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Veganism is a choice that I respect, but after all we are omnivores, the dental folding and creases of our teeth are designed both for eating vegetables and for consumption of meat. And of the two, only vegetables actually are problematic in human digestion and can sometimes rot in the gut.
Also, interestingly, experts are now saying you SHOULD eat some bacon in your diet no matter what - it has the same Omega 3 fatty acids in its fat that fish has, and is actually good for your heart (not in massive quantities). So we've gone from banning bacon, to seeing it as a beneficial food.
For myself, I can't imagine not enjoying meat right off the bone, from a good pork chop, spare rib, or chicken wing. To me it's one of the most primal and satisfying of gustatory pleasures. But, I do see why other people choose not to consume meat, and I just hope they are staying well nourished and getting protein in some form.
I'm not a vegan but this is a bad argument. You don't need back to get omega3s. Omnivore means you CAN eat meat, not that you NEED to eat meat. That would make you a carnivore.
Nobody cares about if you like eating those things, by the way. Not sure why you bothered to tell everyone about your food preferences with such detail except to get a rise out of Vegans, jeez. It's also pretty hilarious that you brought up your "concern" for them given the text in the screenshot lol
B12 would be a much better argument tbh. That said, modern vegan diets can have enough B12 if theyre fortified. IF being the key word.
they inject animals with b12 supplements. So yo may as well take the supplement yourself
Grain fed cattle are fed a Cobalt mineral supplement because grains do not have significant amounts of Cobalt. Grass fed cattle,fish and other animals typically do obtain enough B12 or Cobalt from their diet to not require supplementation i.e free range/organic farms/ranches.
So basically, the fact that factory farms need to supplement their cattle with Cobalt is something vegans should be talking more about because it is arguably another example of cruelty that vegans wish to avoid participating in.
Doesn't really matter what it is. There's healthy people and unhealthy people and the dividing line isn't vegan/non-vegan. The post is about veganism being a target of "concern" by on-lookers when other diets have equally real health concerns
We're not carnivores just because meat is part of our diet; we're omnivores. Meaning, if you look at both the zoological anatomy of humans and their physiology, we're MADE to eat both meat AND vegetables. I'm not claiming we should only eat meat. And being dismissive of my point of view by saying "nobody cares about if you like to eat those things" is very childish indeed.
You're going to have to learn that other people have different points of view, that don't always agree with yours. And it takes maturity to see why that's an important facet of human interaction.
I feel like you didn't even read what I wrote. Humans are CAPABLE of receiving energy through meat, they do not require it. I never claimed you thought humans were carnivores. Teeth aren't what makes it possible so I'm not sure why you brought it up. If you chop up a steak really tiny and feed it to a pure herbivore, they're gonna get sick or die. So quit citing "science" when you clearly don't understand it.
I'm dismissive of your unnecessary inclusion of your personal food preferences because it's completely unnecessary to the conversation. Yet you went into vivid details about meat on a VEGAN community. If you didn't write that specifically to bother people here then it's you who needs to work on their communication skills.
Do you go to the StopDrinking community and start talking about the things you like about alcohol, too? Get off your high horse, you're not fooling anyone.
But you aren't correct. Humans DO require energy and protein from meat - we are built to consume meat and our systems are specifically designed for processing it. The reason I bring up tooth structure is because that's the primary way that zoologists and biologists identify carnivores and omnivores from herbivores - by means of their dental structures.
No human was meant to be a pure herbivore. I'm not saying they can't do it and survive - just that it's not what we were meant to be. You are dismissive of my food preferences precisely because you are unwilling to accept any other person's point of view. You keep saying I'm not reading what you're writing, but the opposite is true - you aren't, and you're not willing to even consider my points.
And the very childish idea that this forum or ANY forum is only for ONE point of view and no other is disgusting. You need to grow up, and start realizing that the world is full of people who have ideas and opinions that may not always align with your own. You're the one on the high horse - and possibly high on horse, for all I know. So stop being an asshole and start listening for a change.
