3w ago

I did it, lads.

Apparently "nationalism is bad" is an uncivil take. Unless there's another reason someone would ban this comment... 🤔

80 comments

Lmao
Try this:

Criticizing the US, Russia, Israel, and Hamas all in one go, gets banned anyways.
Edit: Btw, those Chinese students aren't necessary "brainwashed".
There's a chinese idiom called: 隔墙有耳 (Literally meaning: There's an ear on the other side of the wall)
They know everyone is watching and listening, so they don't feel safe speaking what they actually believe, especially not in public.
People criticize the government all the time, behind close doors with people you know.
- lol wtf... that comment was not even bad... deff some power trippin going on
  
  the two dudes who lead lemmy development and run both lemmy.ml and lemmygrad both deeply and truly suck at being decent human beings
- Edit: Btw, those Chinese students aren't necessary "brainwashed".
  Valid, and perhaps the "brainwashed" statement was an unfair one, though in at least a couple cases, the emotion behind the words felt very genuine. On the flip side, there was at least one standout conversation with a particular student where the opposite was true, so perhaps each case deserves more nuance than the blanket statement of "they're brainwashed."
  EDIT: That ban is actually beautiful, btw. The hate the "regulars" perpetuate while going untouched versus bans on comments like this speaks far louder about the belief structure of the mods than any back and fourth with them could.
- We really should defederate from this shit
  
  infosec.pub
  defederates the big 3 (lemmygrad.ml, hexbear.net, lemmy.ml)
  
  Yes, until then we can each do small things like
  Crosspost actual decent content in a .ml comm to a non-.ml comm (a perfect opportunity to grow smaller comms)
  Call out their BS whenever you see it on other instances
  Screenshot their Tankie propaganda and post it here
  Advise newcomers
  Make memes about it
  Downvote any .ml community post you come across and then see 1st point
  .world has already defed'd 2 of the 3 of the Tankie Triad, but I've been seeing a lot of "sticking heads in the sand"
  
  You can always choose an instance that does, or block the instance in your settings.
  
  I have no idea why it’s taking so long.
- Ehhh, I've gotten close to Chinese people and a part of it is genuine, talking one on one. However they are also filled with valid criticism for America as well (although I am British and generally tell them to think what they like about the USA, I couldn't care less).
  Things like the Taiwan issue is hard. It's like "we won't invade Taiwan" but also "America should stop giving Taiwan weapons to defend itself". And also usual circular reasoning "Taiwan is our because it just is"
  What doesn't help is western people's attitudes. Many Chinese people know life in the West is better. But I saw some British people on Xiaohongshu telling Chinese people "don't come here, we want to leave". They were telling the Chinese that education is expensive here, yet neglecting to say that our definition of inexpensive education is like other european countries with free university, compared to how it is here where all education is free up until 18, then universities are paid for 3-9k per year on a very generous loan with low interest that is paid off by extra tax and has an expiry date where it's written off entirely. Or how hard it is to find a job, when China has a far bigger unemployment rate, and those who are employed have to run a 'rat race'. But life is seemingly better there because they have big cities with mass transit systems and you can order oreos to your house at 3am.
  Don't get me wrong- I think China would actually be really nice to visit as a holiday destination. But I'd hate to actually live and work there.
  And that's not talking about censorship, lack of freedom of thought or the freedom of religion
- You were supposed to only criticize the US and Russia, you homophobe!
- People criticize the government all the time, behind close doors with people you know.
  Local girls? In my neighborhood?
- Getting banned from .ml is a badge of honor!
  Don't even feel bad
- That EXE crash error was really coming from the mod lmao

I dated a Chinese student at university. She seemed alright until somehow the topic of Tibet came up, and then she went full tankie describing how the Tibetan people were nearly subhuman, living terrible lives with no ability to care for themselves.
I've heard people say similar shit about indigenous Americans and yeah I think it's safe to say that you cannot understate the dangers of propaganda and nationalism.
- Oh man, Asians hate so many other Asians so ferverently it's impressive. I knew a Japanese girl whose mom threatened to disown her if she dated any "Chinese hell bastards" (which was in fact, every Chinese person.)
- Ain't no racism like Asian racism. I lived with a Chinese buddy of mine for almost 10 years. He said American racism has nothing on Asian racism. Some of the Chinese and Japanese people legitimately despise each other. Long history of atrocities between them.
  
  Well you've never asked a European about gypsies.
  
  That long history can be found in a lot of places with "zero" racism, like.. look at all of Europe, everyone at war all the time.
  
  Same with Korea and Japan...
  Imperial Japan did some fucked up shit.
- Can't blame her. Without exposure to other cultures, its hard to have an open mind.
- That's horrifying honestly
  I would've left the room

Ah yes good ol Rule 1 "Bigotry" the classic .ml go-to
Whenever you bring up the bans though the more prominent .ml users will proclaim that people mostly get banned for "bigotry" on .ml and there's definitely no problem with opposing viewpoints.
This is the "bigotry" they speak of
- They can stay over there, and I will stay over here. Glory to the Fediverse.

