Skip Navigation
games @hexbear.net Alaskaball [comrade/them] @hexbear.net

Hogwarts Legacy players frustrated as Starfield and Baldur’s Gate 3 outshine Harry Potter game - Dexerto | Ghostarchive

ghostarchive.org Hogwarts Legacy players frustrated as Starfield and Baldur’s Gate 3 outshine Harry Potter game - Dexerto | Ghostarchive

Whiny nerds who haven't read a new book in over two decades shed tears over the fact their boring-ass game sucks and is getting swirlied in the toilet bowl by actual cool games

86

You're viewing a single thread.

86 comments

  • im hesitant to call Starfield actually "cool" yet. BG3 is rad though.

    • im hesitant to call Starfield actually "cool" yet.

      I've been tearing into it a lot, but it is genuinely the best thing Bethesda's put out in the past 20 years. It's still tepid Bethesda mush but the writing quality has varied wildly. The quest I posted about yesterday was just awful, but I did a questline today that entailed hunting down every member of a fascist militia and ultimately led to being able to just summarily execute a CEO for his crimes (but mostly for resisting arrest, because he was very dumb too).

      • hunting down every member of a fascist militia

        I get to kill Vanguard???

        • No, it's some weird revanchist stabbed-in-the-back lunatics from the FC whose entire plan was to get the warrior's death they were denied by the war ending (the dumbest part being their side won and their primary grievance is that they were arrested when they tried to keep fighting after the war ended). You hunt them and their new devotees down in the FC Ranger questline which is a nonsensically written organization that's trying to be a mashup of Texas Rangers and ME Specters but at the same time is a toothless federal agency with less than a dozen members who are operating on behalf of the weak federal government of a federation of ancap despotries that simultaneously grants them no legal powers but also lets them just run around doing whatever with no oversight to the point that you can literally just up and kill one of the dictators of the FC at the end of it and literally no one cares.

          • [Worldbuilding spoilers ahead]

            Ahhh a different fascist militia that wouldn't end the war then! Makes sense.

            Both sides suck ass and this universe is absolutely missing a socialist faction pursuing a Star Trek-like future. If I end up starting a mod project for the game one of my ideas on the backburner is a socialist faction who are essentially neo-bolsheviks that cite Star Trek in-game as their inspiration for the future they're fighting to build.

            I also think a project is needed to add much-needed depth to the liberal cities. The Well in New Atlantis is getting cited by libs as the "punk" part and the "dark underbelly" but it lacks punch. It's just the old town, no longer maintained. There's no real economic criticism in it as far as I can see and it's only bad because it's old. Additions like beggars, homeless and desperate peddlers selling trinkets and tourist guff spilling out into the upper level and train station entrances will make an absolutely massive improvement. Throw in some radiants for pickpockets, beggar actions, UC police beating someone to death (give them guns with no ammunition and they should beat the target to death), among other things and you'll have an environment that gives the player a much stronger representation of the underbelly that should exist more clearly in these places. Might also be an opportunity to tell some real poverty stories, include stories about kids more for some impact, particularly as kids in Bethesda games are almost non-existent and when they do exist they're always just incredibly annoying.

            Anyway that's more or less my notes-taking so far for mod improvements to parts of the game that annoy me. The only other major settlement I've visited so far is Mars and that's got some relatively ok critique going on because of the fracking explosions. But I haven't seen it really tell any stories about what the impact of those explosions would be on the people though. Could be an avenue to go down to give it more depth and criticise its society better.

            Oh and I hated the quest on Mars where I had to get an admin-assistant job. Why did they send me in my own spaceship up to the spacestation to apply for a job on the planet? It's so ridiculous. Someone getting an admin-assistant job would not have enough money to own their own starship. There should be a shuttle that the poor people pay to use and get from A to B when needed.

            • Someone getting an admin-assistant job would not have enough money to own their own starship. There should be a shuttle that the poor people pay to use and get from A to B when needed.

              Something about the future being as extremely car brained as present day North America is kinda unintentionally funny though.

              • It's fucking weird. The idea of being a space pilot is literally the fantasy the game sells. But that's meaningless if everyone in the galaxy with even an admin job has a spaceship like they're cars. Why would people work as gunner/engineer on someone else's spaceship if they have enough money to own their own? Why are all these people working with/for the player for wages?

                It's absolutely ridiculous. You need to ground space travel in people who dream of going to the stars but are stuck due to it being out of their means vs the people who do have the means. And you need to give the player many different possible backstories for how they attained these means. Either luck. Or piracy. Or they're a super engineer who built one. Or they're actually rich. Etc etc. You've got to give the player roleplay options to properly fill this in.

