Thousands of Jewish Americans and Allies Demand Cease-Fire in Gaza
Thousands of Jewish Americans and Allies Demand Cease-Fire in Gaza
"We as American Jews believe that 'never again' means never again for anyone, and that includes Palestinians," said Jewish Voice for Peace.
You're viewing a single thread.
"We as American Jews believe that 'never again' means never again for anyone, and that includes Palestinians," said JVP, referring to the refrain repeated by the Jewish American community regarding the need to prevent genocide. "'Never again' is this very moment."
Something so common sense will surely fall on deaf ears.
Didn't you know? Those American Jews are being antisemitic for daring to oppose genocide.
This is not genocide. The Israeli army has a massive amount of weapons with which it could commit genocide if it truly wanted to. The situation is horrible and the loss of civilians lives is also horrible but this is not genocide. Misusing that term risks it losing all meaning.
Go back and read the UN Convention on Genocide, as this most certainly is that. Unquestionably.
If it’s genocide why is the population of Palestinians GROWING?
Where in the definition of genocide does the attempt have to be successful before you call it genocide or try stop it?
Israel has nuclear weapons and f16s. If they tried to commit genocide they would succeed. If Palestinians had those weapons, they would literally commit genocide immediately as it is stated in Hamas’ founding charter.
Israel is dependent on foreign aid, do you think their allies wouldn't notice if they bombed and killed millions of people at once? There would be a response from other countries in the area as well. Even the Nazis took a lot of effort to hide the holocaust during the execution of it. Where in Hamas' founding charter does it state "we will commit genocide if we have the power."? And even if it did, Hamas is not the Palestinian people, they haven't had an election since 2006 and there are several other militant groups within Palestine.
Reading is hard: https://archive.ph/RNiIk
“After some general explanatory language about Hamas’s religious foundation and noble intentions, the covenant comes to the Islamic Resistance Movement’s raison d’être: the slaughter of Jews. “The Day of Judgement will not come about,” it proclaims, “until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.””
Did you not read the UN Convention on Genocide? You know, the things Jewish people said they'd never forget?
Here's a PDF it's only like 4 pages: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.pdf
Whether or not it's true if the population is increasing in spite of all of these things isn't relevant. What's relevant is that Israel is attempting several of them (only need 1 for it to be genocide), and they have been for several decades.
I found this gem today and couldn't help but hare it
Let me quote some portions of the Hamas Covenant to you, and you tell me if you can find anything this insane in Israeli founding documents. Like it or not, Hamas has clearly stated its opposition to peace and its genocidal intent.
Intent is the difference.
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will abolish it, just as it abolished others before it
Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.
[The Jews] were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there.
You may speak as much as you want about regional and world wars. They were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the establishment of their state. It was they who instigated the replacement of the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to enable them to rule the world through them. There is no war going on anywhere, without having their finger in it.
[The Zionist invasion] relies greatly in its infiltration and espionage operations on the secret organizations it gave rise to, such as the Freemasons, The Rotary and Lions clubs, and other sabotage groups. All these organizations, whether secret or open, work in the interest of Zionism and according to its instructions. They aim at undermining societies, destroying values, corrupting consciences, deteriorating character and annihilating Islam. It is behind the drug trade and alcoholism in all its kinds so as to facilitate its control and expansion.
Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Muslim people. “May the cowards never sleep.”
It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror.
And you are assuming I support Hamas. Could you please explain what led you to believe that? Because I don't.
I posted that image to show how Israel doesn't criticize itself when it commits genocide or ethnic cleansing but is quick to jump into conclusions and condemn their own enemy even though they are committing the same act.
I'm not assuming anything, I'm explaining that intent matters when considering whether genocide is happening. Hamas clearly has intent, Israel on the other hand? I'm willing to be convinced of course; certainly some officials have made genocidal statements, but I'm not aware of the official policy or stated aims of Israel being specifically genocidal the way Hamas is. Apartheid? Absolutely, and that's bad enough.
