Democrats: You have to vote for democrats to stop Trump from round up people and shipping them to concentration camps for slave labor.

The 13th ammendment explicitly permits slavery, as long as the geverment says you committed a crime. (like being homeless)

Plantation hand-assed comment. John Brown would've ventilated your ass.

"John Brown would have killed you." The response to all liberals.
- A response that feels great but accomplishes less than nothing. Sounds a lot like liberalism to me.
  
  ~~I'm going to phrase this as politely as I can to you, with respect to knowing you and your history on this site:~~ Fuck that, you don't deserve my respect: if all you've got is paternalistic optics games and tone policing, then please shut the fuck up. I do not play optics games. I do not respect tone police. Optics games will not save anybody, will not push policy, will not do ANYTHING MORE than legitimize the propriety-poisoned society we're forced to toil under.
  
  The FACT OF THE MATTER IS every body, Black, brown, or otherwise, that gets funneled through the Department of Corrections pipeline is turned into a slave. By Amerikans. The FACT OF THE MATTER IS that every Amerikan that fails to fight this, that plays these cute little semantics games to make the crackers feel like they're not complicit, that bears plantation water, is JUST AS COMPLICIT in the slavery that never ended in this country.
  
  As far as I'm concerned, this is a davel-tier comment.
  
  davel-tier comment
  
  💀
  
  I find myself saying "I had so much higher hopes for them" irritatingly frequently lately.
  
  I gotta say I am sorry bout that dipshit and they got banned before I got back home, but your replies had me fucking dying while I was on my breaks reading the thread.
  
  We're talking about politics -- do you honestly believe no part of that conversation involves how best to get people to agree with you?
  
  Communists must listen attentively to the views of people outside the Party and let them have their say. If what they say is right, we ought to welcome it, and we should learn from their strong points; if it is wrong, we should let them finish what they are saying and then patiently explain things to them.
  
  You pander to liberal ignorance in ways that will never lead them to the facts. "Letting them have their say" is actively enslaving and profiteering off of carceral chattel, you absolute fucking spin doctor. I feel like I've argued with you before on matters you had no fucking room to opine on, while book-worshipping the whole way-- which my undying and perennial response to is that if you apply rote book knowledge from one specific set of material conditions to another situation whose material conditions do not 1:1 match, you are committing book worship. THIS IS A FORM OF LIBERALISM.
  
  EDIT: Oh my god, I have had this go-round with you before. Don't bother responding further; you're still the same old cracker with shit takes on the colonized and enslaved. I'm not doin this with you. Why they even let you still breathe here is beyond me; but they also allowed TheAnonymouseJoker and davel for good long runs, so maybe they just lenient.
  
  The more I keep thinking about this, the funnier it gets, y'know-- it amazes me how any other time your shit takes on the colonized get addressed, you never have the time for it; but oooooh let someone talk mess about crackers, liberals, or the intersection of liberal crackers. Then you got all the time in the world to come play paternal.
  
  shit takes on the colonized and enslaved
  
  I'm not the one disagreeing with Mao here.
  
  Book worship regarding text that doesn't apply 1:1 to the Amerikan condition. You still don't listen. Fuck all the way off with this paternalist nonsense, peckerwood. This country's crimes will never be scrubbed away but with the blood of colonizers.
  
  "Here's an idea that worked real well somewhere else, maybe we should consider that instead of telling people they should be shot" is not book worship.
  
  This country's crimes will never be scrubbed away but with the blood of colonizers.
  
  You realize you're ~~book worshiping~~ quoting a guy who failed, right? It feels good, it feels righteous, but it didn't work. I'm trying to talk about stuff that might work, because it's worked elsewhere. You're just wrecking.
  
  You still don't listen. This is not a debate. I told you to shut the fuck up posts ago, and you still ain't listening to me. I fundamentally do not, and will not respect anything you have to say, regardless of who you quote to get your maladaptive, rankly-assimilationist point off-- because it's YOU, and YOU are known to optics politic, tone police, and carry water for settlers.
  
  Fuck off, peckerwood.
  
  Maybe I won't be so hostile when the first recourse for the settler-left stops being "accuse every Black nationalist of wrecking", but TODAY AIN'T THAT DAY, cracker. Talm bout 'wrecking' like this is actually an organization and not a fuckin niche shitposter's forum fuck outta here clot
  
  Damn bro thought he could criticize John Brown and not get banned
  
  We've done the polite explaining for decades and it's gotten us nowhere. What worked in China doesn't work in burgerland
  
  Did not expect the wholesale rejection of Mao on Hexbear today.
  