                All of these things should be relatively easy to fix though, since the only places you have to change to fix these are the major cities. You can probably fix this with 10-15 new NPCs per city with dialog, and then a bunch of NPCs with no dialog other than a 1 line response.

                • Yeah I think it's also a big problem that the money system is so compressed that it's hard to know how much anything is worth. Like if an apple or a meal is around 100 credits, then the 10k that small ship would cost is basically walking around money for most people. A penthouse apartment on Neon is 25k is, so is property just really cheap there or is food expensive?

                  Ultimately gameplay balance and all that, but it seems like very strange world building to me.

                  • The prices they've chosen are really just about fantasy fulfilment for the player, they went with making everything cheap and easily attainable, since most of it is fairly meaningless. You fly around in a flying house with every amenity you need for one, you don't need properties.

                    Modding has a lot of potential here though. Rebuilding the economy and pricing combined with a good survival mod that takes advantage of the game having native temperature and climate features... Add fuel necessity and costs to the game too. You can really make working and doing missions to earn a living a necessity, and you will be able to get stranded on planets where you starve/freeze and die. A significant amount of depth will come from deepening this. The temperature feature in particular feels like they added it specifically for modders since it's effect is negligible in the base game.

                    I also think that we need a "cities don't allow space suits" feature so players have to lose their armour in cities and become more vulnerable. Make decisions more meaningful.

                    Generally I feel like the gameplay should be balanced around Fromsoft's approach to combat as well. Death should be quick for players that make mistakes but combat highly rewarding when you play it well and smartly. The powers in particular seem like they can be VERY powerful and will remain strong even when you raise damage significantly.

                    There's a lot to work with here. I won't pretend I'm not a little excited about modding, I really do think it's the best game this studio has released since Oblivion even with all my criticisms of the lib writing. They REALLY need to put something into solving performance issues though, because when you add script heavy stuff into a game that already chugs it will literally break.

                • It's absolutely ridiculous. You need to ground space travel in people who dream of going to the stars but are stuck due to it being out of their means vs the people who do have the means. And you need to give the player many different possible backstories for how they attained these means. Either luck. Or piracy. Or they're a super engineer who built one. Or they're actually rich. Etc etc. You've got to give the player roleplay options to properly fill this in.

                  Yeah, the game starts you off as a laborer working on a job site that can't even afford have a ship permanently on station, then you're just given a decent starter ship that's worth more than most other small ships and that's it you're set until you can get a better one or make meaningful upgrades to it. The Frontier really should have been a non-modifiable, non-sellable ship that's just there to paper over the issue of you needing a ship until you can buy, find, or steal one for yourself.

                  The powers in particular seem like they can be VERY powerful and will remain strong even when you raise damage significantly.

                  Yeah, it feels like ME1 biotics all over where they're just free hard CC options that can lock down entire rooms as every enemy is stuck ragdolling around for 30 seconds each. They really need to just get shunted to zero-g movement with maybe some "disoriented" debuff instead of ragdolling as they drift around. Enemies can literally maneuver just fine in zero-g and it even makes sense that a bunch of people used to fighting onboard ships that can lose or regain gravity at any moment wouldn't just go limp if gravity suddenly got a bit weird.

                  • The Frontier really should have been a non-modifiable, non-sellable ship that's just there to paper over the issue of you needing a ship until you can buy, find, or steal one for yourself.

                    It should have been trash too, literally falling apart, practically space junk. But they made Constellation into this fantasy of a secret society of explorers that flies through the unknown killing literally everything on every single planet they visit with near limitless resources from their benevolent CEO billionaire with bottomless pockets because he's just in it for the "passion" of exploring space (I'm hopeful that this turns out to not be true later on, but I have low expectations).

                    The ship they give the player to start out with is too good. And fundamentally starts the game off on the wrong foot.

                    Having the player need to beg/borrow/steal to get their foothold in space would fundamentally put the player in a headspace of feeling grateful for what they have. Alternate start mods can solve this, and then modifications to ship prices and so on can tie it all together.

                    I think part of the problem here is that Bethesda are scared of making their game too roleplay heavy. They have always tried to avoid any limitation on freedom of the player, no matter the skill of the player. This makes the game fun for anyone but comes at a considerable expense to storytelling.

                    One of the main problems is that a spaceship is the price of just fifty guns. But this is because looting is boring and they don't want to force the player to do too much of it just to survive.

                    Another problem is probably the inventory system itself, allowing the player to carry too much. I think if you have crew on a ship you should be able to order your crew to loot a vessel/spacestation/facility for you(after clearing it of enemies). This would eliminate the need to painstakingly search a facility from top to bottom. You would do "crew action>loot location" and then some time would pass and you'd get a list of all objects in the location and the option to load them onto your ship cargo or not. With this kind of feature you can then limit what the player can carry more significantly (2-3 guns, some medical equipment, ammunition). The general point here being that if you're the captain of a starship with a crew you should be able to use that crew, and this ties into fixing problems with the pricing. If you increase the pricing of everything then you also need to increase the loot you get and make doing that looting enjoyable in some way. Obviously a space encounter needs to somehow give the player enough loot to pay for that encounter too and turn a profit on top otherwise you're just encouraging the player to avoid it all.

