The Government Makes It Harder for the Formerly Incarcerated to Be Good Citizens
The Government Makes It Harder for the Formerly Incarcerated to Be Good Citizens
If rehabilitation is the point of our justice system, government agencies shouldn’t punish people who’ve paid their debt, and who are trying to do the right thing.
Altimont owns Carmen’s Corner Store in Hagerstown, Maryland, a community where around 20 percent of people rely on the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) to buy their groceries. But a federal agency decided that Altimont can never accept SNAP as a form of payment at Carmen’s.
That decision isn’t because Altimont has done anything wrong as a business owner, but rather because of unrelated crimes from 2004, for which he’s already served his time.
The United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) permanently bans anyone with drug, alcohol, tobacco, or firearms convictions from participating in the SNAP program—a harsher punishment than the agency dishes out to those who have actually defrauded the program. That’s not just irrational, it’s also unconstitutional, which is why Altimont teamed up with our organization, the Institute for Justice (IJ), to file a federal lawsuit against the agency on Tuesday.
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In the US, all felony convictions come with a lifetime sentence. It's just that the sentence usually only includes prison time at the beginning.
It's pretty fucked up, especially considering how many victimless crimes are felonies.
many victimless crimes are felonies
What examples do you have other than drug abuse? I don't know much about US law, but I'm pretty sure that most felonies have some kind of victim (robbery, arson, assault, etc), or at the least a potential victim (DUI, weapons charges, etc)
But I do agree that the US criminal "justice" system is horribly broken and doesn't seem to prevent people from committing crimes again.
Not american but too much time on Reddit was quick to teach how ingenious americans are in turning misdemeanors into felonies.
The three strikes law is particularly heinous.
Prostitution comes to mind.
Graffiti is a felony.
Hell even nonviolent weapons charges. Like "having a short barreled rifle without paying $200 to the gov," etc. If you're not hurting people or planning to you're alright in my book.
You many other examples do you need? Do you have any inking of how many people have been convicted of felony charges for nonviolent drug offenses alone?
Possessing a gun while being addicted.
Note, it's not while being high. It's while being an addict. It is a felony to pick up a gun if you've ever attended an AA meeting.
It is a felony to possess a gun with the wrong cosmetic feature in several states.
It is a felony to pee in public. A sex registry offense to boot.
Do you want I should go on? I could talk about actual cases of misused charges like resisting arrest. (With no other charges, so why were they being arrested?)
And then there's the ridiculous ease with which felony convictions are had. Just hold someone long enough to threaten their job and rented house and they'll plead to anything to not be homeless after they get out of pre-trial detention.
exactly. i can never pick up a gun in my life because of a stupid policy, after the medical industry screwed me over by hooking me on prescription meth.
How's that now?
There are people who have the same sentence normally reserced for a child molestor because someone was peaking into their windows before the person being peaked on got pants on.
Have you tried... not committing felonies.
As an attorney that worked for Legal Aid in a past life, I offer the observation that people in poverty have an entirely different experience with the legal system than folks who are not desperately poor. A traffic ticket turns into an inescapable pile of court debt, your license gets suspended because of the debt, but you have to drive to get to work. You get caught driving on a suspended license then you miss your first court date because the notice went to an old address that you were evicted from, then you are late to your second court date because your boss wouldn't let you out the door. Then your kid gets sick and you miss another date, but your phone is dead and you can't call the court, and the judge throws your ass in jail for contempt. You miss work, you lose your job. You are absolutely panicking, and possibly incredibly cynical and angry to boot. Once you've got the system looking at you, the attention offers numerous ways to fuck you thirty times to Tuesday, in ways that reach beyond the direct action of the system.
I am not justfying crime, but I have seen enough variations of the aforementioned scenario to understand that for some, this translates into an extremely nihilistic view of a very small world where the morality of certain behavior stops being evaluated.
