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In this thread: Depression and angry, and misplaced comparisons.
This doesn't change what we need to do, folks. Get Biden back in and use those four years to stay together and fix this bullshit. That's the goal. I think we ARE angry enough to finally achieve something like it.
That's what they said last time. I'll hold my nose and vote for him but I don't expect anything to improve and I'm not going to stop bitching about it.
At this point, I'll settle for "hold things together without sliding into pure fascism". Staying in a crappy place you are is better than going somewhere worse.
But yes, you should be doing whatever you can to make things where you are better in the meantime.
“hold things together without sliding into pure fascism
Except we've been doing that since 2016, for lots of even 2012 after we felt let down by Obama.
But take a second and think. Are we closer to the threat of pure fascism now than in 2016?
It's just a question of how fast we slide, which long term is unsustainable. We need to at least stop the slide and we just have t been doing that.
I think the "staying in the crappy place" pushes more people to accept fascists because they sing a tune of redemption, while the status quo still chokes you. Unfortunately that's never the right answer, but people aren't logical.
It definitely pushes some people to fascists - that's how Hitler came to power, after all - but not necessarily all. Unfortunately, our very broken electoral system gives fascists a built-in advantage, as the GOP is severely overrepresented in the government.
When asked if he supports some restrictions on abortion, Biden said he “supports Roe v. Wade, which had three trimesters. The first time is between a woman and a doctor. Second time is between a doctor and an extreme situation. A third time is between the doctor, I mean, between the women and the state.”
It's Joever
...as opposed to Trump ranting about deciding whether or not to abort after the baby is born?
It's not the best explanation of the Roe v Wade view of things, but it's far from the worst and a damn sight better than anything any Republican is going to say on the topic.
What's wrong with that answer? It makes sense to me. There's a little verbal flub but otherwise it sounds alright.
Don't you see?!? It's the worst thing ever! Even worse than Trump constantly lying about easily verified facts and being unable to answer most of the questions!
Cool. Can you translate it into English for me? Because I didn't follow it.
Haha I saw it as meaning in the first trimester a woman can get an abortion with just telling her doctor and having complete privacy without anyone else getting involved. In the second trimester, a doctor may get involved if there's a medical emergency if they need to without the state being involved. I guess in the third trimester, and only then, is it up to each state if they want to get involved. There was some verbal weirdness in the way he said it, but I thought that was the general idea.
It doesn’t make any sense to me.
It makes no fucking sense to me at all, whatsoever.
Well, apparently he doesn't know what a fucking trimester is.
It also may not "fix this bullshit" other than not having Trump, but that's still worth it a hundred fold.
This doesn’t change what we need to do
Campaign at the state level to change our voting system so we can have more options in the voting booth?
Think bigger.
Organize rallies and protests. Campaign at every level. Set up grassroots funding even for Mayor positions. A grassroots site that walks people who have the capacity to do, though no idea where to start, could be big on its own. Literally take those four years and apply ALL of ourselves in the best ways we know how.
Is this a monumental undertaking? Fucking of course it is. Though none of us will be alone IF WE COME TOGETHER despite our differences in opinion.
Four years MIGHT be enough time to finally establish a viable third party, but it's gonna take work.
Four years is not nearly enough to establish a viable third party. The rightwing has been working towards the current situation for decades. It's nice the left is finally waking up but it's going to take decades of continuing work to unfuck us.
Agreed, but the "I only vote third party" people never think about elections unless it's the presidential election (gestures vaguely around), when it's far too late. This is work that needs to start at a local level to build the party slowly and methodically on a solid foundation and integrate it into the system through numbers and results. Americans just don't have the attention span.
Agreed, but the "I only vote third party" people never think about elections unless it's the presidential election (gestures vaguely around), when it's far too late.
Lmao. What? Federal elections get third parties ballot access. Inside third parties they use ballot access to run as many people as they can in local elections. The reality is, they sort of cut off their federal candidates and focus on local ones, because they can't afford to exceed in kind donation limits.
I've ran for state house as a third party candidate. Try it sometime instead of spouting ignorance.
Lol yeah keep shooting for the moon expecting some third party to come out of nowhere and hold the highest power in the world and practically no other office.
I’ve been saying this for months. Don’t expect the Russian bots to listen at all, and as for the far left, they’re only here to make appearances. After the election- regardless of who wins, they’ll vanish like they do every election.
as for the far left, they’re only here to make appearances. After the election- regardless of who wins, they’ll vanish like they do every election.
We appreciate you, our blue conservative ally
Problem is we all see the writing on the wall. Biden will not finish other 4 year term. So a vote for Biden is a vote for Harris and some will not do that.
Biden fucked us at that debate best thing he can do now is step aside and hopefully the DNC can find a decent replacement that can beat Trump.