                    Money sinks need finding to make up for this. Fuel probably being the biggest one. Infinite generated local missions on settled planets need to be worth enough to get the player enough fuel to get into space. And they need to be fun too. That or thievery in some way. Robbing Galbank or some corporation ought to be a viable alternative for a quick buck but come with the negative effect of them sending people to kill you later.

                    I can seriously think of a lot with regards to overhauling this. On the same scale as Requiem for Skyrim.

                    • their benevolent CEO billionaire with bottomless pockets because he's just in it for the "passion" of exploring space (I'm hopeful that this turns out to not be true later on, but I have low expectations).

                      The best reading of it is that he's a bored and lonely old man who thinks space is neat and throws some pocket change at a little clubhouse full of people who'll pretend to be his friends where he can hang out instead of working, and he only really gets invested once the weird shit starts happening. He's still too friendly and whitewashed for the character to really land though.

                      I think if you have crew on a ship you should be able to order your crew to loot a vessel/spacestation/facility for you(after clearing it of enemies). This would eliminate the need to painstakingly search a facility from top to bottom. You would do "crew action>loot location" and then some time would pass and you'd get a list of all objects in the location and the option to load them onto your ship cargo or not. With this kind of feature you can then limit what the player can carry more significantly (2-3 guns, some medical equipment, ammunition).

                      Exactly. Even just some option at the end where you do a quick time skip like waiting or sleeping and it gives you a menu with all the stuff that's not literal trash, to then dump straight into the cargo hold. Hell, take it a step further and let all the trash guns and armor get turned into irrecoverable bulk packages just to compress it all and avoid the serious slowdown that having tons of junk in your inventory/cargo causes, so instead of dozens of various modded maelstroms you just have "crate of ten shit guns" that's just vendor trash from that point on.

                      FO76 eventually added bulk area looting for dead enemies, so the same general principle shouldn't be too hard.

                      • There are some downsides to this looting concept. One being that finding an interesting book or audiolog that sends you on a quest somewhere will lose some context. Instead of finding it on the body of someone with environmental storytelling because you searched the place yourself it would be something your crew comes to you with and "in addition to the usual loot, we found this which is particularly interesting on a dead victim of the Spacers".

                        There's less incentive to thoroughly comb every nook and cranny if you can just have your crew do it. Hmmmmmmmmm. Perhaps an alternative to this is to have your companions do the search as you go along. Why not have them loot? Pick up stuff over x value. Interesting items/weapons. Have voicelines remarking on the stuff they pick up. Shout "we found something interesting over here" for important finds. Have the player and the crew loot together as part of the experience. Maybe don't allow this to happen until AFTER a player has cleared a dungeon, encouraging the player to focus on clearing first before looting because then they get the help of crew members. And you don't get that jarring experience of looting mid combat this way.

                        This can also allow you to keep the limitation of 1 companion for the clearance phase then having the whole crew come in to do the looting phase. Although I suspect the majority of people out there mod in the ability for multiple companions. I feel pretty strongly that 3-4 players in the player's group would make much more interesting gameplay because you can have companions talk to each other BG3 style.

                • Why would people work as gunner/engineer on someone else's spaceship if they have enough money to own their own?

                  For a wage? Like, idk, they still need income no matter how cheap starships are

            • In the future nothing will be handled by e-mail.

              All the quests in futurey games where you have to go to some place in person instead of just calling someone on your phone or sending an e-mail are... upsetting.

        • We'll figure out how to toggle the "essential" flag and then their days will end.

      • Yeah that's a good one. The crimson fleet stuff rules too. I want to make a mod that adds more communism flavor to the crimson fleet (or takes out all the individualist bs from freestar collective). Pirates are cool but building communism in space capitalism is way cooler

    • If you tell me I have to play either Harry Potter games or No man skies but Bethesda, I'd choose the latter in a heartbeat.

    • BG3 is legitimately one of the best games I've ever played. They have to iron out the bugs still, frankly, but it was a pure blast to play through the game. One of the most impressive games I think I've ever seen, narratively, because of the sheer amount of choices with actual consequence there are in the game.

    • I'm waiting on the mods. That's what makes most Bethesda games good, lol.

    • It gets much better, but its a really shit first 15-20 levels. The game wants you to play it in a specific way and my god it's going to hurt you with boredom until you do.

You've viewed 86 comments.