continue to encourage people to put their primary pick up top.
- Or you ditch direct presidential elections altogether, vote for congress with a proportional vote and let them decide who's gonna be president. That way you'll force the (now more than 2) parties to form coalitions and cooperate.
Show me a 3rd party with eye-wateringly powerful support from Democrats
How large is this eye-watering powerful support among Democrats? 50 percent? 80 percent? 100 percent? Who will in the election in those cases?
I’m not thrilled with Biden’s age
I don't get this when his opponent is less than 4 years younger than him.

During almost any other election, I'd be all sorts of in favor of 3rd party candidates. But I'm also willing to acknowledge the reality of the situation, and the choices are this:

Joseph R. Biden, Jr.
Donald J. Trump.
~~A Third Party Candidate~~ Donald J. Trump
~~Stay Home~~ Donald J. Trump
~~A Write-in Candidate~~ Donald J. Trump

That's it. Those are your options. Third party candidates have exactly zero chance in our political system in today's hyper-partisan environment. If you are voting for anybody other than Biden, or opting not to vote at all, you're essentially giving your vote to Trump. All of these people refusing to put support behind Biden because he's too old, or because of Israel, or whatever, refuse to accept that the alternative is exponentially worse for them.

It's Biden or Trump. There is no choice C. And in the immortal words of Rush, If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

All of these people refusing to put support behind Biden because he’s too old, or because of Israel, or whatever, refuse to accept that the alternative is exponentially worse for them.
Ok. So you've pointed out the reality of the situation. How do we proceed? How do we get them back? "Trump is worse than Biden, moron!!!!" hasn't done the trick. If we need their votes, how do we get their votes?
If we don't need their votes, we don't get to retroactively need their votes if we need someone to blame for a loss, either.
- If Trump wins, you stop investing your money, pull it completely out of the bank, do not buy anything at all beyond basic needs. You want the economy to implode and your investments are safe at home. Beyond that you can't do much else.
- If we need their votes, how do we get their votes?
  In my opinion, the Democrats need to work on broadly popular legislation, like marijuana legalization. Try to push it through, and if it fails, which it probably would in the house, they need to make a stink over it, and then use that for campaign ads, with the promise that if they win all 3 branches next election, they will make it happen. Then they actually need to do that, rather than waffling like they have in the past.
- Never claimed to have any of the answers to that.
Yeah the choice you're misrepresenting is its own choice. The choice to not participate, or to protest the incumbent. Unless you tick the box next to trump you're not voting for trump. If Biden wants support he has to earn it like everyone else. Blame all the idiots voting for trump, blame the DNC for shilling trump into the Whitehouse in 2016, or blame the two party system for creating this scenario sure, but blaming the people on the fringe trying to vote their conscious is just reinforcing the system that got us in this mess.
- Ex Republican here. We loved people like you. We joked about it constantly. A non voter is seen as a Republican vote because it meant we won in the end. Republican voters sort of understand on some level that they are the minority so they see non or protest voters as a victory.
  You vote Republican by not voting if you were planning on voting Democratic. It's that simple, no nuance needed.
  I blame you directly if Donald wins this time.
- Option 1 - eat pizza. Option 2 - eat burritos. Option 3 - eat burgers. Option 4 - eat shit.
  There are 5 people in your family and 2 of them are die hard shit eaters and 1 die hard burger eater. If you vote for a burrito, pizza, or don't vote you are eating shit.
- What they are ignoring is that if the orange blob is able to do his worst, their very lives may be at stake.

Third parties should sit it out until trump is convicted and behind bars. If the third party candidates are serious about the country, they'd recognize the danger that orange moron poses and do just that.

People do realize that being behind bars does nothing to stop someone from serving in an elected office, right?
- True but it would definitely hinder his ability to hold his stupid rallies and what have you.

It's always funny to me when these articles claim dems are worried about this No Labels group. It's kinda asinine. That's just not the kinda thing that appeals to dems that much. Makes me almost certain it's just someone writing that kinda wants dems to be worried.

We, honestly, kinda like labels. They're terribly convenient. Like, when you run into a Jewish-hating, militaristic, strong ethno-state type individual, it's just really nice if there can just be this one word that can be used to describe that person. Because, y'know, "Jewish-hating militaristic ethno-state individual" is just a pain in the ass to use.

Now, certain types really don't like labels. They like to whine about identity politics for instance. I think they will like this party.

Do they mean weary, or do they mean wary?

Weary means worn down (it's literally the "wear" as in "wear and tear" with a y on the end to make an adjective), usually signifying tiredness or apathy.

Wary means overly aware (it's literally the "ware" as in "aware" with a y on the end to make an adjective), usually signifying nervousness or apprehension.

