4w ago

I have a hard time making friends. Anyone else? Any tips?

I'm in my late 20s. In the last years, I've moved a few times and tried out a bunch of things. And discovered I have a hard time getting close to people.

I used to think I just need to go out more. But I found out that most people I meet just don't seem to "fit" with me.

Let's say I meet some interesting people, who are funny, smart and have shared interests with me. We make a bit of small talk, hang out, and then I go home exhausted, feeling like I just came out of a work meeting that should have been an email. And given from how they rarely invite me back, I guess the feeling is mutual.

Someone told me I am quite cold towards people I don't know well. Part of that might be that my usual way of talking is a bit emotionless. Another part could be a consequence of me basically going through the script in my head. "How is work these days? Cool. Yeah, me too. Yup." I don't want to be this way. But I also don't want to go into full sales presentation mode, because that feels really wrong.

I used to think I would just become misanthropic. But there are people where I just click with. Talking to them is not a chore, but something I look forward to. And they seem to enjoy my company as well. Some events seem to have a lot more of "my people", some less.

If you read my rambling until here, thanks. I genuinely don't know any more. Am I becoming the old sod sitting on his porch yelling at kids? Or am I just spending time on the wrong people? Have you experienced something similar? And how could I change this?

55 comments

Here's some advice from someone with a high nat charisma role on birth:
Gaining friends, lovers, or even acquaintances isn't a goal to be worked towards - rather - the best kinds of these relationships are byproducts of mutual interest and experiences.
If your efforts are only going towards showing up at social events to participate in small talk, then no wonder it feels like you're coming home from work. Because that's the same behavior expected at work.
This "social script" we're expected to follow at work is to maintain social standing to get work done, rather than grow and deepen connections.
Basically, work socialization and personal socialization should be approached differently, and taking the work approach to your private life will likely lead to the same kind of relationships you're building at work: simple and makes your work easier. (Rather than relationships that are deep, and make your life more colorful.)
Here's something to try the next time you find a group you want to be a part of:
1st: Don't talk about work itself. Talk about the actions you take at work. Don't say, "I work in sales" say "I sell shit to those that don't need it."
Talk about the specific actions you take, in work or anywhere else, and personalize them.
The fundamentals of any relationship are built on the aligned behaviors of individuals. The easiest way to determine if the way you behave is similar to others is to talk about how you act. And if you can add in your own opinion about those actions, even better. These small things communicate who you are much better than anything else. Actions speak louder than words, so try your best to speak about yourself as the actions you take - use verbs to describe yourself, not nouns.
2nd: Don't talk about yourself unless asked. Instead, engage with others to learn about them. Specially, what actions they like.
If you know someone is interested in something like bikes. Don't ask what bikes they like, ask if they "like the thrill of downhill mountain biking," or "prefer a chill bike ride through the park."
Do they watch movies? Don't ask "did you like that Movie?" Rather, ask "did you like pacing of that Movie?"
Verbs should also be at the heart of your inquiries into others, as they describe the actions others have that might align with yours.
That is - good relationships are built on mutual action, not mutual interest.
So don't ask, "How was work?" ask "What projects are you working on?" Then follow that inquiry up with more specifics on their behaviour through that project - "How hard was the project to complete? Who got in your way?"
Basically, socialize as if the people you want to hang around are all the main characters within their own show. They have adventures, villians, love interests, etc - and just spending time learning what those are, will make them feel closer to you. Once you know enough about them, you can begin asking them about the events in their own show. That is, in time, your small talk will grow from, "how was work?" to "did you get your evil manager fired over their bullshit harrasment?"
And that's the difference between a friend, and someone you know at work.
Eventually, when you learn about these people more, you'll discover the behaviour they have that aligns with yours. And eventually, you'll begin doing stuff together with them.
They like casual bike rides? Cool, give it a shot with them! They like seeing matinees on Sunday? Cool join em!
The more you show an interest in how people behave, the more likely it is they will want to include you as part of that behaviour.
3rd. Encourage others. Be their hype man.
You know how they act? Great. Encourage it. Sometimes, even encourage it with you included.
They love bike riding? Great. Tell them about the park near your house they should try. Heck. You can even join em.
People often have goals tied to their favorite behaviours. If you know what those goals are, you can encourage them to pursue them. When they succeed, you will now be a part of it they'll remember.
In time, you keep up the above, you'll be surrounded by people you know well, and whom you've shared a lot of activities with.
And they will without question enjoy you in their lives for it.

