United Scams of Assholes
United Scams of Assholes
Security deposits should be held by the municipality. Should the landlord wish to claim it, they can prove their case in court.
Fuck the status quo forever. Unforgivable.
This is literally how it works in other parts of the world - do you guys just have to trust that your landlord isn't going to decide that they'd rather just keep your money at the end of the lease?
In NZ, the landlord is required to lodge the bond with a government agency, and in cases where there is a dispute a special court will adjudicate and issue binding orders as to how the money is to be divided.
In the US, landlords can basically do whatever they want, and the legal system is designed to keep peasants out.
It's calledFeudalismFreedom.Hmm, 'A special court' possibly gives even too harsh an impression of a tenancy tribunal hearing to the 3rd-party litigation capital of the world! Mine was just over the phone, pre-covid, landlord was no show no answer, got the bond. The legal advice I got leading up to it was free and easy to access. To be fair though, OP is saying the landlord should need to legally justify withholding the bond in court by default, which isn't exactly how it works in NZ, although the effect is similar in most cases.
This is an area of law governed at the state level. Some states are much better than others. Personally, I have not lived in a state that has a 3rd party hold the money (and I'm not sure if any do that). I did rent in a state where any charges that the landlord claims that they shouldn't is met with triple damages. So if they keep $200 instead of the $100 of actual cost to repair something you broke, they owe you $300. It really incentivizes landlords to only charge accurately (e.g., not for standard wear and tear), and generally deposits were much lower there than in other states I've rented.
Lots of states also charge interest on any deposit money not immediately given back to the renter.
Meanwhile, in Japan, you typically give they landlord gift money at the beginning of your contract. Literally money that isn't a deposit on anything, doesn't cover rent--it's just a gift. A mandatory gift which is given in addition to the security deposit and first month's rent.
It's called "key money" in English. Not every rental requires it, but the majority do. Moving in Japan is expensive.
Yeah, key money is explicitly illegal in NZ - the only money you are allowed to collect is a bond of no more than 4 weeks rent (which has to be lodged) and the first weeks rent in advance.
The most common form of shady dealing is that the law requires that tenants leave the house in a "reasonably clean and tidy state" - landlords and the tenancy tribunal don't typically agree on what "clean and tidy" means, so "oh, when we did the hand over inspection we found some places you didn't clean absolutely spotless so we had to hire a cleaner and want to take that out of your bond" - if you question or challenge it they typically withdraw the claim because you were such a good tenant and just this once and not at all cos they are bluffing and know the tribunal would immediately tell them to get bent, but that requires you to a) know your rights and b) be willing to call them on it, and people are typically neither of those things.
Landlords will typically also add something to the rental agreement or whatever requiring you to have the carpets professionally cleaned before you leave - the tribunal has repeatedly held that this is unreasonable to require and as long as the carpets are clean then the landlord doesn't get to dictate how they were cleaned. Doesn't stop letting agents asking to see a receipt.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/security_deposit
Basically yes.
Depends on the city and state. Plenty of places require deposits placed into escrow exactly for these purposes.
In my state the landlord is required to pay the security deposit back with basic interest that tracks savings account rates.
It’s not much, but there are laws in place, and more and more consumer protection laws put it place.
The USA was created by capitalism. We’re still going through a LOT of growing pains. Hopefully we’ll get there.
Same for the UK but also fuck you the landlord is going to get most of it anyway and if you complain we will give you back £50 to shut you up.
Hmm, ‘A special court’ possibly gives even too harsh an impression of a tenancy tribunal hearing to the 3rd-party litigation capital of the world! Mine was just over the phone, pre-covid, landlord was no show no answer, got the bond. The legal advice I got leading up to it was free and easy to access. To be fair though, OP is saying the landlord should need to legally justify withholding the bond in court by default, which isn’t exactly how it works in NZ, although the effect is similar in most cases.
The management agency that leased the house I lived in while I was in college tried to withhold our security deposit because we didn't provide proof of carpet cleaning.
The house had all hardwood floors.
They gave me an itemized receipt where carpet cleaning was the only item on the receipt when I moved out of a place with wood floors. I actually recorded the whole final walk through with the person from the company walking through saying that it was perfectly clean and that I should get my whole deposit back.
When I complained, they said that it wasn't carpet cleaning, it was just regular cleaning billed as carpet cleaning. I said I would take it to small claims court, but I never told them about the recording.
They decided to refund me just enough that the money they kept was equal to the cost of filing a small claims suit.
Shit Post Real Talk:
Never let your landlord steal your deposit. Here's how you prevent this (without using brass knuckles):
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Read your lease before you sign it. Once you've signed it, it's too late to change anything or decide you don't like something in it.
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Keep copies of your lease, and any other document your landlord sends you.