Omnivores do not NEED energy from meat. Full stop. Teeth are just an indicator, not the definer.
No dude, I'm not dismissive of your food preferences. I am a meat eater as I pointed out in my first reply and it's pretty clear I was being dismissive of you describing eating meat in detail to get a rise out of people. Now I'll be truly rude: Learn to fuckin read.
Leave the last word if it will make you feel better but this is the end of my replies
Right, you can get plenty of fats from a vegan diet if you are smart about it. The tough part seems to be getting enough healthy fats and proteins. In both keto and vegan diets you can follow the diet and absolutely destroy your body if you don't also pay attention to essential fats, vitamins, etc.
Should be noted that you can actually do keto vegetarian but boy will it be hard. The more restrictive the diet, the more you need to pay attention to in terms of your nutrition.
you can get plenty of fats from a vegan diet if you are smart about it
You don't even need to be smart about it. French fries are vegan. As are Oreos, and probably a billion other things that can get you plenty of fats without trying.
People seem to have the misconception that vegans just eat raw fruits and veggies all day (as evidenced by the fact that the "vegan option" at my work Halloween party was just a Costco fruit bowl). Most of the cooked veggies I eat are tossed in olive or avocado oil, a great source of fats.
Sure, some of the vegans I know supplement D3 and B12 because plant based foods, unless fortified, are lacking in these nutrients, but guess what, those are super easy things to pick up at the grocery store vitamin aisle - a small price to pay for all of the other benefits of going vegan.
All of that said, I've never met a vegan who had any difficulty getting enough fat in their diet.
More people should be taking care of their vitamin D levels. It's a really common deficiency.
Getting enough fat is easy, but my vegan recipes are the only ones that I intentionally add extra oil to fix the macros. It's just easier to eat a reasonable amount of fat on a vegan diet compared to a constant excess in a non vegan diet.
You shouldnt be using vitamin pills for any dietary supplement. You uptake ~10-30% if youre lucky. The pill goes right through you. It needs to be in a food item with some mass, so it stays within the digestive tract.
..but you still get the 10-30%?
Yeah, it has worse uptake, just eat it with food.
Eating it with food doesnt change the uptake. It doesnt magically undissolve because there is food sitting beside it.
If youre only getting 10-30% of a supplemental nutrient, youre going to still be deficient. Youre just now spending money to be deficient, when before you got to keep the money.
..you do realize that if your body takes up too little, you just eat more, right?
I've taken blood tests. Nutrients in pill form work just fine.
Oh, cool, youve taken blood tests. Ill tell the body of research to burn their papers.
So, my doctor's are wrong, my blood tests are fake, the healthcare guidelines to take supplements of you are deficient are wrong, and 10-30% uptake actually means 0% uptake?
The scientific consensus is that supplements work just fine to treat nutrient deficiencies.
Many medicines have low uptake efficiency. It just means you need to take 3-10 times the dose you need. Like if your body needs 10mg, you might need to take a 30 to 100mg pill.
These arent meds.
@wildginger @RvTV95XBeo Right, so you can just take it after a meal and uptake should be okay...
Not really, because the pill just dissolves and flushes out with your piss all the same.
Its not in the food. If you really are dedicated to using a pill form, you need to crush it and directly add it in with meal prep.
@wildginger Have there been actual tests on this? I'm sure there have, but I haven't looked into it too much.
Yes, usually with the angle of "those bottle of vitamins youre buying are a scam"
Its why vitamin gummies became a thing. The idea being that by making it a gummie, it needs to be digested, and thus will be uptaken.
But Ive not seen any studies saying that the gummies actually pull that off. Maybe they do, Ive just not seen anything about it.
Problem is the gummies are far less diverse and specific. Most are general purpose multivitamins. So if they do work, they usually miss the specific deficiencies people would want to target cause you just cant find em.