I'm also in my late 20s, and I'm an immigrant (changed continents)
When I meet new people, ai usually have a hard time coming up with something to talk about, so I had (still have) a hard time making new friends.
What helped me was to have continuous contact with people in a focused environment, for example: with around 6 months of office attendance I started warming up to my new colleagues (which eventually became friends), even though we were usually talking about work back then, we started to talk about it less and less up to a point where we don't even work together anymore, but keep in touch
I found another of such environments in sports practices as well: don't want to talk about anything? Fine, let's just keep this ball rolling back and forth" but then eventually (again after a few months of continuous contact with the same group of people) things started to warm up a little
So to sum it up I'd say: patience is key, it usually takes a while before prople start to get along well
- Thanks, yeah, that sounds similar. Good for you to have the patience, a different continent (I'm assuming with a language barrier?) must be doing social life on hard mode
  
  Not that much, really I moved from Brazil to Portugal and I was surprised by both the culture similarity and the number of brazillians around
  Still, when I arrived the closest people I knew were 2000km away hhaahaha, so even small changes can be challenging at times

you need hobbies
- I have a bunch. Maybe I should have mentioned that. I do martial arts and a bunch of random sports, I do some nonprofit stuff, I have a bunch of pretty social tech hobbies. I went on a holiday with some people I barely know, and some people I mostly know. I couldn't fit more in my schedule without impacting work and so on.
  It's more that the people I meet there extremely rarely make the jump from someone you greet while walking past to someone you look forward to talk to.

I can certainly relate to you, but unfortunately don't have any tips to offer.
- Add me to the list

The biggest thing is that if you want to hang out with people you will need to take the initiative to make it happen and not rely on being invited. If you are already doing that, keep it up! But that is frequently the second hurdle for people after not going out and being social which is the biggest barrier to meeting new people and it sounds like you are going out.
The other thing is being a little more open with new people while avoiding an info dump. Mention a couple things and see if they respond, and make sure to express interest in things they bring up when possible. Like I simply don't care about sports but can talk about someone else's enjoyment of sports instead of dismissing all sports talk.
But I can also relate to how some people feel like a chore to talk to and others come easy. But not everyone who is easy to talk to shares interests, which kinda sucks. That is why I haven't really made new friends for years as I have four friends who are easy to talk to and we interact daily online, and honestly expanding my friend group is intimidating after the last attempt to expand based on a hobby ended up with most of them being maga idiots. It was worth the try though!
- Oh, and for the maga idiots, so much yes. I'm lucky that most people at the local range are chill, but some... I am here to relax and kill some innocent cardboard pieces, not listen to you trying to convince me how the woke has ruined the country.
- That's good advice. It's a numbers game. You invite ten people, and you're lucky if three show up. But better than nothing.

The key is common interests. I'm into theatre and roller derby, so I participate in those communities, and friendships result from enjoying shared interests.

An important bit of information that's missing here is what kind of culture are you in/from on the coconuts/peaches scale?
(Coconuts - hard to get to know initially but very warm once that hurdle is overcome. Peaches - warm to everyone but very difficult to get truly close to. Finland vs. USA, for example)
- this is such a cool concept ty!
  where did you hear about it?
  
  It is a cool concept. Nice way to think about it. Although, I would say some cultures just have more distance, even between close friends.
  
  I've known about it for too long to say, I'm afraid!