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Do a photo walkthrough before moving anything I to the house. Take lots of pictures of everything. Make sure to get good photos of pre-existing damage.
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Don't fuck up the house, beyond regular wear and tear. You ever get so mad you want to punch a hole in the wall? Well don't. Go to therapy instead. And if you do punch a hole in the wall, either fix it or expect that your landlord is going to take it out of your deposit. You get the point.
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Follow the "move out" conditions of of your lease to the "T". If something is supposed to be clean, clean it. If something is supposed to be replaced, replace it. If you don't like having to clean or replace something that's required in the lease, then you should have paid more attention to step 1.
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Do a photo walkthrough after you have completely moved out and every move out condition of your lease has been met. Take pictures of everything.
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Retain all photos and documentation until your deposit has been fully refunded.
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Do not accept a partial refund. Don't sign the check. Don't deposit it.
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If the landlord tries to steal your deposit, communicate your objections in writing. Retain copies of all communication.
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If the landlord still refuses to refund the full amount and you have followed all the prior steps, march right on down to your local district court clerks office and ask to file a suit in small claims court (assuming your state has a small claims division). They will ask you to fill out a few forms and pay the court fees. Then, the sheriff will serve your landlord with a summons and the clerk will notify you of the hearing date.
If your landlord is smart, they will settle. If not, go to the hearing, present your evidence to the judge and if you did everything right, get a judgement in your favor. You won't need a lawyer as lawyers are typically not permitted in small claims.
The one and only time I had to do this, I didn't do it because I needed the money. I did it because I knew that I wasn't the first person they tried to fuck over. I was just the first person to fight back and I hoped maybe next time they would think twice about stealing money from their tenants.
And if this fails you can still use the brass knuckles, plus rob them too.
Crazy that you have to go to court over it (I assume this is for the US). Here in the UK the deposit has to be secured by a third party independent organisation. So you follow everything you said, but step 10 becomes "submit your evidence on a website" and the landlord has no power over the verdict. I had to do it once and the landlord immediately conceded without even sending them their version of the story.
You can look at any financial interaction in the US and ask that same thing, "why is it idiotic and heavily in favor of the person with capital?"
I hear in some states you can get triple if it has to go to the courts. That's better. There should be a massive downside to stealing a deposit. I don't like if it's a pain in the ass for the victim but then they can only get what was due in the first place.
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Here in Germany you deposit it in a bank and not one party alone can access it. It's called "social law", not "socialism". Many things broken here, that one thing isn't.
Works like that in Belgium as well.
France trusts that people will be nice but if landlords play dumb there's 10% interest per month after one month, and it can be expedited in small claims court if you prove bad faith and/or fraud.
Another reason why, if any type of landlord exists, they should be an actual person who lives within what I affectionately call face-punching distance.
You can't punch an anonymous conglomerate of soulless suits.
That is how it works - https://www.gov.uk/deposit-protection-schemes-and-landlords
... in the UK. And thank goodness.
Once again wikihow is incorrect.
The best way is a baseball bat
A bat is harder to hide.
But you have plausible deniability when it's found during a search! (Do your lawyer a favor and also keep a baseball glove next to it)
My security deposit was returned to me with interest added.
I was told not to paint anything because they do that whenever someone leaves as standard practice.
Sometimes apartments aren't bad.
The fact that yours is the only positive comment about renting in America shows how bad it's gotten though.
"I know you had plants growing and the electricity is expensive for those bulbs. Also the garden was messy during the winter so I'm keeping your security."
...it was a 50w led running on a timer. Get fucked.
That's a temporarily fix.
The best medicine so far is to bring out the guillotine every few hundred years & rebalance the two classes.
It's literally illegal for them to ask for a security deposit here...
Pro tip: When our move-out day approached, we asked our landlord cleaners they used. We hired them to clean up, since they would clean to the LL's specs. They could also provide tips on other things tennants often get dinged on too, so we could address.
Not everyone has cash to hire cleaners, but their rate was about what I usually lose on deposits.
Generally speaking for the US - do a video walk-through on move-in day, and the same when you move out. Do your best to document every single bit of damage that you see when you move in, no matter how small. Do your best to make sure that both are dated in a way that would be more difficult to fake. Be prepared to take your landlord to small-claims court (in most cases it's going to be small claims); amounts over $5000 are likely to be regular court system. Check your contract carefully to see if there are provisions for cleaning on move-out, whether it's supposed to be a deep-clean, or broom-clean. Keep any receipts from cleaning that you pay for.
Most of the time, as long as you didn't do any damage past normal wear and tear, and you did a good job cleaning, you're going to get your deposit back. Most of the time. Other times, you're going to have to sue.
The only times I have had issues was when I was breaking leases, or serious damage was caused to the apartment (e.g., I had a cat that peed outside the litter box when he was mad, and they apartment needed new subflooring in a few spots).