My boss Nikki Hailey switch parties but I don’t like her at all.
My boss Nikki Hailey switch parties but I don’t like her at all.
In here posting about an ancient man's debate performance and then end it with a sentence like this shit. 😝
They've had 4 years already and done nothing with it. I don't know what you think another 4 will accomplish.
They've done plenty with it. There have been a large number of positive changes. Lists exist in SO many places, go find them. Challenge yourself.
Just not the deep changes in the system itself many of us know is needed.
You can't fix Capitalism, you have to get rid of it.
True, but replacing it with fascism is not an improvement.
Never said it was. Capitalism enables the conditions for fascism, the way to avoid and stop fascism is to remove the root cause.
Yeah, we'll get right on that. /s
Eventually we will, or we will have fascism, yes. That's how it works.
Sure, I've read the Communist Manifesto too.
That one's kinda weak for learning why fascism is inevitable in a Capitalist system. Wage Labor and Capital and Value, Price and Profit both do a much better job of actually explaining the inherent unsustainability of Capitalism.
As fun to read as the CM is, it's ultimately a pamphlet to radicalize workers, it isn't really a solid overview of Marxist theory.
Marxism is a fun thought experiment, but changing a system of government popularized by a known antisemite while knowing it’s really never been successful anywhere else, is not really worth the damage it would create.
And before you think to argue, maybe look into what happened to Bulgaria when they tried socialism. Hell… even Russia isn’t socialist anymore.
A lot of this writing has the same flaw that many other analytical texts have: great at diagnosing or discussing a problem and absolutely shit at coming up with any solutions to it.
The "what is the problem" part of the text is like 95% of it, then it's "what we can do about it" is the remaining 4% before the author thanks his wife.
The "what is the problem" part is full of cogent analysis, data, and decent hypotheses and is well researched.
The "what can we do about it" is weak ass half-thought out ideas that never wind up getting implemented in whole or even in part because of their obvious flaws.
I personally think that's because actually organizing people to do anything about any problem is infinitely harder than identifying one.
They’ve done plenty with it.
You're right, Biden signed an executive order making it illegal for a railway union to actually go on strike. And he kept a bunch of Trump appointees in positions where they can do the most damage. Like that dipshit who runs the postal service now.
Trump claimed the whole county is gone, destroyed. Over. That 'abortion' means killing babies who have already been born, are viable, and alive, That immigration of murder-rape insane asylum Mexicans is coming to the US to kill and rape pregnant white women, and steal all the jobs from... checks notes Hispanics, and that the whole world is laughing at Biden and has no respect for the US, that Putin ''took land'' under all previous president's but not him, that it took serious leadership skill for him to fire all the people he fired while president, that he didn't appoint anyone he fired, he 'inherited' them, That the US isn't pro Isreal enough and Biden is so against Isreal he is ''a Palestinian'' and ''not even a good one'' that we should have boots on the ground in Gaza, that we should leave NATO (a thing the US created to have military bases all across the EU and more) That Biden botched the withdrawal from Afghanistan, with the tready, or as every credible foreign policy figure has called it, a surrender to the Taliban that Trump negotiated and signed (it was bueatiful it was tremendous) That he didn't allow mandates during Covid, that he didn't support the vaccine, that he took credit for having made, that cured covid, the covid that's not as big a deal as some say, that more people died of covid under Biden, and that the economic upswing after covid was only his economy from before covid coming back, so Biden can't take credit for how great his economy is since it came back, and the economy is over, it's destroyed, there is no economy, we're all dead, nothing can be done, the US is over, it's all over, BLM burned down the whole country, under Biden, not under Trump he would have fixed that if he was in office when BLM happened he is so good, only he can save us all, he doesn't even want to, he just has to because Biden is so bad, everything is bad, are all going to die, it's all over, we're already dead, this is hell, we're all dead and in hell, Biden is the devil, he is making us get convicted of felonies, over and over, like 30 felonies, why won't he let us die, it's not fair, we're all dead, please stop voting for me, I just want to die.
My point is, if you have to select one of these men soon to be in their 80s who are going to stumble around in a open bathrobe in the oval office, maybe the one that has a fixed view on reality is better than in rambling jackass who can't even connect two dots in his own rhetoric.
Good points, but please use paragraphs
No shit. I couldn't finish reading the post.
On the contrary. I'm a stickler for clean formatting, but I really think the wall of text emphasized his point more than anything.
People seem to think I'm advocating voting for Trump. I'm not. You have to vote for Biden, because the alternative is unconscionable. But people shouldn't pretend the Democrats are a party of political accomplishment. You're not voting for the positive changes the party can do. You're voting for the promise that they won't go out of their way to make things worse. That's it.