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Well... He did more than that...
He also would join up with one of the male writers (who eventually got fired for sexual harassment stuff) specifically to team up against the female writers.
He was also extremely disrespectful of all of the female members of the crew. It got so bad he was fired from the Witcher AND the DCU movies.
Like yes... He cared a lot about the source material and so he fought for it... But the only people he fought were women and the only people he became friends with were sexually harassing women.
Edit: I'd seen this all multiple places before but doing a quick search here is a source on the most recent round of Netflix and superman stuff
Personally I think a lot of this is overblown. Specifically the not wanting shirtless scenes and stuff is a personal thing that's up to the comfort of the actor. The bits I don't like are harassing women and his previous comments about the MeToo movement which make me far more likely to believe the current accusations against him.
Edit 2:
Hmmmm you got some primary sources for those claims? Not saying you are wrong. It's just the first time I've heard this.
I had a brief look around and these accusations seem to originally come up in a leaked script for an episode of the Duexmoi gossip podcast. Some of the responses to the accusations can be found in this Vulture article, but there's not a lot in it. As they state, "everybody involved in The Witcher is [...] playing nice on the record." So... *shrug*. Very disappointing if true, but no one's confirming anything...
He’s missing the “controversy” section on his Wikipedia. Which is my litmus test of how big are your red flags
Huh? So a lack of mention of controversy with sources to back it up is a red flag to you? Weird.
No, you're reading that backwards somehow. A lack of controversy section shows that there are no good sources and the red flags are not that big.
You’re right, apologies.
Yeah, that Gene Wilder is an asshole because he doesn't have "controversy" in his wiki.
I'd seen this all multiple places before but doing a quick search here is a source on the most recent round of Netflix and superman stuff
Personally I think a lot of this is overblown. Specifically the not wanting shirtless scenes and stuff is a personal thing that's up to the comfort of the actor. The bits I don't like are harassing women and his previous comments about the MeToo movement which make me far more likely to believe the current accusations against him.
posting the same link over and over doesn't really help your case bud
I replied to each comment that asked for a source with a source. Seemed like the best way to make sure everyone that wanted to be notified got notified.
The commenter asked for a primary source, which I'm also interested in. Does one exist?
Yes, I included it in the original comment in an edit but just in case that was missed, I'll also include it here.
This is an excerpt from a podcast in which someone from the set described their experience:
This was also mentioned in the article but honestly they did such a poor job showcasing it I'm not surprised it was missed at all.
The primary source is a leaked podcast script from a podcast run by an anonymous celebrity gossip Instagram account which was posted on reddit. This is basically the journalist equivalent to using 4chan green-text as a citation. The article, which fails to verify anything, is a year and a half old and not a soul related to the production has corroborated any part of it in that time.
No official statement was made about why Cavill is no longer on The Witcher. I wouldn't doubt that he was being difficult on set considering his love of the source material and how little the show respected it. I also wouldn't be surprised to find out his contract just ran out and neither party was interested in renegotiating.
James Gunn has specificly said, on thar record, that Cavill wasn't fired. The next Super Man is just going to be younger. After how badly Black Adam flopped, I'm not surprised they're taking the DCU in a different direction.
So he was, according to one claim, disrespectful to the people who were disrespecting fans and his wishes to make a faithful adaptation.
I see no problems here.
Oh and saying it’s a ‘problem’ that he didn’t want to perform sex scenes for misandrist show runner and writers isn’t a negative. He stood up for himself.
I 100% agree with that last part. I think it's a good thing he stood up for himself and how he wanted to be displayed/treated on screen.
who eventually got fired for sexual harassment stuff
The source you linked as well as the screenshot you posted of the quote both say HR complaints.
You can get complaints for all sorts of things, such as being uncooperative and that being read as disrespectful to a superior or a colleague, for instance, or going behind a superior's or colleague's back, which sounds like exactly what was going on, and since they could not touch the literal star of the show they canned his only ally instead.
Since you said you thought this was blown out of proportion, don't contribute to blowing shit out of proportion.