As someone in my late 20’s and who’s moved around quite a bit, I will talk to most people about most things. If I want to know something (within reason), I’ll ask. I’ve made friends and formed a trivia group in a shared Lyft when they did them, just by asking if they liked trivia. I wanted to know about careers at a museum in NYC so I asked the woman working the desk and we got to chatting. I asked someone about the beer they got at a show and that lead to more conversations about our mutual interests. If I see someone wearing merch or something I like, I’ll tell them. These open conversations and can lead to more. Sometimes they don’t. Sometimes they lead to friendships and sometimes they don’t but it’s still a pleasant conversation nonetheless. It just depends on the person. If I embarrass myself I can laugh it off and take comfort it knowing I probably won’t see these people again or one of us will forget in a few days. It is harder if you’re a guy. I am also a guy but I have a baby face and have been told I have a “very non threatening vibe.” YMMV. I will add I have autism and I think the benefit of that is just breezing right past small talk.
- I fear I might come across as either arrogant, cold, or creepy.
  I've been told that in a talk that I perceived as mutually friendly and casual, they wondered why I disliked the other person so much. I guess I am insecure, and it manifests as coldness?
  I am physically unimpressive, average height and pretty slender, but I had people recoil when I was mildly angry at them. Looks like angry me has a vibe of "one of us will leave in an ambulance, I don't care who". Meh, could be worse, it helped with beggars every now and then.
  And for the creepy part... To be fair, I proudly qualify as a pervert, I just aim to be a friendly pervert. Jokes aside, I seem to be in a weird middle ground where people who casually know me think I'm sane, and people who know me well think I'm sane, but somewhere in the middle I guess I must be making too many dark jokes or something.
  Sorry for making this all about me, I guess I had to type it out once. Thanks for sharing your experience, maybe I just need to be bolder and give less of a fuck.

It sounds like you're trying to do forced corporate networking. I.e. create a relationship for the purpose of the relationship.
That doesn't work.
Find some activity you like to do, or volunteer somewhere. Show up a lot. Those are your friends now. They can introduce you to others.
- Sorry, I should have worded that differently. That is precisely what I don't want, of course.
  My issue is, I don't want to have a "linkedin" relationship with people I meet at, say, a sport I do. But I seem to be very picky about who I enjoy talking to. That sucks. I don't want to be like that. I'm cool with not being super close with everyone, but it would be nice to talk to more than two people without thinking.
  
  Networking gives you the former. Showing up has the potential (not guaranteed) for the latter.

Hello, my likely undiagnosed autistic friend.

I only find it hard because no one tries at all. St the beginning of my PhD I organized a ton of parties and near the end many in my own cohort would call on sick an hour before. We all have the same lives, I know they have no friends, what’s the point?
Luckily some of them were better than others but I feel people are so absorbed by their world and phones that they don’t step out much

Here is your problem:
hang out
It should be more on a regular basis with a focal point than just random meals. Board-gaming, glass-blowing, rock-climbing, something—what do you like or would be willing to try?
When you have another topic as the focal point of your meetup, there is less weight on you to have to purely carry the conversation nonstop. Join or start a movie-watching or hiking group, etc. There's so much out there. Forming a new group takes a lot of sustained effort over years, but if some new additions get interested enough to help run events, it gets way easier. Accept help quickly, after some brief vetting.
- I do a bunch of stuff, that's not the problem. But, for example, last time I went hiking with a group of strangers, I just had a bad time. I didn't talk much, I didn't enjoy the talk, I wished I was either alone or with the (rare) friend. And I cannot really blame the people around, they were as welcoming to me as they were to anyone else.
  What pisses me off most is that I wasn't always that way. I met one of my closest friends at a hike, we just hit off. Maybe it's a numbers game.
  