  It's worth noting that Mao's point (which is apparently tailism!) has been echoed all over the place (see "we can never stop explaining"), and that nothing the U.S. left has tried worked either. I put more weight on things that have worked somewhere than on things that have worked nowhere.
  
  Sure and I want to agree with you! As I've said in other comments last week, I believe our culture puts us in a position where it is much harder to get Americans to even listen vs. Places like China.
  
  I believe Chinese culture is more geared toward community, helping your neighbors, looking out for each other, etc. Same for many places. Not in America. We are hyper-individualist to an absurd degree. Just drive down any stretch of highway to see how selfish the average driver is. See how many crashes we have because people have no respect for others on the road. Then walk down our streets and see all of the litter, all of the dog shit that isn't being picked up, etc. We want to be left alone and we don't care about others at all. We are greedy, resentful, selfish, etc.
  
  You may say that is a product of Capitalism, but I believe there's more to it here. Even among other capitalist countries I don't see the amount of carelessness present in everyday life. Ex: In Japan there are norms around eating in public, taking your trash with you, giving space in public, and so on.
  
  I agree that the U.S. is more selfish and individualistic than even other capitalist countries. I agree that fewer people in the U.S. will respond positively to discussion than they would in other countries.
  
  But some people will respond to it, while no one -- especially not hyper-individualists! -- will respond to variations on "fuck off." I'd rather engage with some people than with no people, because while the former may be a long shot, the latter is a guaranteed loss.
  
  I genuinely don't get how anyone thinks "agree with everything I say immediately or fuck off" is going to accomplish anything. That is exactly the shit we laugh at small weirdo ultra sects for doing.
  
  So what are you suggesting we do differently? From where I stand I don't see current tactics are working.
  
  DSA is shrinking & other left orgs have a few thousand members each on a good day. We're looking at maybe if you stretch 100k leftists that join an org? That's a Taylot Swift concert. Not nothing, but not enough for a revolution or to be taken seriously in most parts of the country.
  
  I have some ideas in an effort post I made a while back. Who knows what will work? I just believe that the current tactics are being done out of inertia more than strategic thinking.
  
  okay, so patiently explain to them how prison-slave labour and the 13th amendment work.
  
  What's a that old saying "you can't a convince a man against something his salary depends on"? Or something.
  
  Liberals believe what they do because they have to to maintain their positions. You'll never convince a homeowner that's interested in their property values that crimes against humanity are occurring to raise said value. Time and time again they've been patiently explained too and their views still allow for horror. Absent explication these laws have obvious conclusions of which even incurious people should easily be able to divine, the fact so many cannot or claim to not shouldn't be surprising to a materialist. The serene explanations can be set aside for something else.
  
  Maybe you want to but I'm not about to put the emotional labor in writing a response to a liberal that still wants to kill the homeless.
  
  Absolutely nothing about that person's comment suggested they want to kill homeless people. They said they didn't believe Democrats want to enslave homeless people.
  
  Arguing with them doesn't accomplish anything either. Wishing them a very takes less time, is more satisfying, and is about as likely to change their minds.
  
  Arguing with them doesn't accomplish anything either
  
  Believing that we can't change people's minds is defeatist. All I'm saying is that meeting "I don't think Democrats want to enslave the homeless" with essentially "kill urself" isn't going to change minds.
John Brown the Burninator
- burninating the crackerside

What do you think the prison industrial complex is?

They're right. There's a big difference between "can we ticket someone for sleeping outside" and "we are going to enslave all homeless people." The situation is bad enough that the actual facts are all we need, anyway. Exaggerating does not work; it produces this exact "come on, now" response because the exaggeration is that far from reality.

The point to hammer on here is that Democrats are not fighting the horrible shit Republicans do, they are just going along with the new status quo. For all the progressive hand-wringing about this decision, the actual Dems in power (here the LA City Council) see it and say "huh let's see what we're now legally able to do to homeless people."

Comrade they are literally going to do this. They issue a ticket which a person cannot pay, and after so many tickets, incarcerate that person, and then they become slave labor, what's the exaggeration here
- We can go back-and-forth all day, but the bottom line is that no significant number of non-leftists will believe that Democrats want to enslave homeless people. We have one right here telling us as much, and if you try this line out on your lib friends in person you'll get the same response.
  
  We need to build a mass movement to get anything done. You don't get a large number of people to agree with you by staking out a position they think is ridiculous and then berating them for not immediately agreeing (exactly what we've done here). You start with uncomfortable facts that they have no way to argue, like "Democrats aren't fighting this, they're gearing up to use it."
  
  I agree, but I also don't feel the need to sugar coat topics to appease liberals in our explicitly leftist space.
  