The blown out of proportion was referring to him not wanting to be sexualized. I don't think it should be held against an actor that they won't want to always be shirtless. That's fine and I respect him for it.
The problem is everything else.
I know, I was pointing out your hypocrisy and selective criticism.
You still have not acknowledged you hallucinated or lied about the "sexual" part of the accusations.
Nowhere in your sources does it mention the writer receiving sexual harassment claims, he was the subject of HR complaints, which if you worked in corporate environments you'd know are both extremely easy to weaponize and don't necessarily have anything sexual about them.
Calling a colleague a dipshit or incompetent in a public setting would be cause for an HR complaint and neither is even remotely sexual.
Thoughts, or will you keep ignoring that?
I don't see hypocrisy in thinking that it's okay for someone not to want to be treated like a sex object while also not liking when that same person treats others differently based on their gender.
These are unrelated criticisms and can stand alone. I think it is a good thing when actors have a say in how they are presented on screen, especially in a sex sense, and that's why intimacy coordinators are a thing and should be more widely used.
As for the second one, you're right. I misremembered a thing I read 2 years ago about someone who isn't the main point of what I read. There isn't much more to it. I'm not perfect, as has been clearly shown throughout this whole conversation. It felt like the lesser of the things brought up since it was a genuine misremembering of what was written and had very little to do with what I was saying.
that same person treats others differently based on their gender.
Yeah, that still needs substantiating.
I disagree with men a lot in my work, almost exclusively in fact, it just so happens the one person who agrees with my takes consistently is also the one woman in my team, does that make me a misandrist?
For all we know based on what happened after the writer was fired, and the batshit garbage they turned season 3 into, the disagreements on treatment of the source material were absolutely warranted (and the fan reaction also mirrored that).
What we have is the word of a bunch of people who fumbled the only big name in their cast because Cavill also happens to have opinions and needed them less than they needed him, versus Cavill who was subsequently recruited for the 40k tv show, another property he's publicly very fond of where he made sure to also be a producer so he can actually steer the process.
Had his complaints and feedback been meritless I don't imagine he'd be given a producer position immediately afterwards.
I'd like to see something more than "trust me people, he was a total gamer chud womanhater for not shutting up while we crashed and burned season 3" before I go ahead with the misogyny route, especially because all we have to that effect is vaguely gesturing at his treatment of a specific group of women, with no actual events or examples that could be refuted or proven and plenty of valid other possible reasons why this could have happened.
Also, in other posts you said he was fired from both Witcher and the DCU and neither claims to have fired him. The DCU halted a bunch of products after the Black Adam flop and he stepped down from Witcher himself, unless you have evidence that is not the official position.
Frankly, it sounds to me like you have a very specific narrative in your head and you're all too happy to amplify it by adding unsubstantiated details to make it feel more real and worse.
I've seen some accusations, which other (also female) members of cast/crew pretty much disprove. So I will echo others - source?
I'd seen this all multiple places before but doing a quick search here is a source on the most recent round of Netflix and superman stuff
Personally I think a lot of this is overblown. Specifically the not wanting shirtless scenes and stuff is a personal thing that's up to the comfort of the actor. The bits I don't like are harassing women and his previous comments about the MeToo movement which make me far more likely to believe the current accusations against him.
Ah, yes. The "toxic gamer" accusations. Yeah. To me that reads like he was not happy with how they handled source material and did his best to fight it (which yeah, not his place to do that, but as someone who also loves Witcher I can relate). And then they tried to spin it as being mysoginyst (they tried so hard to spin itin any way so that he ends up looking bad back then). Also source of the article being Reddit doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.
After these accusations I remember other articles with fellow female cast members at the least saying things about hin as a person that are in complete oposition to the accusations.
Not saying he is a saint, I don't idolize him. But it's hard for me to believe those accusations.
Romantic plots and shirtless scenes are also included in both books and games of the Witcher so him being against those is super weird as well. Romantic plots are pretty core to some of the stories
which yeah, not his place to do that, but as someone who also loves Witcher I can relate
Why wouldn't it be his place to argue for more respect for the source material? or simply a better script?! It is his face in there, instead of an awesome show, we got, well... whatever the hell that was and his face is attached to it forever.