Israel has attempted peace multiple times; I respect Arafat & the PLO for compromising and it's a shame what happened with that process. Hamas considers these efforts a "contradiction to its principles" and a "waste of time".
I agree. But to be honest your comment came out as sarcastic. Hamas don't take issue in being clear about their own agendas. Israel does everything to hide it. You don't need to find words like these in internal Israeli government documents. Their actions are enough. Nakba was ethnic cleansing. Today in Gaza is ethnic cleansing. Genocide is finally being used in the media as a word to describe the situation with accuracy.
What would you have Israel do? Not defend itself? Because by doing so according to your logic Israel is committing genocide then.
If Hamas didn’t keep attacking Israel and instead focused on improving the lives for residents in Gaza then Israel would not attack them.
Also based on that link you cited and your logic palestinians are committing genocide against the Israelis
False dichotomy. There are more options than "do nothing" and "force the evacuation of an entire populated area before bombing the entire region to the stone age". It doesn't take a political genius to see that.
Ok what are the options then? Let’s hear them in your view
The onus is not on this random internet commenter to produce an alternative. Can you really not think of one thing Israel could do that doesn't involve glassing what's left of a country?
Let’s see what they propose. Or you for that matter?
If Al qaeda was based in Canada and constantly attacking New York what would the U.S. have done post 9/11? Just leave them alone?
The truth is there no good option here. Elimination of Hamas is the only option and it will be bloody for both sides, partially due to Hamas use of Palestinian citizens as human shields. Hopefully after Hamas is removed from power Palestinians can elect leaders who don’t call for the complete annihilation of Israel and Israelis can elect moderates who are open to negotiations as well.
Unless you are among those who think Israel should be dissolved in which case you are not actually interested in a peaceful solution for all sides.
What would you have Israel do? Not defend itself?
Seems like absolutely no one has a problem with that. It's just when Israel bombs hospitals and shit and then says Hamas was doing whatever there, that's where people are drawing the line.
Hamas literally is launching rockets from hospitals, schools, etc.
Sure, yes, so some "terrorist" throws bombs at you from a hospital full of children. Do you bomb the hospital? yes or no?
Not defend itself?
FUCK YOU, I wanted to be gentle/subtle, but no, just fuck you with this shitty narrative!
Throwing 4000ton of bomb in 2days (according to IDF) in an highly dense enclave, cutting water/electricity/food. Really?
FUCK YOU!
You clearly don’t want to be gentle. What is the solution here? If Israel doesn’t defend itself than its residents will continue to be the subject of attacks by Hamas. What other option is there?
What country do you live in that would tolerate constant rocket attacks as well as now terrorist raids from their neighboring territory?
Nice pivot. Didn't work, but good try.
Also based on that link you cited and your logic palestinians are committing genocide against the Israelis
What a fucking joke. I guess just pretend you don't know how power dynamics work.
I’m genuinely curious. What would you have Israel do in response to last weeks attacks?
Well they could start doing the thing that would've prevented the attack in the first place, treat Palestinians like human beings. The main reason Hamas is in power is because Israel treats Palestinians like subhumans. Hamas wouldn't be a thing if Israel and Palestine made peace and found a way to co-exist.
Give the land back.
Power dynamics?
Is this some fucking joke to you? You think this is a mother fucking Video game?
This is war. It's not supposed to be fair. It's no more fair than when America steam rolled Iraq or Afghanistan. No more fair than when the Hamas terrorists with guns pulled those kids out of bed and shot them last week.
Hamas are terrorists. They need to be destroyed, that's why the US pulled its forces into the region. If you think that's for anything other reason than to ensure this threat is eliminated, you're fucking crazy.
War sucks. Hamas is going to be eliminated. The sooner they stop with the human shields, the better for the people of Gaza.
Power dynamics?
Is this some fucking joke to you? You think this is a mother fucking Video game?