  Oh. Yes, then it is absolutely the numbers game at work. Out of 5-10 gatherings you attend, you might strike it off with 1 person... to be just an acquaintance at first. We have to put on really thick skin, and if any certain group just isn't working out, move on to find another; don't try to keep hoping things will improve (I mean, they might, but it's typically faster in my experience to just try different groups altogether).
  I think you're on the right path and just gotta keep going. Sorry that last event was discouraging, but don't give up!

you don't just become friends with people to become friends. there needs to be some glue that brings you two together.
so for example back when you were in primary school, you had that glue- you took the same class as someone or rode home in the same bus, etc.
as an adult, if you want to make friends, you need to find some glue. it could be working together, or playing dungeons and dragons, or a deep appreciation of black and white cinema. who knows
so i will suggest one thing and it will only really work if you live in Florida. go to kava bars. just go with your laptop and hang out there drinking kava and doing your own thing. go every once in a while and you will meet people and make friends. it's one of the few modern "3rd place" locations.

To make friends you first need to be a friend yourself... It starts with you...

I don't talk about work unless the other person brings it up. I stick with, how's it going or how's life. What's been going on with you since last time? Whatcha been up to?
Keep practicing having a natural conversation but try not to think of it as practice. I was super socially awkward when I was younger and have only gotten better at it with time. It gets easier.
- Maybe that was a bad example. Thanks, that is reassuring. However, I feel like I get better and flipping the switch and doing smalltalk / pretending to be social, but worse at actually being social. I fear I'll end up as a cranky old man yelling at the kids, and I'm not even 30.
  
  I believe in you.

You need to do stuff with people. A lot of friendship is based on shared experience. Just meeting someone isn't enough, you need to do something with them. So, hobbies, classes, volunteer groups, etc.

Your best bet is to find activities that you enjoy that you can do on a regular basis in an environment where you'll be around other people who also participate regularly. Sign up for a class, join a sports team, volunteer somewhere, find a local meetup group, or even just become a regular at a bar.
Making new friends definitely gets harder as we get older because people are busy and just don't have the same opportunities to casually yet regularly interact with strangers any more. As kids, most people repeatedly engaged with the same group of people on a daily or weekly basis due to school, sports, etc., and the familiarity that came with that made it relatively effortless to develop some friendships.
Even when I totally hit it off with people I've just met and we exchange contact details, I've rarely ever intentionally hung out with them again. The new friendships that I've formed as an adult were either with a friend of a friend or with people I happened to cross paths with many times before we ever intentionally made plans together. It's those repeated, low stakes interactions that have been most successful at forming new friendships.

Making friends is not easy (it can be frightening too) and takes time & patience.
Also you need to differentiate between true friendship (which is probably rarer than true love) and acquaintance. My best friend and I have been friends since we were 14 (we're well into our fifties, now). We know and appreciate a few other people, but there is only one of us for the other and that is despite meeting a few very remarkable persons in our respective lives (and living away from one another), friendship is very rare. Don't try to force it.
It also require a lot of trial and errors. Friendship is rare which means simply means that often it will not be friendship. No matter how nice the person is. And then one day, without them or you being bad persons, your relation will come to an end. They're aren't friends, that's all.
And then there is that... Remember my best friend? Our first encounter back in school where he just landed and where I was considered one of the smart-ass, we almost fight together because we were, and all those years later still are, at the complete political opposite and we both wanted to prove the others who was the smartes-ass and, surprise, we both were punished for that by the school which let us chose between being expelled for a few days (it was a strict school) or spend a couple hours locked in classroom and talk together, calmly and under distant surveillance. We decided we would talk—our teachers back then were smart and I wish for any kid to be taught by the same kind. We talked and we talked more and, despite our differences or maybe because of them, we realized we could learn a lot from the other and that we kinda appreciated the other's being there. So we kept on talking after the punition was over and... never stopped.
All of that to say, don't be afraid to try to go towards people whose company you would not think you could enjoy that may be worth a try ;)
Like suggested, hobbies are also great way to meet people. Younger, I was into model making (little planes and tanks). I met a few real nice people, a few assholes too. I was (and still am to this day) into history which was another opportunity to meet like-minded people. Any hobby will do.
Also, if you're anything like me making friends is difficult because, well, I'm so fucking shy. I will literally blush when someone I don't already know greets me (and I'm almost 60 dude, tall, bald and build like... someone that never had much to worry about roaming outside late at night). If you're timid, be fine with it. It's part of what make you who you are.
Last thing, don't think you need to be with people your age. I know it has become kind of the norm for younger generations but it was not for me and it is still not. As a kid, I was much more at ease with adults (I could talk with them like I was never able to speak with kids my age). That may be something else you may want to experiment with. The same when I was at uni.
If you read my rambling until here, thanks. I genuinely don’t know any more.
Thx for reading mine, then ;)
I regularly see younger people feeling lost and, more worryingly, ashamed or even afraid to dare admitting they don't know what to do about this or that. Be it about friendship or anything. Asking is a nice step in the right direction, if you're asking me.
- That is a cool story. Sadly, 14-year old me was an idiot, and being in my politically edgy phase didn't really help. Meh, live and learn. But that sounds like a very impressive friendship. I know lots of married couples that would wish for such a connection.
  