I have no idea about show business but if I sign up to play Dracula and now they tell me the script calls for a Dracula that has no powers and instead is only a genetically diseased person with hardcore anemia, I would probably fight the script as well
From how I see it, he is an actor. He is expected to get a script and act accordingly. Depends on the director and others how open they can be about it and how much freedom the actors get. But I don't talk from experience.
Now as a Witcher fan, I understand Cavill completely. He cared for source materials and got writers and showrunner who didn't. Some writers allegedly even actively didn't like the source material. So of course he would fight it. I can imagine ways that are good, and I can imagine ways that may be stepping out of line from writers perspective.
Most things I saw of him being a great cast member were earlier in his career and this seems to be a very recent thing to happen. I don't think he's always been bad in any respect but people do change overtime and America has been increasingly radicalized recently. I'm not surprised that this has happened and it could happen to anyone.
I'm pretty sure the cast members reactions I remember were from Witcher.
Also, if you are a fan of the source material and writers are not (and some actively mock it, allegedly) - I can imagine you being a dick to them - no matter their gender
You call it overblown and disapprove... But then keep posting the questionable source.
This is how you get bots to pick up links, and how you start rumors.
I think them being upset about an actor being uncomfortable always being sexualized is overblown.
I think the parts about him harassing women are fine.
No they are not fine in any sense. If they are true, they are awful, but in order to prove them, we need a better source. A PRIMARY source. Some corroborating evidence. Give us something more than 3 layers of hearsay which would be beyond inadmissible in court.
Although you are reciting a source, your source is so indirect and unproven that you're basically dancing on the line of defamation (although of course no one could give enough of a shit to sue).
If you alledge those things, you better have a good reason and at least a handful of evidence. Otherwise you are doing a disservice to every woman out there trying to prove awful allegations, because she has to fight all the mistrust you are building up.
That's the first I've heard of that. Don't think he was fired from DCU, Gunn just wanted a fresh start is what I heard.
It got so bad he was fired from the Witcher AND the DCU movies.
Not sure what happened there but this is plain false... he left the witcher after at least 2 years of complaining the writers were throwing away the source material (the reason he signed on for) to actually go to back to DC since they expected the Black Adam movie to reboot the DCU. When Black Adam bombed spectacularly, any future DCU plans got tossed.
The show was a different story from the books and game, what source material were they supposed to follow? Tell the same story again? That was not what they proposed or were greenlit for? And he signed on for THAT, not whatever he claimed after, since that’s not what they were doing. So if he thought they were doing an exact reenactment of the books or games, maybe he should read his contracts or the proposal for the shows? This is twice now he’s done this.
He was canned from two different places for refusing to understand they are telling different stories that can’t be identical to the source material. How else do you deal with someone like that? Especially when he started dragging fans into harassing the show runners.
People defend him, since they don’t understand what was going on, but he’s louder and more famous, so he gets his way, until he doesn’t. Maybe the fact his has happened more than once should give people pause…?
Huh? I only watched until season 2 but so far the story was from the books. Just skipping some stuff and remixing it badly.
Uhh what? The skeleton is the same, but it’s an entirely different story, nothings the same, which is what upset cavil since he wanted a retelling of the books.
What in specific can you pinpoint that’s the same between the show and books? It only started to somewhat resemble the books in further seasons because of the shit Cavill pulled.
Why the obvious lie?
The show was a different story from the books and game, what source material were they supposed to follow?
You said it yourself, the story from the books and game
Tell the same story again?
This is called an adapted script
That was not what they proposed or were greenlit for? And he signed on for THAT
Please provide source for either of these claims. Contracts are often signed when there isn't even a complete team, let along an adapted script ready
How else do you deal with someone like that? Especially when he started dragging fans into harassing the show runners.
Yeah, what a monster, trying to give fans what they want to watch instead of the majestic crap they produced which was universally hated by those who knew the franchise from before
And by the way, I'm not aware of what other instance you talk about
They did, they used the skeleton to tell a different story, but cavil didn’t like it wasn’t a 1:1 retelling, yet no one wants to discuss how the games weren’t either. Yet he was arguing for content from both…? How does that make sense. He says follow the source content, than points at both? Make that make sense, if you’ve actually read the books and played the game and know they aren’t remotely the same thing.