Dumbest shit I've ever seen.
Yes, I'm making up the concept of power dynamics. I took them from video games. Unbelievable.
Defend itself against what? It, the UK, and the US started it and refused to relent. Yeah I expect Israel to give the illegal settlements back entirely. They intentionally encouraged too many people to move in in order to justify illegal expansion. So yeah send them back, pay the immigrants for Israel's fraud and con, and give the Palestinian's their land back.
You steal someone's car, and you make it right by giving it back and covering any damages. Just because Israel stole a really big "car" doesn't change how right and wrong works. You give it back and apologize whether you're a 3 year old or Netanyahu.
yes, for the last 18 years Palestinians haven't had anything to do, and had such horrid conditions that they had a population boom and over 50% of the people in the Gaza Strip are under 18 years old, but interestingly these population booms only happen when a group of people hits on extremely bad circumstances for a longer period of time
So how is that a genocide then?
It's not. It's the fastest growing population in the world.
People are fucking morons.
relocations are a major part of it.
Facts don't matter to these Anti Semites.
The UN has issued countless human rights notices against Israel, and how many against Hamas or Saudi Arabia?
It's a clearly biased organization that people alternatively take as gospel when it suits their needs or ignore when it doesn't.
It's obviously not a genocide. If it were, Gaza wouldn't have a growing population. It's really that fucking simple, you can't redefine something to suit your bullshit narrative.
Israel isn't trying to destroy a people or a nation. The millions of Arabs living peacefully in Israel are proof of that. They're GOING to destroy a terrorist organization that's holding a territory hostage though.
People calling out Israel's crimes isn't being antisemitic. Israelis forcing Palestinians from their homes, creating illegal settlements, running an apartheid state, having a large open air prison were half the population are children, and constantly killing Palestinian children is fucking abhorrent. Fuck Israel and fuck anyone that supports their crimes against humanity.
You're here supporting terrorists who explicitly call for the extermination of the Jewish people. You're holding Israel to a standard you refuse to hold others in the region too. They're stuck in the sandbox with terrorists, they're just playing by the same rules they're being subjected to.
wait, aren't you doing the same thing, considering the Jewish power party were a bunch of anti-arab terrorists before they got voted into office?
I'm not supporting the Israeli government, I'm supporting Israelis right to live in Peace. Prior to last week, I was one of that governments vocal critics. Now, like so many around the world, we can see the existential threat against the people of that country and I fully support the elimination of Hamas.
Once that's done, and while it's happening I can still champion the exiting of the West Bank and the promotion of a two state solution.
Hamas needs to be removed for Palestinians to have Peace. Their purpose as clearly laid out in their founding Charter is the destruction of the Jewish people, which means the destruction of the state of Israel which makes it pretty difficult to get a Peace deal in place.
so it's fine for apartheid Israel to run an open air prison and support Hamas to weaken the PA's push towards a 2-state solution for YEARS, but the second it backfires and there are Israeli deaths, then you need to take sides because suddenly the side with power actually experienced the reality of the ethnic conflict they have been pushing
I'm supporting the two million Palestinian children that Israel has not only stolen the future of, but also kills and maims on a regular basis. I hold Israel to a higher standard than Hamas because Israel has the power and my tax dollars. Hamas is largely a problem of Israel's own creation. I don't just mean through their crimes they've created animus. They have directly funded Hamas and helped destroy their opposition in Gaza. Really, stop conflating Israel with the Jewish ethnicity and Judaism. It's a really sorry attempt to hide behind the antisemitic claim to escape being called out for crimes against humanity.
Interesting how 2 million Arabs can live peacefully in Israel without fear of daily violence. The 2 million Arabs living in Gaza under Hamas' control, though that's another story, isn't it.
If you are on the side of the Palestinian children, then you would be in favor of Israel taking complete control of the territory. That's how those children will be safe. You don't actually care about those kids though. If you did, you wouldn't be so fucking ignorant about this.
