Trying to build viable third parties by voting for them in presidential elections is like trying to build a third door in your house by repeatedly walking into the wall where you want the door to be.
Trying to build viable third parties by voting for them in presidential elections is like trying to build a third door in your house by repeatedly walking into the wall where you want the door to be.
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But but, building a real third party from the ground up in local elections and/or changing our voting system from first past the post takes a lot of time and real effort. That's a lot of hard work. It's a lot harder than just showing up to one election every 4 years and casting a vote that makes you feel like you're special and smarter than everyone else.
Yeah, I've recently talked with my therapist about this choice between very slow, very hard work and sitting on my butt dreaming. And about the idea that it's better to avoid action than to act, if I'm not sure I'll act right. And how it apparently came to me in my teens, when I've been doing martial arts for some time, girls would smile at me often, and in general I thought I might be too stupid and happy and there should be something smarter. That 'smarter' was, of course, just another teenage idea of being wise and not like everyone else. Fucked up my life for a decade.
By the way, people who'd be removed and theoretical and talk about some imagined third movement created via some magic other than voting - would be called 'idiots' in ancient Athens. Because they are on the side of an idea, not real politics. Then it became a rude word.
Any such decision to try and find a smart shortcut, or that it's better to wait and see how it goes instead of sweating, - are all wrong and are exactly what propaganda works for. Being honest is smarter than being dishonest. And voting for the party most fitting your ideals is smarter than for the lesser evil.
Tell that to all the people who will be hurt if that protest vote enables someone worse.
Voting for the party that is consciously using the other one as a boogeyman will enable someone worse with no doubt. They are both worse.
And before the actual ballots are being cast, the public opinion sending right signals to Dems would reduce that risk.
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That is the most selfish possible way to approach life. You're not the main character, other people's lives are at stake. Voting a specific way just to make yourself feel better knowing you are endangering others by doing so is not some morally superior choice.
Risking letting someone win who conspired to overthrow an election and who has promised his supporters that if they elect him this time they won't have to vote ever again. Selfish naive children. Fuck Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and the rest of the Democratic machine, at least you'll be able to vote again and you might actually get to negotiate for things that make people's lives better.
You’re not the main character,
You are. You are also responsible for your own choices whether you admit it or not.
That is the most selfish possible way to approach life.
If taking responsibility is selfish, then selfishness is a virtue.
at least you’ll be able to vote again and you might actually get to negotiate for things that make people’s lives better.
They are already threatening you with Trump if you don't vote for them and don't want to compromise. So about that "you'll be able to vote again" - I think that's true, but since that threat works, that'll likely be the same kind of choice over and over. When you agree to get owned for protection, you usually don't get owned just once.
Selfish naive children.
For fuck's sake, are you 16?
How can a grown person be that arrogant without knowing shit about game theory?
other people's lives are at stake.
endangering others
Including my own. I'm in Trump's crosshairs. I recognize that reality and actually largely agree with the things you're saying but while my life is at risk, Palestinians are literally getting slaughtered with America's help and while
you might actually get to negotiate for things that make people's lives better.
is true for some things, I don't think the Democratic machine is willing to negotiate on Israel.
I understand harm reduction in general, how insane Trump is, and how useless it is for third parties to pop up every four years saying "vote for us" without doing anything in between presidential elections to move the needle, but when the Dems are supposed to be progressive but aren't and are instead just fascism lite/imperialism full while constantly capitulating to right wing ideas, it's a lot harder to bring myself to even vote at all.
Maybe it's naive and impractical to not vote Harris. Even though my own life is essentially on the ballet, can you understand my position of how frustrating and fucked everything feels and how much it feels like my vote isn't actually a choice at all and makes no difference difference how fast we're diving head first into a future that isn't a future I want to exist in one way or the other?
People who proport to support Palestine, but advocate actions that allow a win for Donald "I'm the best king of Israel ever" Trump and his "Finish them" Israeli bomb-signing Republican party aren't being honest with the people they're debating with.
It is utterly unprincipled republicanism when people PRETEND to care and then advocate allowing the fascist KKK racist maniac genocidal republican party to win.