  Thx. I was an idiot too. I was just a pretentious and vocal idiot. I still probably am one today, just less vocal.
  I know lots of married couples that would wish for such a connection.
  My spouse and I have been together for almost 30 years and counting and we've gone through some real rough time that would have broken many other couples. Like with friendship, we view our couple as a privileged space where we can and should be honest, even when it hurts but at the same time as a place where we don't judge ever and when needed can forgive a lot—she has forgiven me much more than I will ever have to forgive her on that matter... She is the one that should talk about forgiving, much more than I.

It's hard work. The best way IME is to hang onto the friends from your teens and early 20s... but that only works if your life has gone in a straight line at that time. The older you get the less people try, they're married, have kids etc.
I'm good at talking to people and I'm a good friend, but don't have many. I've recently found bumble bff and I've made a friend there, previously I made some off meetup. I'm making an effort to go to knitting groups and stuff now. Previously I've tried book clubs, classes, gym groups etc... it's a lot of work.
- Most of my school friends are all over the country, and most of my uni friends are, as well. And you do grow distant if you have separate lifes. Maybe I'll need to go out of my way more to meet "strange" people, who knows.
  
  Yes, it's really hard. So many friends are only there for a season

It is hard making friends, and there is no straight answer since all of our lives are very different. That's honestly the main reason why its hard to make friends.
I would join a sports league, book clubs, etc. Something where everyone who goes, has the intention to return.
Also, in your post example it sounds like you went out once with these people. As soon as your done hanging out with people, I would shoot a message saying that you should do it again. Be the reason people come together, because no one wants that job because its tough.
- I'm doing a bunch of stuff, I don't think that is the issue. For that specific example, the group is still meeting (as far as I know), they just don't bother inviting me unless I explicitly ask a few times. At some point, even I get the hint.
  I feel like my issue is that I am incredibly "picky" when it comes to people I enjoy being around. That sucks. I don't want to be like that. But maybe I need to accept it.

I'm really good at making friends. The reality of that is, I do most if not all of the heavy lifting in the beginning. I suggest the hangout first, I push to make it happen, and I do that over and over until the other person feels like we're friends enough to start inviting me themselves. Even then, I make sure to reach out if time lags.

I'm listening to an audio book called The Like Switch. I recommend it. It's about building and maintaining relationships.