Dude didn’t even know what friggen lore he wanted himself, and was forcing the showrunners to do a story they never intended.
Maybe read some article about this, this isn’t new information, but sure, claim ignorance I guess. He was fired from DC for more or less the same arguments about source material, while they were telling their own story.
You seem to know what an “adapted script” is, and you understand the showtellers were doing that… but Cavill fighting for source material confuses you? What…? Lmfao you can’t have both… fucking he’ll. He wanted a retelling, the show runners didn’t, how is this so hard to comprehend, when you seem to udnerstand most of this?
Still waiting on all those sources that put you in the high horse of knowledge that is The Witcher tv series
The fact that season 1 has nothing to do with the books, if you’ve read them… should be the biggest enough hint. But it’s painfully obvious you haven’t and are just perpetuating the same shit Cavill did. Find your own thing yikes.
But how many Articles do you want
Maybe why don’t you explain what’s the same between them? Because most people agree, they aren’t the same story, and if it was… do you think cavil would be fighting for it to be the same…? Your argument doesn’t even work lmfao. You also made the original claim, so the onus is on you, but I am going to do better than I know you will and I provided some sources, can you…?
If it followed script like your claiming… what would cavils complaint be…?
I know the source material is different than the garbage show.
What you need to prove is that Cavil knew this going in and then changed his mind. This is your entire premise to show Cavil is in the wrong here
The first article I linked explained it pretty good, but apparently you couldn’t be assed to read it, but that’s about par for the course when anyone tries discussing this. Cavill can’t be wrong, yet he literally said he was, but he still asininely pushed for “source material”, which was both books and video game.
“And for me, that’s always a little bit heartbreaking, because I love the lore, and I love the material so much. I wish we could fit it all in, but with the structure of an eight-hour series, you can’t.”
Of course he knew the limitations of the media, he would be daft not to, and you’re even worse for not comprehending this, doubly so when asked for a source and provided it, you still beak off.
This is common knowledge at this point, I’m sorry your head is buried in the sand, or your precious actor is actually not in the right. Shit happens dude lmfao, but maybe stop blindly defending someone, especially a repeat offender.
The onus would actually be on you, you made a claim first, so let’s your sources that he didn’t know it wasn’t a 1:1, I provided the information you requested, and even a quote from him saying he knew the limitations. Thats should exceed your requirements, so can we have some reciprocation? Or did I hit the nail on the head already? I went above and beyond, you made the original claim, you can atleast have the decency now to back it up.
Lol you must be like 12 to care this deeply about such bullshit
You asked for sources, and now insult me for providing what you asked for and asking for some back since your claim is more bullshit? The fuck is wrong with you lol.
It also takes two to tango, you asked for stuff, I provided, you balked, so who’s the adult and who’s the child here? If I’m a child, you’re objectively worse, so where does that put you? Oh right, a troll, which isn’t surprising, since you’ve provided nothing of substance, but asked and received and are now being a petulant child. What a shocker.
Maybe read some article about this, this isn’t new information, but sure, claim ignorance I guess.
Makes claims, provides ZERO fucking links or sources, issues homework instead.
I provided sources, even though I really didn’t have to.
They made claims first, so the onus is on them, I did them a solid and provided sources, that even contradict their claims, and they provided nothing. And have now called me a child for doing what they wanted, yeah… I’m in the wrong here….
But sure, beak off at ME I guess? lol.
Source?
Their bias and a wildly suspicious source that's pretty much the podcast my best friend once removed's half-sister's uncle listens to
I'm just sayin' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'd seen this all multiple places before but doing a quick search here is a source on the most recent round of Netflix and superman stuff
Personally I think a lot of this is overblown. Specifically the not wanting shirtless scenes and stuff is a personal thing that's up to the comfort of the actor. The bits I don't like are harassing women and his previous comments about the MeToo movement which make me far more likely to believe the current accusations against him.
