Jill Stein hurts Donald Trump more than Kamala Harris, poll suggests
Jill Stein hurts Donald Trump more than Kamala Harris, poll suggests
A recent poll shows Jill Stein's appearance on the ballot might be hurting Republicans more than Democrats, a reversal from 2016.
A new poll suggests that Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein is drawing more voters from former President Donald Trump than from Vice President Kamala Harris.
According to a Noble Predictive Insights survey released last week, Harris holds a narrow lead over Trump in a hypothetical three-way race. With Stein on the ballot, Harris' lead expands, pointing to a potential spoiler effect similar to what many Democrats blamed Stein for doing to Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election.
For Trump, the emergence of Stein as a potential spoiler may be a critical factor in battleground states, where even a small shift in votes could determine the outcome. For Harris, Stein's candidacy could paradoxically provide an unexpected advantage, drawing votes from Trump and narrowing his pathway to victory.
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Insanity. Anyone willing to switch to Stein should be at least as willing to switch to Harris. Someone get this goddamned grifter out of politics
People are allowed to stand for election without engaging in your idiotic 2 party system
You're allowed to do whatever you want, I just want you to understand that you're choosing to literally do nothing 🤷♂️ you're not making a stand, you're not sending a message, and you're not enacting change. You're voting for Donald Trump while making yourself feel like you're fighting an ideological battle.
I'm not even fucking American 😂. I just believe that people have the right to stand and vote for a legitimate candidate.
There is no legitimate third-party candidate in a first past the post system.
Of course they are
Not being likely to win doesn't make them illegitimate.
The UK is a FPTP system with 7.5 significant parties
The UK is a FPTP system with 7.5 significant parties
... I'm not sure how to break this to you, but the UK is a monarchy and has literally never elected their leader.
FPTP isn't nearly as problematic in a system with distributed representation like Parliament, the Senate, or the House. It is massively problematic when electing a singular leader.
It is massively problematic when electing a singular leader.
No, it's not. That's how all of the elections you just listed work. That's how first past the post works.
Seek help. And an education.
Whenever I'm in an ml community I love seeing what's down voted and why. Always a trip....
democracy enjoyers when people vote for candidates that better represent their positions: 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡
My best friend best represents my position but voting for him does nothing. Rigid morals that have no impact on improving anything are pointless.
Your position is far more rigid than most. But you dont realize it. 🤷 "You must vote this way" give everyone a break and go back to your moronic cave. If harris or trump wants someones vote they need to earn it through policies. Like not being genocidal weirdos.
Yes fptp has mathematical properties but heres the thing: people dont care and refusing to acknowledge that fact makes you doomed to failure. Go spend your energy getting fptp replaced.
So your response is to insult me and tell me to fix everything? I can see I'm dealing with a true scholar here.
I'm simply pointing out that you can have an impact on the outcome or not. You don't have to like that reality, I don't, the it doesn't make it anyb less true.
I simply pointed out the logical flaws in your thought process. If that insults you 🤷. Lifes rough, find a better use of your time solving the problems with the process than bitching at people who think your ideology is shit and then being surprised when they tell you so.
Telling me what I do and don't realize is insulting. It would be like me saying you don't realize that you're possibly hurting millions of people so you can keep a moral high ground.
I don't care about ideology and dogmatic shit like that. I care about facts and logic. And the hard fact is Harris or Trump will be president. That's fact. You can rationalize all you want but you have a choice between the two, and a chance to impact the outcome but are choosing not to. This is the trolly problem where you sit back and watch the randomized switch because you're against killing people. You could choose the rail that would cause less suffering and are choosing a third option that has no impact. I don't get why this concept is so hard to understand.
Poor feefees. You clearly don't care about facts and logic.
Because facts and logic would lead you to the realization that only Harris can fix her appeal to voters, and that 3rd party voters dont effect the election outcome for president. If someone is voting 3rd party they have good reasons for it. And no amount of bitching at them will change those reasons.
You not agreeing with those reasons is a you problem not a them problem. If harris is the more popular candidate she'll win thats how it works. If shes not she wont. these are decisions only harris can make about ber campaign.
