13% of 2020 Swing State Biden Voters Won’t Be in 2024 Because of Gaza: Polls

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They're going to vote for somebody who is not open about the fact that they are doing a genocide. if that's too high of a bar for dems to clear that is dems problem and nobody else.

"You have tonvote for biden or trumpnwill bimb the rubble" is not an effective campaign strategy. They've concentrated the entire population into rafah and now they're moving into rafah, exactly like every single person criticizing Biden has been screaming they'll do since Biden started quadruppling down on unconditional support.

Trump might actually not be worse for Palestine because at this rate by next January there won't be anybody left to genocide.

Yeah man, we just gotta vote for the right guy and we can fix things

Just one more vote, just one more president, just one more and then we can vote for someone less evil than last time I promise bro

If you believe that then I have a bridge to sell you. Sometimes we have a chance to vote on something that will improve things, but mostly we're lucky if the best we can do is vote to keep things from getting any worse.
- Yeah you're right, I WILL vote for enhanced genocide with a side of pretending to be less fascist! Blue No matter who!
  
  but mostly we're lucky if the best we can do is vote to keep things from getting any worse.
  
  This is EXACTLY WHY things KEEP GETTING WORSE
  
  YOU let them. We all keep letting them, by participating in their rigged system. Year after year they do the same song and dance and we move further from any real change, until people like you are desperate for "things to just not get worse" Can't you see?
  
  You're in an abusive relationship and too afraid to leave your abuser, that's fine who can blame you for being afraid, but you should at least know what you're really doing rather than deluding yourself.
  
  You guys have one chord and think it’s a song.
  
  We keep being right about these things and it is melting your brains.
  
  Because things keep getting worse and Democrats keep running do-nothing losers
  
  You have one ass and pretend it's a mouth
  
  There is never a counterargument and you were no exception.

The war in Ukraine is lost.

Funny, that's what you people said when Russia invaded two years ago.
- No, I'm saying it because the front line is collapsing as we speak. I'm not a Putin-stan lol. I'd be persecuted in Russia.
  
  Much of that was because the US House of Representatives was sitting on its ass for the past how many months? There have been widespread reports of Ukraine rationing ammunition, effectively forcing them to cede ground. The recent passage of aid will start getting basic supplies in quickly. Don't write them off yet.
  
  A bigger reason is that their manpower is depleted from so many dead. Not to mention various defensive lines not getting built.
  
  But at the same time, a lot of those deaths and shattered defensive lines were because of a lack of supplies. I'm not going to make any claims on how much, but when the Russians are firing 5 shells for every 1 shell the Ukrainians fire off, that changes things.
  
  Oh yeah I certainly agree. It definitely matters a lot. I just don't the west has the industrial capacity currently to match that rate. Most of the arms were from deep, old, stockpiles, not fresh production. There'd need to be a pretty big reindustrialization push to get anywhere close.
  
  From what I understand, the West has specialized more in precision ammunition, whereas Russia leans far more on dumb bombs. The industrial capacity is there, but the specific capacity needs adjusting. The West is seeing the first war in a long time involving a near-peer adversary running itself as a war economy, so this is also about getting production lines and supply chains up to the task. During WW2, the US was involved in production on the side of the allies via the Lend-Lease Act before it officially entered the war, so there was time for it to specialize. Not that I am in favor of a world war or escalation, but I don't think it's good to be a sitting duck.
  
  With all due respect, you don't understand shit.
  
  If this war is purely dependent on the US supplying arms and funds to Ukraine, then it's a lost war or at best just a proxy war.
  
  Erg that sucks... I've seen some posts about Russia's new offense but haven't had the chance to look into what's really happening. Guess I should find some time (not that my knowledge will change anything, of course).
  
  While you might not agree with everything on our instance, the weekly news threads are pretty good at collating news and sources as things happen. It’s a decent thing to browse at least.
  
  https://hexbear.net/post/2526093
- Yeah, because short of escalating to WWIII the war was lost from the jump. Is being right about that for two years a bad thing? Is losing two years and a ton of casualties later worth anything?
- And we are still right.
- No?

It would be a lot easier for Democrats to stop supporting Israel if Trump was the one bankrolling the genocide.

Same way they opposed Trumps immigration policy as much as they could but let Biden silently do the exact same thing.
I honestly don't believe that for a minute. You've got people who support Israel because that's what they've been taught to do their whole life, and then you have people actually paying attention to what's been going on and getting called antisemitic for calling out the genocide. Unfortunately the people who are unwilling to change their ways far outnumber the people who care.
- It wouldn't cause all Democrats to flip on Israel, but a lot of Democrats are only supporting Israel because of inertia. Supporting Israel is just normal, so that's what they do. If Trump were president it would force them to rethink how "normal" their support actually is.
  
