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No Stupid Questions @lemmy.world
meatwads_tooth @sh.itjust.works

What's the point in getting married?

If you truly love your partner, does a ring and a ceremony really do anything?

I know there are certain legal situations where an official marriage changes who has certain rights, but aren't those same rights available if you make other legally-official decisions E.G. a will or trusts, etc?

I'm generally curious why people get married beyond the "because I love them" when it costs so much money.

78 comments

  • I talked about this a lot with my partner since we had been living together for a couple of years before we decided to get married.

    Marriage, to us, is really just an external expression of the love that we share and the commitment we have already made to each other. The marriage itself is not the commitment, just a statement of it. There are lots of members in our families who disagree and say that marriage itself is the commitment, but then again they’re the same ones who have been divorced or who have extremely unhealthy relationships with their spouses.

    Leaning on a piece of paper with your signature on it as the reason you’re staying with someone is idiotic; paper tears extremely easily. I choose to love my partner, not because a paper tells me that I chose that long ago, but because I wake up every day and make that decision.

    Why get married? I dunno, if it doesn’t mean the same thing to you, then don’t, and I say that with no judgement at all. If you care more about the person than you do about the idea if marriage (like I do) and you gain nothing from a marriage, then don’t worry about it and just focus on the person, yourself, and the relationship you both share.

  • It took me a while to fully realise the implications of marriage. At first I thought it was about commitment and love etc. but legally you are literally taking two people and turning them into one. One, glued together, single being that can own things jointly (like a house for example).

    In the eyes of the law you become one being that can do things like have a joint bank account. It's both really handy, but also a massive risk if things go south. It has some huge implications that not everyone realises too. For example, here in the UK (might be the same elsewhere but I'm not sure) you can own a house jointly BUT if one of you becomes legally incapacitated (like having a serious stroke or something) and needs state care the state will drain YOUR assets to pay for your care costs until you only have about £15k left! (last I checked. It might be more now).

    That includes FORCING you to sell your house to pay for care costs! To avoid that you literally have to change your ownership status to something called "Tenants in Common" because then you both own 50% of the house and the state can't sell half a house so that protects you. They're aggressive about it too so if you switch to Tenants in Common straight after the incapacitating event, they can claim "deliberate deprivation" and revert you back to joint owners.

    That's just one example of the minefield you need to be aware of. The good stuff is definitely financial though. Everything is suddenly half price for example because people tend to share 50/50 in all the costs. That's really helpful! :)

  • Being married doesn't need to cost anything. You could not organizing any kind of célébration. You could stop at a dinner with the guests you can host at home. Or do a big party on a yacht with firework. It doesn't matter.

    Getting married is officializing to society that the person you love is your family. Building a link separed from love that could fade and vary with time.

    This link make also easier to share advantage that is usually reserve to one. Patrimoine, possession, inheritance, joined whatever. It give you the right to make décision in the name of your SO in hard times. If they had an accident, if they are missing or having a dire disease.

    Many people fear prénuptial contract but it is the best way to build a marriage in a way to have all the advantage without the dependance. And realising that a relationship might end and that each should be fearly treated without having to fight for it doesn't equated douting a relationship. If you don't fear séparation, you can sign anything. Right ?

  • A wedding can cost almost nothing. I found a very small local poor church and offered them $100 bucks to use the place on a Saturday. I baked a big cake, decorated it plain white. I overnight smoked a brisket, made a pan of Mac and cheese.

    Got a friend to officiate, and told our friends and families a month in advance. We told everyone it was a potluck. We got $100 plain rings. My grandmother ended up buying some cool flowers for decorations. A friend played some music on the church speakers.

    All in, it probably cost us $400 out of pocket, and we got enough cash from attendees to cover that and pay for us to take off work for the week to just hang out and move in together, staycation style. To be fair, I don't think either of us would have wanted a vacation style honeymoon, we did that kind of thing later. That first week was a lot of figuring out how to live together, so that took time.

    So it's possible to have a big party with friends and family, but spend very little. Just have everyone bring some food and it'll work out.