Fun fact: many 3rd party voters are also Republicans who wouldn't have voted for harris anyways. Are they also helping trump?
k
Donald Trump is a threat to democracy 😭😭😭 now shut up and vote for the candidate, peasant. You'll have a primary when you earn it.
I love how the ml community plays off how big a threat Trump is. History repeating itself.
Everyone knows that he's a fascist. We also know Kamala and her cabinet is gonna be hardly better, so if you're gonna vote, don't waste it on a genocide enabler.
We already know all the talking points of "pushing her left", we know y'all ain't gonna do shit, because you didn't do it with Biden and you certainly wouldn't have done it with Obama, it's always people who voted third party out there organizing while y'all wait for the next election to come around for you to pretend you're doing something.
You'd be right if first past the post didn't exist, unfortunately the game is rigged
Democracy enjoyers understand that this version of democracy doesn't care about third parties 🤷♂️ vote for the lesser evil and campaign locally for vote reform
doesn't sound like very much of a democracy, does it?
It's reality. Campaign for vote reform.
And Democrats will do that, right? They'll remove corporate money and superpacs and the electrical college? Abolish first past the post?
No, or at least not at the federal level, that's why I saying to campaign locally for vote reform.
Vote reform is needed because first past the post is a bad system. Third party candidates are pointless because of the first past the post system. You can acknowledge that the system is broken and work towards fixing it while still making a choice that has an actual effect.
You know that Trump is a worse option, and you know that voting for a leftist third party will make it easier for him to be elected. These are simple facts. You can either choose to use the information or ignore it and prioritize your feelings. Maybe you don't have queer friends, or female friends, or minority friends and none of that matters to you 🤷♂️
I did vote Harris but not because she'll do reform, because she is the only "not trump" I can vote for in a blue state.
I'm not voting for the "lesser evil" when the "lesser evil" commits a genocide. There is no dilemma when we are counting genocides. When do you start realising that both are serving the 1% interests? When does this end - if the dems commit 3 genocides and the republicans 4? If the dems commit 10 and the republicans 11? The red line is long crossed.
Don't tell us what to do lmfao.
Congrats, your actions likely lead to even more Palestinian deaths. Yay, you "took a stand." The extra dead will be so thankful.
It's so funny that you think the democrats aren't the genocidal maniacs that have unconditionally supported and armed Israel. It doesn't get much worse than this, Israel has got literally everything it has asked for lmao. The problem is you thinking they are in any way holding back, but go off. As Joe said, no president has supported Israel as much as I did.
Tell us how not so evil the democrats, which are funded by the military industrial complex more than the republicans, are. Tell us how they work for our interests, not the oligarchs, please.
I've said this a million times, if the two candidates were Hitler and Hitler again, but he funded a little bit more the healthcare system who would you vote for? None is the answer. When the dilemma consists of ideologies and political/social trajectories that are 100% opposite to your ideal ones, the lesser evil doesn't exist.
Don't blame the dead on the people who have done more than the 99% for the cause, I can't take you seriously that way. You can blame the oligarchs and the fascists/liberals who don't care.
the democrats, which are funded by the military industrial complex more than the republicans
[citation needed]
Tell us how they work for our interests, not the oligarchs, please.
Yes, they're all oligarchs. Stein included - her net worth is nearly 10x Harris's and Walz's combined, you fucking dolt. You're not moving the needle, you're just helping a worse candidate gain office.
I've said this a million times, if the two candidates were Hitler and Hitler again, but he funded a little bit more the healthcare system who would you vote for? None is the answer.
Yes, I would fucking vote for Healthcare Hitler. I don't care that you feel bad while doing it, i care about what the potential outcomes are. You get hitler either way, why would you not make a choice that leads to a better future?
You're so concerned with your own feelings that you're actively trying to make everyone's lives worse just so you don't feel bad. The only positive that your vanity vote provides anyone is that your fragile feelings are protected.
sorry, I don't vote for hitlers :/ if Harris wanted me to vote for her this election, she could've run on not being Hitler (as 101,000 uncommitted voters in Michigan, a very important swing state, asked her to), but she didn't, so I won't. I really hope her strategy of courting all 6 moderate republicans in the country at the expense of anyone to the left of the party works out, but if 2016 is anything to go off of, it won't.