  You're underestimating how much Democrats hate Trump. If anything could force them to rethink anything it's agreeing with him.
  
  Heh maybe so, but is it really worth the risk of the damage Trump would do if he were in office again? Judging by your nick, I'm sure you're aware of all the harm he's done to the LGBT+ community?
  
  What I'm also aware of is the fascist march against queer folk in the US has been pushing forward unabated under Biden. No matter who wins we'll probably see the first bans on changing gender on birth certificates, we'll probably see a challenge to gay marriage Court jurisprudence, and we'll probably see hate crimes against us continue to rise to new horrible heights.
  
  Under Trump Dems were out in the streets, but Under Biden all the Dems just sit at home and don't do anything about it. Dems only care about queer folk (and Black people and religious minorities and immigrants) when it's politically convenient.
  
  Not in my name.

Cornel West is the best option available, the united states NEEDS an intellectual, philosopher, and social critic in office. It's been an exceptional shit show more recently. Voting in someone with the ability to actually contemplate the consequences of their actions and not just listen to those with the most money is severely needed to get back on the path to being a functional country.

True enough, but until we get some sort of ranked-choice voting, there's no chance of a 3rd party candidate being more than a minor blip in the voting numbers.
- So your suggestion is to keep supporting the same people for ever no matter what they do.
  
  How could that possibly lead to anything changing. You are explicitly sending the message "well keep supporting you no matter what so please do what we want even though it won't make any difference to you if you dont."
  
  Is it worse than allowing someone to be elected who may not let you vote again? Is that the change you want? Literally a guy who tried to overturn a free election?
  
  The only message they were “explicitly” sending was what they actually wrote, which was about the importance of ranked-choice voting. If you feel differently, that’s fine, but it’s not cool to put words in their mouth.
  
  No, my suggestion is to not "waste" your vote on an election where one candidate has already attempted to overthrow democracy but somehow still has a large number of supporters. My county votes somewhere around 85% Dem and the whole state always leans blue so there's no chance of Trump getting the nomination here, and in 2016 I was willing to vote on a 3rd party candidate to show my displeasure over Trump/Clinton... but in 2020 there was no way I was going to give up even one vote against Trump.
  
  When both parties are equally bad, or when there's no doubt who will win anyway, then yeah definitely vote 3rd party and make a statement that we're tired of the same shit. But when the race is this close and one candidate has already stated his plan to do far more damage, then every vote counts and we really need to stick with the candidate who can actually win.
  
  one candidate has already attempted to overthrow democracy
  
  If Democrats actually thought this, Trump (at minimum) would have been in federal prison on Biden's first day in office.
  
  They either don't believe he's a fascist or are utterly incapable of dealing with fascists.
  
  You want to throw someone in jail without a trial or having their day in court? I mean that's exactly what Trump has said he would do to everyone trying to prosecute him, but in a fair society you make a case and take it before a judge. And a case this big requires collecting a ton of evidence and making sure you have an air-tight case to convict. How many court cases does he have against him already? Yeah things are moving a lot slower than most people would like, but pretty much any big case like this would also be moving at a snail's pace. Everybody knows he's guilty, however if you don't get everything just right then he gets away on a technicality.
  
  You want to throw someone in jail without a trial or having their day in court?
  
  Lmao hell yes I do, this happens for literally every serious criminal case (and a bunch of not-so-serious ones, too). If you actually took the idea that Trump is a fascist seriously, you'd be asking why shouldn't he simply have been shot.
  
  Everybody knows he's guilty, however if you don't get everything just right then he gets away on a technicality.
  
  If everybody knows a fascist is a fascist and your only solution is to follow the rules real hard and hope, you are a danger to the country and should be nowhere near the levers of power.
  
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  So anybody who does anything other than vote for biden is "wasting" their vote.
  
  But you're not saying you just have to keep voting for the dems.
  
  Ok
  
  The day can't come soon enough when the general public starts treating you libs with the contempt you deserve.
  
  Please, help trump get elected with that take. I'm sure you will be so much happier with the END of democracy. You don't seem to understand, this is an existential threat and voting a third party is throwing your vote away. Look at recent history of the other 3rd party runs, they spoiled the election for Gore and Hillary. You may not like dems but there is likely no coming back from the alternative.
  
  Look at recent history of the other 3rd party runs, they spoiled the election for Gore and Hillary.
  