Given the context, they could mean either. Or both.

Though for orthographic reasons, the e is dropped. I see you, fellow pedants.

Democrats need to appeal to people who are considering leaving for third parties before they lose them.

This is a controversial statement.

Simply blame the voters for not feeling oblogated enough to pick your party until you win the elections of course. Taking responsibility for their own choices just cuts too much into our donor base.

Oh, FFS.

Technically correct. They will find the gap in the elevator shaft and vanish forever.

Yeah, no one is voting-in a 3rd party. That's just not ever going to be a thing, sorry. And if through some miracle, they somehow did get elected, what the fuck are they going to do? Not a fucking thing. In spite of Trump's best efforts, presidents are not dictators. Neither Democrats nor Republicans are going to work with a president who isn't part of their little clubs. They probably couldn't get approval for a new brand of toilet paper in the white house bathrooms, let alone do anything meaningful.

People want fine-tuned success when we're still at broad-stroke level of change required.

This go-around, focus on

all people are people
everyone gets a vote
armed demonstrations get Armed Response
lies get lawsuits
prisoners get at least Geneva Convention-level treatment

Later, we can work on the other things we need. You know, allowing for Texit if they build their walls, eminent-domaining prisons back for cruelty reasons, taxing the wealthy, all that. But now, let's just get the absolute basics in.

I kind of think the 3rd party vote for president is a general election really depends on the state you vote in. If your state is a stronghold for a party and has a candidate that has no chance in losing, I think it makes sense to vote 3rd party if that aligns with your politics. But id voting in a contested battleground state, you have to be more strategic about your vote and be willing to compromise or vote for damage control to prevent the other candidate from winning. I think ideally participating in democracy is an ends in itself regardless of whether your candidate wins or not. All participants in an election should be able to look at results and get a feel for what the voice of the people is, and that does mean knowing what the minority voted for and in what numbers.

Many library-goers are worried about ice on the sidewalk to the front entrance due to the extremely cold temperature. A guy pouring his lukewarm coffee on the ground hopes he can help.

weary means tired, dumbass

Ya don't say!

I think Trump will win and AGI will be created on the same day, and before the end of his term AGI will solve mortality and we can watch Trump and Biden go back and forth for eternity. I can't wait.

Im not supporting this political system anymore. Im voting for whoever is promising ranked choice voting, overturning citizens united, outlawing lobbying, and outlawing all elected officials from investing.

You’ll die before you see a political system that isn’t shit. Do your best to endure and then fix the shit-mess we have.
- When is "and then"?
Primaries? Sure. In the general if you do that you are essentially voting for Trump and/or fascism. Third parties are spoilers 100% of the time until they can actually win. And none of them can right now.
- Gee you know what would really help with that fucked up situation? Ranked choice voting.
Outlawing lobbying? So you want to make it a crime to visit your elected representatives in their office? Is that the kind of world you fantasize about?
Also, how the absolute fuck are you gonna get ranked choice voting enacted by the President?? Did you just arrive from the moon?
- Youre thinking of the historical definition of lobbying, when citizens would wait in lobbies of legislatures to make their case to a legislator. Thats no longer what lobbying means in the US. Its actually a legally distinguished title, lobbyists are a paid position, generally lawyers or former legislators, representing large organizations, and facilitating giving politicians money or gifts to influence their votes. You can write to your congressman, you can call one of their secretaries voicemails, you can attend any town halls they might hold, but youre not a lobbyist and you cannot go have a personal meeting with your congressman like a lobbyist can.
  Im voting on these issues for all elections, not just president. But presidential support is pretty important for any legislation.

the proof that biden isnt the guy isnt exactly his age, but its his age.
its that he apparently lacks the awareness required to understand he needs to fucking retire already... that these ancient political monoliths need to go.

that lack of awareness is whhy he personally is not fit to be president.

then theres the whole reality of 'democrats are conservatives' now, so actual democratic voters have to hold their nose and vote non-fascist while the DNC pretends the party is still relevant to the common man somehow.

its been frustrating to watch for decades democrats fumble the ball at literally every play

Democrats have been winning important recent elections, no?
- yeah, when the choice is 'democrat' or 'fascist' you tend to win some races.
  what sucks has been watching the democrats conservatively do fuck all for 40 years.
Dropping out now is ideal, but he'd be forgoing both incumbency advantage and name recognition. I know why he doesn't drop for a younger person. Also because there are no prominent Democrats with enough name recognition right now. People can throw stones about why there aren't all day long but at this point it's too late.
You’re not wrong about the democrats fumbling all the time; but at least they aren’t fascists.
- but at least they aren’t fascists.
  Second worst to fascism shouldn't be the best we can ever hope for.