Exclusive: US to send depleted-uranium munitions to Ukraine
Exclusive: US to send depleted-uranium munitions to Ukraine
The Biden administration will for the first time send controversial armor-piercing munitions containing depleted uranium to Ukraine, according to a document seen by Reuters and separately confirmed by two U.S. officials.
The use of depleted uranium munitions has been fiercely debated, with opponents like the International Coalition to Ban Uranium Weapons saying there are dangerous health risks from ingesting or inhaling depleted uranium dust, including cancers and birth defects.
You're viewing a single thread.
I'm sure Ukrainian soldiers on the front line are worried about cancer and birth defects.
It's not about them. It's the children who find the spent ammo later.
This crap is the reason that there are birth defects spikes anywhere the US military operates.
Ok but the alternatives are not environmentally conscious either, finally the people who’s land it is should be the ones making choices about the conditions of that land
The alternative bring tungsten? It's very stable so anything besides eating a spent rod isn't going to have effects. If it's in the air it'll just be inert. Even if it gets in your lungs it'll be like any other dust. DU on the other hand would keep emitting radiation internally.
But which people? Government or the people who actually own the land?
And I guess, their favourite choice of "Don't use any weapons on my land and just clear off voluntairily" is not an option.
I don't get why people hate on the Ukraine for using weapons to defend themselves. Not like they chose to be attacked.
The alternative is to stop using people of Ukraine to fight a proxy war with Russia.
Then why don't you ask Russia to withdraw, wouldn't that be easier?
Russia is obviously not going to withdraw, and you or me asking Russia to withdraw isn't going to make it happen. However, people living in western countries do have at least some influence on their own regimes. Of course, the reason western regimes can keep the proxy war going is precisely because a lot of scumbags are cheering it on right now.
Ukraine asked for help against a violent aggressor. Is it bad to help someone defend their lives and home when they ask for your help and you are capable of providing it?
People of Donbas whom the Ukrainian regime was abusing for the past eight years asked Russia for help to defend their lives and home. The atrocities the Ukrainian regime was committing were even covered by CNN in 2014 https://twitter.com/paulius60/status/1611148483859255296
Meanwhile, the west is not helping Ukraine, it's prolonging the war which results in more people dying without changing the outcome. This war could've been over last March when Russia and Ukraine almost signed a deal, but UK and US decided to torpedo it. If that's your idea of helping Ukraine then you need to get your head checked.
The people of Ukraine seem to have a somewhat different view on the matter
That's a really convenient narrative based on the fallacy of homogenizing Ukraine. Let's take a look at a few slides from this lecture that Mearsheimer gave back in 2015 to get a bit of background on the subject. Mearsheimer is certainly not pro Russian in any sense, and a proponent of US global hegemony. First, here's the demographic breakdown of Ukraine:
here's how the election in 2004 went:
this is the 2010 election:
As we can clearly see from the voting patterns in both elections, the country is divided exactly across the current line of conflict. Furthermore, a survey conducted in 2015 further shows that there is a sharp division between people of eastern and western Ukraine on which economic bloc they would rather belong to:
Maybe learn a bit about the subject first.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
election in 2004
2010 election
I wonder if anything of note happened between then and now, in other news Donald Trump is still president and gay marriage is illegal in the US
Maybe learn a bit about the subject first.
I suggest you go to Kyiv in the grocery store and explain this to the workers there
Oh yeah, things of note definitely happened since then
- https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions
- https://twitter.com/paulius60/status/1611148483859255296
I suggest you go to Donbas and explain the above to people there that the regime you support has been maiming for the past decade.
le regime
you can take the Redditor out of reddit but ... speaking of which, are you updooting your own replies?
What I see is a very deliberate attempt of russia to try to breed out an ethnicity in an attempt to create a reason to take more land. Which is exactly what happened- maybe learn about the subject first.
Lol the people of ukraine are fighting against a war of aggression from Russia. That's it.
Is ammo made from lead that much better? I honestly don't know. Sure the radiation sucks but Uranium, at least the isotope they're sending is "barely" radioactive. It's the same Uranium people had in their plates etc. The toxicity is probably the far more relevant factor but I don't know how Uranium compares to lead.
Depleted uranium is not really that radioactive. Everything is technically radioactive eventually though. Depleted uranium is what's left behind when you seperate the radioactive stuff out. It's a heavy metal still, so isn't good for you, but heavy metals will always be involved. Trying to have a war using only healthy, organic, ethically sourced munitions isn't going to happen.
It's nothing to do with radioactivity, it's the toxicity that comes with most heavy metals.
There isn't radiation in Depleted uranium.
This makes sense.
I imagine there's a lot more reasons for birth defect spikes post US mil ops in addition to this. The military isn't exactly an environmentally conscious operation. ☠️
Agent orange is what plants crave
Sure, burn pits and other crap will help.
But this kind of ammo, kids will find and hang on to. They bring it home, add it to their collection of other cool shit they've scavenged...and then their brothers and sisters are born with malformed limbs, mishaped heads, etc.