    Studies show that folks are less likely to have a happy long term marriage the more they spend on a wedding. It's a pretty clear correlation that expensive weddings typically make folks more unhappy and starts the relationship off with more financial stress. So, don't feel bad about being frugal! As long as you are both happy, it can be very inexpensive.

  • Marriage wasn’t important to me, either - I was with my now husband for many years before we tied the knot. I’d never been one for the traditional big wedding, wasn’t sure what difference it would make, etc.

    What changed? My Mum died - and in all the times at hospital and then dealing with the funeral etc - I realised just how important being “next of kin” actually is. In so many ways. And while you can cover most of your bases with various legal documents - honestly there’s already a super easy way, that is very well understood all over the world, that achieves this.

    And while I wasn’t expecting it to feel any different afterwards, it really did - for both of us. More certainty and just really solid.

    • Glad you mentioned 'next of kin.' This is the important answer. If you're married, you can do all that important legal stuff- make medical decisions if your partner is unconscious or indisposed, get the death certificate if that happens and give it to all the people who will need it.

      Say your partner is in a car accident and you go to the hospital. There's no marriage, no forms, no nothing to indicate you're at all related to this person. You're just some dude or lady, showing up at some dude or lady's bedside. You can't make the decisions for this person. Even if, say, they have a horrible narcissistic mother they're estranged from- that mother, just by being the mother, can get all the authority to make decisions your unconscious partner would hate!

      (Drawing from my own life. Fuck my mother.)

      You can't even call the hospital and get information on them. If they aren't awake to indicate a release of information, the hospital can't let you see them, can't tell you anything.

      This is just the first example that came to mind. The purpose of marriage is, it's a legal way to indicate that you're the most important person in the life of the person you marry. (And yes, depending on where you are and laws in your state or country or whatever, domestic partnership and other stuff can grant that, too.)

  • Aight, you seem to want to ignore the legal benefits, so I won't mention that beyond saying that it is a hell of a lot easier to get married than to figure out all the paperwork needed to duplicate it, and not even have the exact same outcomes, just the majority. The tax thing, for example, you can't file jointly if you aren't married, no matter what else you set up (edit: in places where things like common law marriage aren't recognized)

    The biggest thing is the experience, imo. The memory.

    Now, me and my wife went to the JoP, with our kid and required witnesses (my best friend and his husband).

    No fancy reception, no major party, just went home and said to my dad "we're back, no problems." He said congratulations, and went back to watching TV.

    Total spent was about a hundred bucks, including gas. And the memories of it are wonderful, we cherish it all, and we're happy as hell we didn't do anything else.

    Wedding ceremonies, however, are expensive once you go beyond that bare minimum. That's a cultural/sociological thing where the needs of the individual and the culture mesh into not only believing it necessary, but beneficial.

    And, for the people that want it, it is beneficial. Ceremonies, rites, rituals, they serve a purpose beyond the legal or official status that comes with them. Weddings are as much about community as they are the couple. It's the union being both recognized and celebrated at the same time, even when it's a secular ceremony rather than religious.

    Don't get me wrong, the money spent on empty bullshit surrounding weddings is absurd. But the actual wedding, where the community stands around the couple is incredibly powerful in terms of validation, even when it's the license that really matters legally. You can have ceremonies without the license; I performed several of them back before same sex marriage became legal. Those events were important, and doubly so because they had no legal standing.

    I think that's what you're missing, that there's a massive difference between two people shacking up and marriage. When the people involved swear an oath, and/or exchange symbols of union it means something, even if there's no witnesses, not even someone to perform a ceremony. But as you move into witnesses and an officiant, it feels different because it is a public commitment. You can still divorce or whatever, but it happened, and you can never deny that. That moment, the vows, they exist in a way they don't if you swear only to each other.

    Yeah, two people can be just as committed, and honor their commitment perfectly without anything else. But it feels different.

    Now, again, I'd argue that once you start shelling out for crazy dresses and cake and niche receptions, you hit diminishing returns very quick. That's to satisfy other things, not the union itself. It may well make people happy, but it doesn't add anything to the underlying point of there being a ceremony in the first place. That of saying to the world "where once there were two, now there are one".

