United Kingdom @feddit.uk Syldon @feddit.uk 12 mo. ago

Demand to reverse Brexit hits ‘highest ever level’

leftfootforward.org Demand to reverse Brexit hits ‘highest ever level’

A poll in May also revealed that both Tory and Leave backers feel that Brexit has been a failure.

The ratio for those is favour of reversing Brexit is very close to two to one now.

75 comments

Support for rejoin can be as high as it wants to be. The bottom line is that Sir Keir has ruled it out. It's not happening. He doesn't want to lose Labour Red Wall votes.

I think people have to be realistic about these things. If they want to rejoin, vote for a party that will take us back in or at least are receptive of the idea of applying. That's not Labour yet people want to vote for them. Pick your priorities.
- All well and good but with a FPTP system you cannot vote for what you want and expect to get it. If we had PR then that would be a different story.
  
  Why Labour will never support pr.
  
  You can still strategically vote. If Labour see that e.g. the Greens are draining votes from them then they will have to make their policies more appealing to those voters to win them back. The Greens will probably never win but by voting for them you can make Labour more Green-y. It happened to the tories with ukip.
- “Sir”
  
  I am pro rejoin, but calling Keir sir in this statement is a bit too much unless you are being ironic. So you say dame priti also?
  
  Also funnily enough my phone suggested that Keith as autocorrect for keir :)
  
  Sir Keith. I like it!
Reverse Brexit

It doesn't work that way. They have to apply for membership and go through the standard process. It's not like they can snap their fingers and become a core member once again, until the next populist leader starts threatening to leave.
- No one has said otherwise.
- I’m pretty sure the EU would welcome the U.K. back - not easily, of course, lots of stuff to negotiate and I should think the EU would ask for guarantees that we would pay into the budgets for the next 25 years, no matter what happens.
  
  I’m sure they’d be happy to let us keep the pound and stay out of Schengen.
  
  But timing matters … first there’s a constitutional debate that the EU would want to settle before letting the U.K. back in and if they move to more qualified majority voting, it might be that the U.K. wouldn’t want to join after all.
  
  The whole “ever closer union” bit seems to have been ignored by Britain, even when they first joined. Did we think those words meant nothing?
  
  Pay in at standard rate no no more Thatcher rebate. But yeah can see Schengen opt out allowed and "join euro" clause written in such a way that it is "desire" or deliberately unmeatable precondition
  
  However think we could move to some Norway or swiss model
- Yeah of course we'd have to apply for membership again who said otherwise? The problem with your straw man arguement is you're the only one making it. Everyone else is off busy having a different conversation which is actually connected in some way with things that have been said.
Sorry I’m American, but wouldn’t reverse Brexit just be Brentry??
- Bre-entry, because they've already entered once.
  
  Breverse course and Bre-enter.
  
  Bre-brentry? David Brentry?
  
  Breenter
- Breturn?
  
  Bruturn
- No no, the reverse of Brexit is Tixerb.
- Nope, it would be BRilliant.
- Breunification
Can they actually reverse it? Will the EU take them back?
- Not reverse it but reapply for membership, that will of course be subject to veto!
  
  It will come with a lot of prerequisites that will make the deal the UK previously had look like they had won a golden ticket
  
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- The EU will take the UK back. It has been said by a few. The UK will still have to go through a process. It will not be quick. I would not be surprised if the EU makes the first demand for us to have a new referendum. Just so they know we are not wasting their time.
  
  Not just wasting their time - Brexit cost the EU time and effort and money as well. They're not going to bother if the UK isn't sincere.
  
  Another non-binding referendum, but this time they actually don't take action based on the vote.
Brea Culpa! This time, Britain gets to take up the Euro!
- That’s what I’ve been saying and always get people yelling at me. Ask two questions “do you want to rejoin the EU?” and “are you willing to adopt the Euro and Schengen zone?” will yield two drastically different results.
  
  As an American, I'd happily adopt the Euro and join the Schengen zone.
  
  Apparently, that's not an option for us, though ;)
- Not something that would bother me.
Don't expect Britain to return to EU in the next 50 years or so.
- Make it more like 10 to 20 years
- Hahaha, I can see you are a man of culture
  
  My body is ready? Can't see the image
Quite a lot of people are on the fence though.
- That's 37% of leave voters not of all voters.
  
  The poll, carried out by the Times, showed that 37% of Leave voters believe Brexit has a been a failure, with just 20% saying it a success and 35% sitting on the fence.
  
  Since the leave vote was 52% that is roughly half so 18% overall.
  
  I was more thinking about the line on Tory voters at the end. 38% against, 22% for, leaving 40% on the fence.
  
  Although, typing it out I just realised I did the maths wrong in my head. I thought it was 50%. Either way, it's still a large portion of people undecided.
I'm guessing a significant[1] proportion would change their mind, when they see the kind of punitive conditions[2] the EU would probably impose on rejoining.

[1] enough to change the result of the second referendum, so >10%.

[2] worse than the previous ones.
- The reason we had such a deal was because we had restrictions for not being a member of the Schengen or the Euro zone. If we rejoined the EU then joining Schengen and the Euro would be a prerequisite. This is the same for all new members of the EU. There would be no punitive conditions as the EU is based on everyone being equal.
  
  B-b-b-ut if I don't get special treatment, I'm being punished!
  
  It's ok, I'm sure Austria and The Netherlands will have UK's back and just veto their Schengen joining ad infinitum for no apparent reason. As for the Euro, the UK can just pull a Sweden or purposefully maintain a highly variable exchange rate so as not to fulfill the requirements for joining the Eurozone.
  
  Alternatively, pull a Denmark and peg it to the Euro and do some voodoo with interest rates when it's in danger of changing parity outside the agreed upon limits. (Not sure if this is what pre-Brexit UK did?)
- I think you:
  
  a) misunderstand the EU's incentives here - if a genuine supermajority in the UK came back asking to be let in, EU leaders have an incentive to make that happen easily as a signal of the total failure of Brexit and hard-line euroscepticism - the optics of the UK returning would be so good for the EU; and
  
  b) overestimate the 'punitive' measures the EU could take - worst we would get is the sort of arrangement other EU states have such as hypothetical future euro membership that neither the UK nor rest of EU would have any more desire to implement than is the case for (e.g.) Poland or Hungary; they wouldn't even need us to join Schengen because that actually would create the Irish hard border that the EU negotiations were all about avoiding (since Ireland isn't a Schengen state).
  
  Isn't Ireland not a Schengen state just because of the Common Travel Area with the UK?
- Conditions wouldn't be punitive (are you sure that's what you meant?). They would be the same as for everyone else, with some wiggle room for negotiations of course.
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