LOL this is the fourth "I have seen it in multiple places" yet keep posting the same sketchy source over and over....
And now you've seen it (that same one anonymous unsubstantiated source) in multiple places too!
Replying to everyone who asked with a source with the source was the best way to make sure everyone who wanted to be notified was notified. Not everyone is going to return to the original comment to look for an edit.
K. First time seeing this site and the media bias is more like bullshit clickbait. Dude is passionate about source material and willing to walk when they make that bullshit season 3.
Admittedly I did not do a lot of digging for the best source and instead just skimmed and saw it summarizing the stuff I'd heard before. The original information comes from a podcast but instead of sourcing the podcast, the article decided to source a reddit thread which was just a transcript of the podcast... Bad journalism and I should've found a better source to site here. Either way, the original transcript is shown in the article.
Don't spread rumors about people without proof
I mean the original transcript is in the article and it's a primary source. I just sent a link that poorly sourced the original podcast. It's not really a lack of proof and more so that the article is poorly displaying the proof we have.
Yeah sorry I got heated I was having a bad moment and overblew things in my head.
You're all good :D this turned into a much more heated conversation in general and I also apologize for starting it. I should've included the primary source in the original message in the first place either way.
I'm also sorry this turned out the way it did and I really appreciate and accept your apology. Lemmy is small enough that it's very possible we'll be seeing each other's names in the future (and probably often) and I want you to know that I will be thinking highly of you when I do.
Were the only people disrespecting the source material those same women?
Article they list as a source certainly suggests that.
Why would you link to an article that just discusses things said on Reddit instead of just linking directly to the thread?
Honestly I'm not sure why it brings up reddit at all since the reddit thread it's sourcing is just a link to the podcast that started it all. They should've just linked to the podcast?? Idk bad sourcing on the articles end.
Here's the transcript directly
Seems like everyone agrees that Netflix and the writers behind the show weren't following the source material very well and were making a lot of bad decisions in terms of show direction.
Cavill is known to want to keep things close to the source material. It seems implied that the "showrunner" and writers were against that attitude, so when he started pushing back, he gets called a misogynist and g*mer for trying redirect the show.
Sounds to me like film industry bullshit and trying to redirect the narrative from someone wanting the show to stay accurate to him being misogynistic simply because he was contradicting a woman.
You're so full of shit, it's actually impressive.
I would like to read more about this but I don't want to have to sift through BS. Link?
Source: trust me, bro!
I'd seen this all multiple places before but doing a quick search here is a source on the most recent round of Netflix and superman stuff
Personally I think a lot of this is overblown. Specifically the not wanting shirtless scenes and stuff is a personal thing that's up to the comfort of the actor. The bits I don't like are harassing women and his previous comments about the MeToo movement which make me far more likely to believe the current accusations against him.
Didn't he go straight from Witcher to Justice League to Mission Impossible?
It was actually DC -> MI -> Witcher technically.
Careful, the fanboys don't like that sorta talk
Not to mention the show was supposed to be a different story from the books AND game which are vastly different already (which no one seems to comprehend when talking about this topic) he got fans and everyone else to capitulate his demands to show runners that it meet source material. How is a unique story supposed to meet source material…?
The guy is delusional and it’s cost him roles, yet his rabid fanbase defends him relentlessly since they refuse to educate themselves on anything he spews.
How was it a unique story, when everything happens in the books? The head writer and producers just tried, and failed, to be better than the original by adding useless confusion and killing important characters. The games are different in that they play after the books and extend the world.
I asked you in another comment and you ignored me, but what’s the same between the books and show? The skeleton is the same, but most characters, events and places are different.
Why the obvious lie? You just expecting sympathy from other people who haven’t read the source materials and assume they all tell the same thing? When the don’t.
I didn't ignore you I just don't spend all time in the app. I got no commitment to reply in any predefined timeframe. As I said I stopped watching in season 2. Up to that point everything is the same. Except the story of ciri and the forest is moved to a later point, I believe in the books it's before the fall of cintra. It is not a different story just because you change outfits.