This post was reported. I think the objection would be to the second paragraph where it sounds like you are making a claim about the character of the person.
We do want this to be an inviting place where people can share what they are passionate about. Everyone is free to attack each other's opinions and stances. However, there are rules against attacking individuals and groups of people.
Not only is it against the rules but there are much more effective methods of arguing. Ad hominem attacks are poor at persuasion.
Do you mind rewriting the second paragraph to focus on the arguments made in the prior comment, rather than the character of the person?
Edited. Criticised a mode of debate rather than an individual.
Thank you! And thank you for being a part of this community!
Except Trump is not the one currently in power and can't do much, while Democrats are so I'm scrutinizing them for not doing anything about a genocide while in power. I obviously don't want Trump to win but I hate this idea you have that someone is automatically a Trump supporter for not actively and unconditionally supporting Democrats and condemning non-voters, uncommitted, and third party voters.
I hate this idea that it's somehow principled to allow the fascist to win. How can you tell the difference between a right wing troll trying to let their KKK supporting maniac destroy America, Palestine and Ukraine, and a left wing person with principled objections who wants to vote against Harris? You can't. They're advocating the same actions with the same outcomes. I can't tell which you are, but please wake up to the real world or shut up trolling people who actually care.
hate this idea that it’s somehow principled to allow the fascist to win.
i hate to break it to you, but the secret service is allowing him to win. the democrat-run justice department is allowing him to win. you are allowing him to win. you could stop him. but you don't really believe he's a threat. you're just berating people who won't join your team.
.ml user pretends they don't understand basic common sense regarding the US election. News at 11.
"I'm just asking questions!"
Don't be an ass. It may have been a stupid and naive question but don't shit on me just for daring to ask and get other people's thoughts on it.
You asked in bad faith.
You reap what you sow.
Yet another .ml user pushing bad takes.
Being an ml user has nothing to do with my bad takes. I can do that just fine on my own without being grouped with an entire instance of users, thank you very much.
Doubling down on being a troll, that's cute.
I'm glad my cuteness has finally been recognized but my original question was serious and out of curiosity. At the moment the only trolling I'm doing is exclusively for you, my admirer.
You're bad at trolling.
Sure thing, ml troll
IT IS NEVER THE FAULT OF "my guy"
stupid peasants should be falling inline!
I don't have "a guy" I'm just not a naive child.
Are "approved" political opinions the new standard for adulthood?
DNC please assign me a komissar 🤡
No, but it takes a child to feel morally superior when they enabled people to hurt others because the other option was imperfect.
Dude your option is actively, currently hurting people! That's not "imperfect", it's literally Hitler levels of supporting a genocide. Talk about selfish lol.
Wtf is this even supposed to mean?
"Vote for my guy OR you will hurt kittens"
Vote the regime is the vote to hurt people. So why are you trying to hurt us?
Man, you must be buying straw in bulk. All these strawmen you're building in this thread...
Y'all have not provided a good counter argument besides saying we have to vote my guy because my guy is good.
Fear mongering and shaming is not a valid argument BTW.
I honestly tried to read and understand this but it really sounds like a bunch of nonsense.
Well, I had migraine. But it's rather that your personality is a bunch of nonsense.
The first paragraph is not very readable, but it's the least important one.
The second one - I think you could find it in yourself to understand it, so being dumb doesn't excuse you.
The third one - I'm certain you understood it. You might consider yourself very smart and cynical, only you're not.
None of that has anything to do with the topic at hand.
It's my choice to make whether that is true.
That's not how reality works, I'm afraid.
That is exactly how subjective reality works. Everything is interconnected, so whether something is relevant to some subject is purely a matter of choice.
Except some people of questionable intelligence and culture consider their choice on that matter more important than that of others.
No. It objectively has nothing to do with the post.
You make believing it does is childish.
"Objectively" doesn't mean what you think it does, and calling others childish makes adequate people suspect you are a teen.
Save it for your therapist
Doesn't add anything to the discussion.
Exactly. So don't use this as your therapy session.
Neither does this, has nobody told you yet you are not sufficiently intelligent to give advice of this kind?