Again, not excusing responsibility, but just sharing what I've encountered - I've also witnessed people that seem like perfectly well adjusted folks who suddenly commit shockingly criminal acts, and seeing this transformation occur, it is clear that something just isn't right in their head. Don't know if it's nature or nuture, but they're subtly broken and there's probably not a damn thing that can fix them. These folks are far fewer in number than folks driven by worldview shaped by desperation.
These are all just excuses that could either A. Be prevented by not committing the initial crime or B. Making damn sure you do what you are supposed to after. If you are poor, all the more reason to. Get a second job to pay for the shit, borrow money, ask a friend, sell a game. Gtfo of here with all these excuses. You observed lazy people who do the wrong shit. Period.
You libertarians are so silly. Poverty is almost impossible to escape. No amount of bootstrap-pulling will do it.
Lmao I'm a libertarian because I expect people to not commit crimes and pay their fines....? Holy fuck you people are morons.
No, it's the whole 'just don't be poor' part of what you're saying.
Yes, take steps to not be poor. I did it and anyone else can too. The rest is just excuses.
sometimes life deals you a shitty hand. other times you screw up without meaning to. and the moment you do, the whole "don't be poor in the first place" rhetoric doesn't matter because you're trapped by the system.
I never said don't be poor in the first place. You are just making shit up. You can not get trapped by the system by being a law abiding citizen.
you can take steps not to be poor but then get screwed over anyways. be it bad luck or an innocent mistake.
Poverty is impossible to escape?!?! You are such a shitty enabler. Wow man. You know how you escape poverty? Staying in school, trying and working. More than 1 job sometimes when it requires it. What a load of BS.
Never had a parking ticket spiral eh?
$85 + $50 dollar waiver fee if you pay and just say you're guilty. OOOOR
$85 fee if you go to court and lose.
Only $95 in the bank.
Well shit, $50 bucks lets you pay rent, so you take the time. But you have to get exacty $10 of gas, you get to the courtroom, do your best and lose. You gotta pay $85 dollars, and so you do -- except the bank fucked you when you went to got gas, they haven't processes that yet, and the courtroom requires a mandatory $2.95 "convenience fee" so they don't have to take a check... So you pay, and the bank processes your payments dutifully, smallest to largest, but now you're in the hole for $105.
Rent is still coming next week, and you're lucky it's only $300 cause you share a 3 bedroom and sleep on the couch.
To make the $300 dollars you gotta work 2 jobs, because Wallmart makes sure you don't get the full 35 hours each week to qualify for benefits, and McDonalds only calls you to pick up the teenagers shifts on Fridays.
But wait, you're -105 in the bank, so you gotta go call up a bunch of people you know and bug everyone at McDonalds to see if you can cover their shifts. Finally you manage to scrape together 55 hours to pay your rent... but you get dinged on your mobile bill in the middle of that week, and you're out another 40 dollars. You can't cancel the mobile phone since it's your only phone, and hell entertainment, you can't afford a TV or a Netflix plan, that shit's for the rich. You can't even afford to eat where you work...
Finally you get home, after working 7 days of 8 hour shifts you managed to scrape together (4 at wallymart and 3 at mcdonalds) and your bank account is empty, you don't have any money for food, and your snap benefits keep getting denied because you live in a red state...
So you watch youtube shorts, and tiktok doom scroll and try and forget you're hungry....
(I hope my landlord will let me give them 260 until I can cover the rest...)
Waaaaa. Maybe you should work another job instead of sitting on youtube doom scrolling. Or get a better paying job, or read on your own to learn skills, or go to the military. There are tons of options, you are just lazy. If you are only working 8 hours a day when you are starting off, that's your problem right there.
It's not often that I say this, but you sir, are a genuine piece of shit.
And you and all your little friends here are weak. Just want to complain. I'm a fucking Democrat and I find all your bitching to be nauseating. Just a generation of confused fucking babies. I'm a piece of shit of served my country and fought long and hard for every inch of success I've been given amidst being poor, physically and sexually abused, being a former drug and alcohol addict, having ptsd and generalized anxiety disorder due to those circumstances and having my 3 best buds growing up come home from war to all die from lack of mental health help here in the states even tho we were all "heroes". Fuck you you miniscule piece of shit, you don't know what HARD is.