I'm ignorant? Let Israel, the government who is on record calling all Palestinians animals and stating there are no innocents in Palestine, take over is best for those kids? You're just a supporter of genocide, point blank.
Israel is actively bombing truck loads of women and children taking the so-called "safe route" out of Gaza City. Israelis are forcing Palestinians from their homes in Jerusalem, building illegal settlements, and launching terror attacks from said settlements to further encroach on the Palestinians.
Genocide is fucking ignorant and disgusting.
Fun fact; Palestinians are Semites.
So being anti Palestine is, by definition, anti Semitic.
This is beyond ignorant.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/anti-Semitism
Educate yourself before you embarrass yourself again.
I’m not saying all of these commenters are anti semites but many of them have been conditioned to basically think that whatever Hamas does is a legitimate way of responding to grievances (some certainly with merit) and whatever Israel does respond to that is genocide.
If Al qaeda was based in Canada what would the U.S. have done after 9/11? Let them just continue to operate?
I have asked several posters on here to give me some better options for Israel than to destroy Hamas. So far not a single one has obliged.
not force exodus everything east of Quebec?
They can't engage because then they'll need to admit their hypocrisy and bias.
Israel's being held to a standard different than everyone else in the region. They understand better than most western nations what it's like to live in that sandbox. They're playing by the same rules as their neighbors and after last week the people blaming them don't have a leg to stand on..
They are doing that. They are bombing an area after making it impossible for people to evacuate by giving an impossible deadline. They are bombing the areas people are told to take on the way to evacuate. The people they are bombing have no defenses or way to escape. Israel’s own government officials have referred to Palestinians as animals and said there are no innocents among them. That’s what genocide looks like before having the benefit of hindsight.
This is not genocide. The German army has a massive amount of weapons with which it could commit genocide if it truly wanted to. The situation is horrible and the loss of civilians lives is also horrible but this is not genocide. Misusing that term risks it losing all meaning.
If it’s genocide why is the population of Palestinians GROWING?
That's a definite whoosh. Try this one: if the Holocaust was a genocide why are there still Jews?
6 million Jews were killed during the holocaust. Nearly 50% of the global population.
How you can compare the two with any sense of rationality is beyond me.
Israeli politicians have proposed killing everyone in gaza, that's 2 million people. Half are children.
Nobody serious is proposing that. Israel has some crazy right wingers but there’s no chance they do that. Unlike Hamas who, if given the opportunity, would eagerly do that to Israelis.
And Hamas has proposed killing all the Jews.
look into what causes massive population growth
It might be. Real soon.
Still, it doesn't go without saying. They might ignore it, but they can't pretend nobody said anything.
Isn’t pretending nobody said anything the basis for modern politics at this point?
I asked once why the law (Jewish religious law) said don’t kill, steal etc then said of Amallites not to leave one alive, man, woman or child. The answer? “Jewish law doesn’t apply to gentiles.”
Thinking about this some more, I have a feeling you misinterpreted what "Jewish law doesn't apply to gentiles" means. If I, a Jew, eat bacon, it's considered a sin. If a non-Jew eats bacon, it's not considered a sin. Jewish laws (restrictions, observances, etc) don't apply to non-Jews. It doesn't mean that Jews are allowed to treat non-Jews however they want with no repercussions.
This isn't quite true. First of all, I'm guessing you mean the Amalekites. The reason they are singled out is because they followed the Israelites during the Exodus from Egypt. They attacked from the rear to target the slowest people - the elderly and children. This gave them a "special status" so to speak with a commandment to wipe them out.
That being said, there are no Amalekites nowadays. There might be spiritual successors of them - people who want to wipe out all Jews no matter what and who will start with the elderly and children - but these people don't get "Amalekite treatment."
Apart from this exception (which, again, has no relevance in the modern world), Jewish law absolutely applies to how we treat non-Jews.