  As usual we are all correct here
  
  If this is just a space for lefties, we shouldn't get so high on our own supply that we forget how to talk to libs, or the necessity of persuading people to join us.
  
  If this is a lefty space that is frequently visited by non-leftists, and can be used as a way to persuade them, then we shouldn't be staking out the hottest possible take and telling people they should be shot if they disagree.
  
  If this is a lefty space that is frequently visited by non-leftists, and can be used as a way to persuade them, then we shouldn't be staking out the hottest possible take and telling people they should be shot if they disagree.
  
  Hate it to break the news, but to be quite frank, literaly nobody believes this, nobody sees HB like this, certainly if you stick around for long enough you'd have seen the cycles of people coming and going and how discourse changes.
  
  Believe it or not this site used to be quite a bit more in favor of "harm reduction" in 2020. The current trend you see of complete rejection of Biden is not something that came overnight, even if for some that was Oct 7th, for most others 2o20 was already the compromise. Just go back and look at the trauma people here got from Biden's handling of COVID.
  
  That is now part of this site history, "harm reduction" is now a complete and utter shitty joke and a meme as a result.
  
  So as you can see, nobody now visiting this site believes there will be any discourse with people to the right of us like liberal dems. We did that and the Americans here already got burned from it.
  
  We welcome liberals and people further to the right if they're honest about learning and changing, but nobody is under the illusion there is any debate or convincing anyone anymore. We tell Libs can go and eat shit and die, after all its what they told us throughout COVID for example.
  
  I am amenable to this vibe but also its important to demonstrate to reddit brained that we have actually done more work in developing a politics that has materially worked far greater for far more people than anything they have conceived of. They're here as guests and can ask questions in good faith but assertions are just a stupid thing to do going into any space that is dominated by any ideology
  
  I don't think "well, gee, I know you love the Democrats, and who knows, maybe they had good intentions when they tried to criminalise homelessness" will lead to a mass movement
  
  I'm not saying anything close to that. "Democrats will piss and moan and then go right along with the worst shit Republicans do" is basically the opposite.
  
  Sticking to the actual facts -- Democrats are immediately going along with this horrible thing Republicans did -- does not mean pulling punches, or watering down how shitty Democrats are.
  
  Sticking to the actual facts, both Republicans and Democrats are doing fucked up shit. It's not "Republicans do bad thing" followed by "Democrats follow along"
  
  You don't go "whoops, guess I'll criminalize homelessness now that it's an option"
  
  You don't dilute the bastards' crimes even by 1%, or the liberals will go "see, we may not be perfect, but it was the Republicans who started this! It's not our fault"
  
  Sticking to the actual facts, both Republicans and Democrats are doing fucked up shit.
  
  You're right, and you're right that we should point that out, too.
  
  What I'm saying is that we should stick to the bad things Democrats actually do, not exaggerate. There is no need to exaggerate because Dems do plenty of horrible shit already, and exaggeration doesn't persuade people who don't already agree with you.
  
  Calling things out for what they are isn't "exaggeration."
  
  Letting liberals dictate the tone in which things are discussed, a tone which has normalized material and political support for genocide in Palestine, is a losing strategy.
  
  Do you not equate imprisonment in the US with enslavement? Like the thing they are being accused of doing is in fact what they are going to be doing. There's no exaggeration here. This is what I'm struggling with.
  
  Say you're right, and there is no difference between going to jail in 2024 and being enslaved on a plantation in 1824 (what "slavery" means to people in the U.S.). Simply saying that does not work.
  
  Our comrades must understand that ideological remolding involves long-term, patient and painstaking work, and they must not attempt to change people's ideology, which has been shaped over decades of life, by giving a few lectures or by holding a few meetings. Persuasion, not compulsion, is the only way to convince them. Compulsion will never result in convincing them. To try to convince them by force simply won't work. This kind of method is permissible in dealing with the enemy, but absolutely impermissible in dealing with comrades or friends.
  
  Here, we aren't even trying "a few lectures or meetings" and then giving up on people, we're shouting a hot take at them and then telling them to fuck off (or worse) if they don't immediately abandon their long-held beliefs. What is the point of reading all this leftist theory if we just ignore it?
  
  But yes, I think there are some significant differences between modern incarceration and the U.S. conception of slavery (antebellum south chattel slavery). That doesn't mean prison conditions are fine, or that it's OK to coerce prisoners into virtually unpaid labor, or anything like that.

Democrats: You have to vote for democrats to stop Trump from round up people and shipping them to concentration camps for slave labor.

Fuck off, peckerwood.