You could start off with a normal day tomorrow, and someone completely unrelated to you could crash in to you and leave you permanently disabled.
You could have a stroke and lose most of your cognitive abilities.
You can't be that happy with your current set up if you're "waaaaa"-ing random people on lemmy. Tell me, what part of that behaviour says "happy and fulfilled person"?
Why would anyone take life advice from an outwardly unhappy person?
You must save a lot of money on dental bills because you have your head shoved so far up your own ass you can see the back of your teeth. Get fucked.
He seems like he might be a bit of a classist dummy
I save a lot of money because I have dental insurance. Lol. Fuckface.
You really don't know how expensive it is to be poor, do you? There's fees on top of fees on top of fees if you can't pay on time or the whole amount at once. The idea of "just don't be poor" doesn't really work. It's like saying if you want to be a billionaire, why aren't you? Just do it.
I was poor. I'm not poor anymore. I went to college, 9/11 happened, went to the military immediately after college, paid off my college via the military, got into IT having never went to college for the field, killed myself to learn, worked 60+ hours for 8 years to excel in the field, now I'm comfortable. I'm working on being a millionaire first ;)
I was poor. I’m not poor anymore.
"It's not a problem for me, so therefore it can't be a problem for anyone"
You... do realize how fucking stupid that sort of "logic" is right? Other people are allowed to have different experiences.
It's not stupid, it's proof that people can do it. You all just want "poor me" instead of taking accountablility and responsibility for your own situations. ANYONE who doesn't have a physical deformity or extremely low IQ can join the military and pick a job that doesn't involve getting your face blown off to get out of poverty. ANYONE. You guys are full of excuses.
Nothing you said contradicts what I said, and is correct.
Now imagine the people that don't have their education paid for by the military.
I didn't at first. I had to get grants, come up with money by working and get a loan. I only got 22000 paid for AFTER I signed up. The rest I just recently finished paying.
"went to college" Lmao GTFO
Also it was a tech school not a university. Pretty affordable and fast track to a job.
Yep grants work and my single mother cosigned for the rest. Hard to imagine when you are lazy and can't do anything for yourself, I know. Got half paid when I joined the military the rest I paid after tho you could go to the miliary first to get there as well , if you weren't all soft as baby shit, that is.
Tell us more about how you don't know the first fucking thing about what it's like to be poor.
He said in another comment that he was poor, and then he went to college... dude doesn't have a clue.
Im poor and went to college. Most of the people in college seem to be poor. I know very poor kids who got full scholarships. I know people deeply in debt from college.
I'm just saying one does not preclude the other.
There's a vast difference between living on a budget and being so poor that loans aren't enough, you didn't finish high school because the family had to eat, and scholarships are laughable for most people.
Eating ramen to afford your on campus housing is not being poor.
Right. These people don't know about loans. Or grants, or paying as you go. I was poor the while way thru college. One night I ate uncooked stuffing for dinner. Lol. It sucked. I lived off of the dollar store and 1 dollar bag of egg noodles, 1 dollar can of spaghetti sauce and butter and salt. Or ghetto pizza (saltines, 1 dab of spaghetti sauce per, sprinkle cheese onto, microwave)
Poverty is not a character flaw
You're ridiculous.
Have you considered the reason I think it's fucked up isn't because it's a problem for me personally? Crazy thought, right?
I was just speaking in general
If we aren't comfortable striking a person's offenses from public record once they're released from prison, then clearly we did a shit job of rehabilitating them and should've kept them locked up for longer.
But see, that's the thing. It's not rehabilitation. It's just punishment. Of course, the punishment doesn't end after they got out of jail. We always have to make sure it continues in as many facets of life as possible because suffering is the point. Make people suffer enough and they'll never do another bad thing ever again. It's perfect. Don't you know suffering churns out happy, productive, well adjusted adults?
When your incarceration system is monetized, a demand is created for prisoners.
Meaning felonies will somehow be gotten out of littering if the cop wants it bad enough