There have been a lot of stories written about it over the years. The one I read was specifically about Iraq I believe, but it was a while ago.
To be fair, the impact of DU is mostly because of heavy metal poisoning, not radioactivity.
Proper chunks of depleted uranium are more or less harmless. It's dangerous if you inhale or ingest large quantities over a long period of time. Not just having it on a shelf
You’re acting like being near this stuff is akin to standing in Chernobyl while it just isn’t true
The amount of Ukrainians dying right now will pale in comparison to those effected by the munitions.
The controversy around depleted uranium rounds is way overblown.
Even in Iraq the evidence is super inconclusive. And yes birth defects rose however the entire country basically collapsed for years and nothing clearly indicates it was the DU used.
Don't get me wrong, it's nasty stuff. But this is war, more people are getting killed by bombs then any DU related cancer can cause.
In Basra the rate of leukemia in children rose dramatically and that is too specific of a disease to not be linked to DU exposure due to the heavy use of it in surrounding tank battles.
How do you you it's not linked to any of the other hundreds of dangerous chemicals?
Because the issue is specific to the region and started specifically after the tank battle where DU ammunition was used. If it would be a general issue with some dangerous chemical being used, we'd expect to see similiar issues in other regions. Of course it is hypotheticakky possible that at the same time some dangerous and persistant chemical exposure happened in the region, but that is not plausible and also the US would have a strong interest in finding such an alternative explanation. But there isn't any research published, that provided an alternative.
Also look into the wording of the US when sending the ammunition to Ukraine. They state that no radiation hazard is to be expected for the Ukrainians. They do not talk about a toxicological hazard.
- correlation ≠ causation. 2) if the disease is caused by DU, is it due to the radioactivity or the fact that DU is a heavy metal?
i never said it had to be because of radiation. Even just in its effect as a heavy metal it seems to be much worse. Also it could be that it becomes airborn more easily than other metals such as lead, so the wreckage of tanks shot with DU are more dangerous to the people cleaning them up.
Why are you so worried about speculated harms when Ukrainians are actually being raped, tortured, and murdered by russians? Your lack of humanity is showing
Turning "we need to weigh benefits and costs" into "your lack of humanity is showing" is quite a take and obviously has nothing to do with reality.
How about letting Ukrainians make that cost/benefit analysis for their own country? I think they're grown-ups, no need to patronize.
it's not the Ukrainian people who decide, it's the Ukrainian government that decides, and America basically decides what they decide
Ukrainian government has a very high approval rate among the population.
Are you really this delusional? Sure Ukraine has their own uranium munitions that they can decide to use anytime they want... When does the public get to decide on what happens with the tax money - fund schools, build infrastructure, etc. or send radioactive ammunition to fuel a proxy war in some corrupt country?
Weighing costs and benefits happens with a comprehensive set of actual facts, not a hodgepodge of speculations and fearmongering that play into the fascists' hands
Permanently Deleted
Yes, Ukrainian soldiers on front line are worried about cancer and birth defects. They are rational human beings who hope to return to their homes and live long lives and grow healthy children, not some subhumans with only intent to kill, kill, kill, as you wish to think.
I don't know how rational this is. Given how many soldiers have died so far, if I were a Ukrainian sent to fight on the front line, I wouldn't expect to be coming back. Rather I'd hope that I contribute to the defeat of the enemy, so that my children or my comrades children don't grow up under Russian rule. I'm not in their shoes of course. There's no universal motivation so maybe what you say is more prevalent. That said, this war might not end without soldiers doing a lot more killing so "kill, kill, kill" might be an appropriate viewpoint.
You will get cancer sooner by staying in the sun on a beach or anywhere.
Everyone should worry. Depleted uranium will contaminate large crop production areas and later these grains will be sold all around the world. Everybody will eat some.
What does the "depleted" part of depleted uranium mean?
There are multiple different isotopes of uranium, depleted has less of the kinds good for bombs or fuel.
Depleted means that the radioactive isotope is lower in concentration. It still is somehow radioactive (it's almost fine if not ingested) and still remains a heavy and toxic metal.
Right, so how are all these large areas and crops going to be contaminated?
When they explode, they spread radioactive dust into the surrounding area. If that area is ever farmed it can contaminate the crops and cause cancer to anyone breathing in the dust
And what is the level of risk of that happening?
Banana is somehow radioactive too you know. Or granit. Anciant Greece monument often are above the radiation levels allowed in a nuclear power plant.
Also, while you talk about it, lead is far far more toxic than depleted uranium. Many metals are toxic actually, that's why your government monitor water meant for consumption.
lead is far far more toxic than depleted uranium
Looks like that might not be correct. https://lemmy.world/comment/3108233
Ancient Greece used marble for monuments, not granite...
Are you denser then Uranium? Why do you think there is an issue with waste from nuclear power plants? Hint: it is radioactive!
Calls me dense, doesn't know what depleted uranium is
Sure, whatever makes you feel lighter.
No it won't