Here's your citation: https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus?ind=D Democrat Senators are funded more by the military than the republican ones, and that's only the above the table money. And before you say I'm cherry picking, I know I am. I'm not trying to argue that republicans are better, they are not. I'm just giving perspective on how little they differ.
I don't care if Stein is an oligarch, she very well could be(although personal wealth is not a
Someone should invade the USA and bring democracy.
That's one opinion, and it certainly has its place, but it also leads to weak candidates like Hillary Clinton. Not surprisingly, if you push weak candidates and argue that we should vote for them because they're not as bad as the person on the other side, a lot of voters will stay home.
After all, if you're going to hell, does it matter if it's slightly slower or slightly faster? Yeah, it probably does, but that story takes a long time to tell, and many people have short attention spans.
After all, if you're going to hell, does it matter if it's slightly slower or slightly faster
So you don't actually care about the people being genocided, just how it affects you? Voting Stein will lead to more Palestinian deaths, and you are explicitly saying that you're okay with that. Cool. You sound great.
Wait, what? You know that Harris and Biden are currently doing the genocide, right?
Democracy when theres only one choice is called something else.
You should try to enact change locally, then. You throwing your vote away doesn't change what our system is, it just elects the candidate that will kill more people.
Hey would you look at that, greens and PSL also run local candidates and greens have more than 150 in office.
Anyway I'm not voting for genocide little buddy. It's weird you're trying to convince me to.
Anyway I'm not voting for genocide little buddy. It's weird you're trying to convince me to.
Keep telling yourself that, friend. A vote for Stein is a vote for a worse genocide. I'm sorry you prioritize your feelings over their lives.
There is no worse genocide, that's not a thing, and I've already voted for Claudia. Stein is a fine choice for those that can't vote for the best candidate though. No one, not one human with a brain and sense of humanity would vote for genocide, so two candidates can be struck off as choices.
There is no worse genocide
Okay. The extra dead will feel great about that fact.
No one, not one human with a brain and sense of humanity would vote for genocide, so two candidates can be struck off as choices.
Okay. Protect your feelings at the expense of Palestinian lives, that's your right as an American with no vested interest in others. I'm just pointing out what you're actually accomplishing.
You're explicitly voting to send US troops to aide the Palestinian genocide. You don't get to speak about them or try to shame anyone else you (censored for civility as there are neolib mods exclusively). I hope you and your family get what you so gleefully vote for others.
I'm sure the soldiers that will kill themselves and the Palestinians they murdered appreciate you voting for the "lesser" genocide.
I'll keep fighting for people's lives instead of your empty virtue signal for Stein. I don't care that you feel better because you feel like you aren't voting for genocide. You are enabling Trump, and he has been very explicit that he wants to give Israel more.
Enjoy your warm fuzzy feelings for doing what is wrong. That's totally your right 🤷♂️
A third party getting 5% of the nation wide vote qualifies them for federal election funding next election.
Voting 3rd party is enacting change
I'm sorry that I live in reality and like to focus on actual outcomes instead the little butterflies I get when I make empty idealistic speeches.
Getting Trump elected better represents your position? Then by all means - that's the only thing your vote can actually accomplish in her bucket.
🥱
Voting third party under the US system doesn't improve society so, like you, the meme kind of misses the point.
Voting
third party under the US systemin the imperial core* doesn’t improve societyFTFY. Organizing and direct action gets concessions
So don't vote is your message. As a PSL voter I agree, but i want you to internalize what you're saying.
He never once said that, you people are so dogmatic.
Neither Dems nor Republicans support rcv at the national level, so...
Doesn't make you putting words in their mouth any less dishonest. Or are you of a mind that people can say and do anything if they think the ends justify it?
Subtext exists, logical results of decisions exist. If neither party are going to do the thing you suggest, and you don't want someone to vote third party, the only thing left is not voting.
My wife is one. She voted for Trump in '16. She won't vote for him again there's no way she'll vote for Kamala.