American nationalism is bad because it's an empire. That take is allowed.
Chinese nationalism, however, is good because it's also an empire.

Ahhh. The vague and often confusingly unexplainable “Rule 1” violation on .ml that all the minions residing there always seem to find a way to pretend doesn’t exist when their beloved shithole of an instance’s strapped down oppressive bias is under attack.
- I got mine yesterday too!
  I mentioned bending over for dictators and they claimed it's implied homophobia. Before getting banned, I asked if we're back to assuming everyone on the Internet is male and got replied "oh look, I'm not a bigot, it's implied misogyny not implied homophobia"...
  The expression isn't about any specific gender or sexuality, it's about the power dynamic... It's about the fact that people will do anything to please their masters.
  
  it's implied misogyny
  Are strap-ons not a thing in their echo chambered world? It sounds like they have no problem with kink shaming.
  
  Yeah, I've heard "bent over a barrel" in movies made for kids.

Have you figured it out yet? Brainwashed China IS maga.
Stethoscope theory, but more like a horshoe shape.

I got banned for saying China and the DPRK are oppressive regimes and that Ukraine has a right to exist because I violated “rule 1”. The irony lmao

pretty much par for the course on lemmy, you can't have any interesting discussions about anything because you just get banned before it starts to get exciting.
seems to be most of the internet these days though. Dead internet theory and what not, although im convinced it should be altered slightly into three groups rather than two.
people who are genuine real people and act like them (10-20%)
people functionally indistinguishable from a bash script running coded responses (i think this is like 40% of the internet)
chatgpt (whatever the remaining percent is, who cares.)

What's rule #1?
- Be civil and nice.
  This is the specific rule as it is written in the sidebar.
  Which is funny, because if you go back through my comments in that same thread, I had far more uncivil and mean comments elsewhere. But the one that got removed and banned is the one that speaks to lived experiences with Chinese (and American) nationalism in a fair and reasoned way? I was unsurprised when I discovered I had a ban. I was grinning like an idiot when I saw what post did it.
- They don't like u and want u banned but can't find an actual rule violation.
- “Bigotry”

Noooo! The narrative!

It's not hard to do.
- You know, I've said far more rude and direct things. I've straight called people tankies, verbalized that they're being dishonest, and actively told them to go fuck themselves for the way they treat others in Yog threads of memes .ml. But the paraphrased "fuck you, you're a dishonest shill and engaging with your backwards pseudo-intellectualism is a waste of everyone's time" is far less rude than "I have lived experiences with Chinese nationalism justifying crimes against sovereign nations"?
  It's almost like the ban is a whole lot less about how I said things and the way I've treated people, and a whole lot more focused on what I said.

Here's my inexcusable offense.
- What a champ.
  Remember, it's only leftist to allow Eastern empires to rule people through show of force. Wanting no show of force, economic or otherwise, is "centrist" or, heaven forbid "liberal."

The brainwashed ideologies in Chinese Students
sigh
During the first year of the Korean War, Edward Hunter, an American journalist who had worked in wartime intelligence, and post-war with the CIA, coined (or, more accurately, first popularised) the term brainwashing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Hunter_(journalist)#Journalism
In March 1958, Hunter testified before the US House of Representatives' House Committee on Un-American Activities. He described the US and NATO as losing the Cold War because of the communists' advantage in propaganda and psychological manipulation. He felt that the West lost the Korean War for being unwilling to use its advantage in atomic weapons
It's a bit funny to hear people use the term without recognizing it's tortured and sensationalist history. "We've been tricked into not kicking off a nuclear war" isn't what most people think of when they hear "brainwashing". But during the height of the Red Scare, that's what Goldwater conservatives and John Bircher reactionaries were arguing for.
- Brainwashed is the appropriate term to describe nationalistic ideology, yes
  
  No no, nationalism is freethinking because [checks notes] an American in the Cold War was a lunatic.
- It was Hunter's variation of the Chinese term "xinao", meaning "cleaning the brain."
- social situations must be exhausting in your life huh
  
  I've definitely upset a lot of people with a little bit of history.
- That's very interesting, and I genuinely do appreciate the history lesson, but what exactly are you trying to communicate? That brainwashing is only possible in North America because that's the population it was coined for? That the act only constitutes brainwashing if it's coupled with calls for violence? That brainwashing is a strictly government term and using it colloquially has no meaning? That I should fully detail every term with a unique historical significant etymology?
  There's a lot of weird insinuations and half takes that don't add up to a complete idea in this post.
  
  The term is an invention of propaganda used to dismiss outside views. You'll see it in the Christian community to describe why kids come out as gay or transgender as often as by state officials describing why foreigners stubbornly refuse to accept Western economic orthodoxy.
  There’s a lot of weird insinuations and half takes that don’t add up
  To understand why a CIA agent would describe people critical of the Korean War as unable to think for themselves, you do need to learn about the Red Scare first.
  If things don't add up, go out and fill in more of the variables.
- sigh
  Oh you POOR TAXED THING!!
  
  🤣 taxed is getting worked into my shit talk ty ty ty

80 comments