  HILLARY PERSONALLY TRIED TO GET TRUMP AS THE GOP'S CANDIDATE
  
  It's still setting in how much this new tarrif on renewables pisses me off and I was just thinking I'm to the point I'm so fucking pissed at Biden and every stupid fucking move he makes that I've moved on from reasonable arguments and at thisnpoint my reaction to somebody trying to tell me Biden isn't a huge piece of ahit is pretty much "suck my fucking cock you dumbshit fascist hypocrite"
  
  So in response to you insisting you're not saying everybody has to vote for biden and then immediatly lecturing me when I pointed out that's what youw are saying
  
  suck my fucking cock you dumbshit fascist hypocrite
  
  I hope Biden and every liberal who supports him gets hit by a bus.
  
  He completely failed so badly the cou try is going to swing to fascism because he literally failed to prevent a better alternative and every one of you useless dumbshit liberals who has been carrying water for him is to blame.
  
  I don't give a shit if you try to say I'm to blame, I've watched for 20 years as you've blown every possible decision, emboldened fascism at every step, and even now are punching left harder than you are punching right.
  
  If you want to win the election stop being cartoonishly inept fascists and stop blaming the people who have been right about everything for the last 30 years while you've fucked them over while simultaneously lecturing them.
  
  I have more contempt for you than chuds because chuds are at least honest that they hate me and were opposed. You dipshits constantly stab me in the back while lecturing me for not thanking you hard enough.
  
  This country deserves nuclear hellfire.
  
  You need to take a deep breath. Are you hungry.... Maybe have a snack?
  
  I could not have come up with a more perfect summary of why not only are dems going to lose but they could not more fully deserve it.
  
  You really think that's a good answer, people voice all the completely legitimate reasons theyre fucking furious with this pathetic excuse of a political party and your answer is to infantalize them.
  
  Seriously when Biden loses and you're telling yourself it's because of people who oppose genocide having morals being a bad thing I want you to remeber this comment.
  
  It's funny how you're complaining about all the things "wrong" with this country, and yet you seem to be advocating for the candidate who wants to take away the rights of everyone who isn't white and obnoxiously rich. Yeah Biden is a fairly typical politician, but what has he done wrong other than Israel? What could he have done better that wasn't immediately blocked by the republicans? Or are you just mad that he's trying to move forward instead of sucking the dick of the oil companies?
  
  Seriously, if you think the "left" is the problem here, then you haven't been paying attention to what's been happening in the House and Senate over the last couple decades. Check out ever bill that would have improved your life, and who voted against it. Check out who was creating those bills that would improve your life, and who was creating bills that benefited big corporations at your expense. Which party is constantly being caught suppressing voters and sponsoring bills to take away your rights? Which party is saying they want less government influence while trying to pass bills to dictate what every can and can't do? If you think the Republican party is doing anything at all with your interests in mind then I can only assume you're a boomer who remembers the party from 70 years ago and hasn't looked at anything they've done since then. Yeah politicians in general suck, but there's only one party actively working to make your life even worse.
  
  I was going to vote for Biden but now I won't because you acted with such brutal incivility. This is the most important election of our lives; democracy itself is on the ballot and you are turning people away from the polls before they've even opened. You are handing Trump the keys to the White House; you are ushering in the dark tide of fascism. Enjoy the next election, you have made it our last.
  
  perfect post. 10/10 No notes
  
  Look at recent history of the other 3rd party runs, they spoiled the election for Gore and Hillary
  
  Shaming the voters because your candidate lost has historically worked very well, very good idea, keep doing that.
  
  Don't worry Dems are doing a way better job campaigning for Trump by openly supporting genocide.
  
  but in 2020 there was no way I was going to give up even one vote against Trump.
  
  Democrats support Trump and the like in the GOP to have propped up extreme opposition and make you think it's your own idea to vote for them as the "lesser evil."
  
  https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-2016-donald-trump-214428
  
  So to take [Jeb] Bush down, Clinton’s team drew up a plan to pump Trump up. Shortly after her kickoff, top aides organized a strategy call, whose agenda included a memo to the Democratic National Committee: “This memo is intended to outline the strategy and goals a potential Hillary Clinton presidential campaign would have regarding the 2016 Republican presidential field,” it read.
  
  “The variety of candidates is a positive here, and many of the lesser known can serve as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right. In this scenario, we don’t want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more ‘Pied Piper’ candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party,” read the memo.
  
  “Pied Piper candidates include, but aren’t limited to:
  
  Ted Cruz
  
  Donald Trump
  
  Ben Carson
  
  We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to [take] them seriously."
  
  ...
  
  An agenda item for top aides’ message planning meeting read, “How do we prevent Bush from bettering himself/how do we maximize Trump and others?"
- You could also recognize that voting is a rigged process and is in no way the limit of political action. You can then choose to do things that are better than using bad game theory to try to get people to vote for a genocide.