    Not that anyone has to share the valuation, but it's what underlies the whole thing, and it has value

  • when it costs so much money.

    What? Why should it? We married cheap, no rings or anything, it costs next to nothing.

  • Some rights can be similar, but you'll always have to declare the other person as your legal whatever. Marriage says to the state that this person is my default for pretty much everything--power of attorney, medical stuff, property ownership, etc. So if I get in an accident and fall unconscious, my wife doesn't have to fight the hospital staff to see me.

    Depending on your country, there are other bonds that have the same legal binding as marriage.

    In addition, if we're honest, there are some "soft" benefits as well. My wife changed her name when we got married, and having the same last name (and our kids having the same last name) avoids a lot of complexity with things like traveling (especially because our daughter is a different skin color than the rest of us). Marriage didn't explicitly grant us that privilege, but there are a lot of societal norms that come with it that have proven beneficial.

    I'm not trying to claim that any of this is how it should be necessarily, but if you're asking about practical reasons why, those are some of them. If you want the practical benefits without the cost, it's (relatively) cheap to go to the courthouse or Vegas. Hell, you can get a friend to perform the ceremony for free, all you pay is for the marriage license. But if you're otherwise not interested in marriage and those benefits don't appeal (or whatever other reason), just stay dating.

  • I married my partner, after being with them for over a decade, and a few years of living together full-time. It was mostly for admin reasons (we just bought our home, and being married made things easier if one of us died). If it wasn't for that I don't think we would have bothered. We know we love each other, and had decided a few years before that if we'd get married if we ever needed to, so it wasn't like we ever 'proposed'. Just a tiny ceremony with two friends as witness, and we went out to a restaurant for lunch afterwards. I don't think it cost us anything beyond lunch? Maybe a tiny admin fee?

    But... I'm so happy we did! It's weird! I never really cared, and rationally, I still think it hasn't changed anything. But somehow it feels... really nice? I still regularly think (and tell them) "I'm so glad I married you". I'm sure there are lots of other things that you can do to symbolise your relationship or commitment. If I got a tattoo inspired by my partner I'd probably have the same feeling of looking at it and thinking of them that I do when I play with my wedding ring (2€ piece of silly junk from aliexpress. And we each bought a bunch of spares so that when we inevitably lose them it's not a problem). But actually a marriage is one of the simplest and cheaper ways (if you don't choose or feel pressured into turning it into a stupid moneysink).

    Tldr: didn't care about marriage, got married for tax, and weirdly found it deeply satisfying in a completely unexpected way.

  • It doesn't have to cost a lot to officiate a marriage if you have 2 witnesses and use the registry office.

  • You pay less taxes, its easier to get a loan (if you both have good credit), you automatically have all the rights to know about their health in an emergency situation, whereas a girlfriend/boyfriend needs to go through extra steps, some of which are impossible in an emergency. Some people also view marriage as a very religious thing and so that part of it is a big deal to them.

  • Depending on the country it can make e a significant difference in finances, because taxes, inheritance laws, credit scores, etc.

    Finances aside, yes, for some people the ceremony is a ritual that carries heavy meaning and the ring and a ceremony is a way to strengthen the relationship. Is a ritual that is culturally significant and very significant for some. Everyone is different so just because for you and me it is irrelevant that's not the case for thousands of others.

    It's like swearing an oath of sorts. You may ask yourself, why do they waste time in court making people say they won't lie and why some need to do it with a bible? People still lie after all. Or what difference does it make when people hook pinkies over a promise? It's just a promise like any other and it can be broken. But people still do these things, and they get married too.

  • Are you perhaps asking from a US perspective? Or maybe Indian too. I don't know of any other countries where marriage is expensive really.

    We got married in Vegas as a fun thing to do, since we're Swedish. Legally the difference is extremely small between being "sambo" (co-living) and being married, and we could just as well kept going without getting married.

  • As a male, none.

    Have been helping people in family court for twenty years. The shift had been catastrophic for marriage from a male risk/reward.

78 comments