There's a few things here.
And given how they rarely invite me back, I guess the feeling is mutual
Based on your language, that's an assumption. I know it's easy to assume people are uninterested or hate you or whatever, but people also suck at initiating things and are as unsure as you are. It could just be you guys didn't vibe, and that's fine. Invite them again or wait to see if they show interest again. That'll tell you what you need to know.
I am quite cold towards people I don't know
I get that completely. I used to be this way, until I started working in a more social environment, then I developed a skill to be fake-charismatic. That might sound exhausting but it does help others feel like you don't despise their presence, and they'll warm up to you better. And as for the "full sales presentation mode", I get it. To be honest, asking questions is a great way of stimulating conversation, and it doesn't have to be just about work. A good piece of advice is to ask questions you want asked about yourself. People love answering questions, and then they'll get curious about you.
Some events seem to have a lot more of "my people", some less
So, you've found people you can click with, that's great news. Now it's just a matter of establishing and maintaining connections, inviting people places and doing things that are within both of your interests. But definitely gauge their interest. If they seem to be drifting off, don't push them. Also, while being sure to show interest in hanging out, don't be the only one showing interest. There's people who feed off of treating others like shit while wanting to receive all the attention. You don't want people like that in your life. You want a friend who invites you as well.
how could I change this?
You're not really doing anything wrong per se. You just need to believe in yourself and have the courage to keep going even if things get tough or you mess up. Because that's how you learn! Also, people have their own issues and you can't control that. Just keep going at it and with enough time, you'll have a great group of your own people.
Also, adding this at the end, but new friends can be very unsure but still want to invite you. If you ever reject an invite, you need to be the one to invite them next time. Otherwise they'll perceive that as you being uninterested in them.
- Great point at the end. Yeah, maybe I need to practice being charismatic towards people more. The weird thing is, it works perfectly with random strangers I don't give a shit about. I guess I need to accept that things don't come naturally until they do.

I've noticed some of my pals have become more insular since getting married which is a mistake IMO. When you hit your 30s it becomes harder to make friends so you need to tend to the ones you have.

Unfortunately, I don't have any good advice, but I do want to point out that making friends continues to become more difficult as you get older. From what I understand, it's important to have some sort of activity that takes you away from home and work where you can potentially meet people. When you get older and have a family, that becomes even more difficult as your spare time dries up.

I'm in the same boat I find incredibly hard to bond with anyone.
I wish I had advice.
I'm friendly with people, and people is friendly with me. But I don't bond. Specially with people which I share interest with I seem 100% unable to form a good friendship to, which is very frustrating.
Anyway, you are not alone.
- 🫂

No, pretty easy to make friends. Closing in middle age, a bunch of variety of people in different age groups.
Don't know what advice would be real or helpful to you but whenever you feel like it's not worth it, don't pursue it. Whoever you randomly encounter that you like, keep hanging close to them. Make sure you're someone who makes things happen, don't just be invited to stuff. It takes effort at first but you shouldn't feel exhausted. If that happens (over and over, not once) you're not with your people. Make sure you have boundaries and demands, not in their faces but for yourself. Invite people to things you'd wanna do and if they don't like it that's ok, if they put you down for it, fuck 'em.
Something I randomly picked up along the way is the lifeguard motto (or whatever it's called,ni don't know...) you have to save yourself before you can save anyone else, it's an analogy, ok? Make sure YOU have fun first and then you can accurately see how other people behave and feel.
- Solid advice. It took me way too long that trying to get into a specific friend group wasn't good for me. All super interesting people, doing cool stuff I want to join, but I feel like shit every time I do. Yeah, no, I don't need that.

Wanna be friends?

Do you play video games? Read books? Play tabletop roleplaying games? Knit? There are public and private discord communities for all of those things and more. Go find one and join it. I lost my two closest friends who I had known for almost 3 decades in a couple of years apart and realized that without those two I didn't really have any other friends that I hung out and spent time with, and I started really feeling lonely, and I'm practically a shut-in and don't make friends easily either. Fortunately I lucked into two things that made a world of difference: a couple of TTRPG discords that I am now decent to good friends with all of the members, and a private gaming community. Between them they have about 350 people in them, and I have made a point of hanging out with them and trying to make friends, and I've met quite a few people I get along with really well, and I always have people to play tabletop or video games with.

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