Yeah but that's what the screenshot is talking about. People are so quick to express "concern" to vegans but not keto eaters
I think people are just addicted to meat, most people are convinced we need it in almost every meal. So they feel threatened, like threatening to take your last beer away threatened. Veganism aside, if the general population went to a much lower quantity of meat eating (like a couple times a week instead of a day) we would all be so much better off.
I stopped cooking meat at home and my consumption of it plummeted. For now, I will still eat it at restaurants or when my friends and family cook it....but I don't feel like I "need" it like I used to.
This was a big game changer for me - just learning how to cook delicious veggies/plant-based foods at home dropped my meat consumption dramatically. From there I started noticing which restaurants actually had good vegan/vegetarian options, and as my pallette shifted, so did my list of favorite restaurants.
That's how I picture it going going for me, too. Some people might say to just rip the band-aid off but I know myself too well - if I jump in fully, I'll eventually crack and feel so bad about it I'll give up the idea entirely. So I'm going slow and letting it happen naturally. I'm a few years in and I barely eat red meat but bacon and chicken are still obstacles to overcome
Nah man if you halve your current meat consumption you are doing a big benefit to society and it's much easier than going 100%. You don't really need to go 100% either, if it's about environment, eating sometimes whatever you want is completely valid, and I don't think I've met any vegan/vegetarian that criticises that.
If you want to sprinkle your beans with a bit of bacon, it's tasty as hell and not that big of a deal. If you want to eat some lentils with carrots and some slices of chorizo, it's really fine. Some days you will feel like eating fries with fake fish sticks, some days you will prefer to eat a sandwich with a slice of ham, idc. It's all really about reducing the intake and then, after doing it, having more freedom for picking higher quality products, which are more expensive but now you can allow them since you eat so much less of them.
It is clearly possible to have healthy vegan diet, you do have to plan what you eat to have necessary nutrition. If you do not do that, then there is a rather high chance of malnutrition, especially in children. This chance is much less if you are not vegan. This is why people express concern.
Sure, but why is it socially acceptable to be "concerned" about vegans in general and not meat-eaters who eat like shit? It's fake concern 99% of the time. Just people pretending to be better than others because they don't agree with the life choices that don't affect them in any way.
The #1 reason for not going vegan isn't the health concerns, it's because you were raised eating meat and can't imagine not having it. I will fully admit that's why I haven't made the change but I'm not here spouting bullshit to vegans
Why do you say it is not socially acceptable to ask this question to meat eaters? I am on keto diet for many years and regularly receive questions about it. I would just object to the classification that “I eat like shit”, but other than that everything goes.
Bad phrasing, honestly. You just don't really see other diets getting "concerned citizens" chiming in every time
What world do you live in where only vegan diets are scrutinized? Because it isnt the real world.
literally this thread we're talking in wtf dude
My replies started because of a commenter "concerned" that vegans were malnourished.
Literally this thread has multiple people correcting OP for falsely stating vegans are singled out for diet based criticism wtf dude
If you think keto diets arent criticized, you arent living in the real world. This thread is a strawman.
Nah, I don't plan shit. I just listen to my body and it tells me if I'm missing something. It's been evolving to keep me alive for billions of years, it knows what's up. I just have to know how to listen.
only vegetables are problematic
Yeah that is strictly incorrect. Adding vegetables to your diet has been empirically proven to be good for gut health.
I'm not wasting my time reading the rest of this.
Your post started off weak and got weaker and weaker until you finally succumbed to your true thoughts: "eating animals feels good."
Omega 3 in bacon is virtually non-existent. It's a 1:10 ratio omega 3 to omega 6, versus 1:1 in fish. It's the ratio that matters, not the absolute amount.
The best source of Omega acids is plant oils such as as Olive, Rapeseed, Walnut or Linenseed oil.
Avocados.
most primal and satisfying of gustatory pleasures.
nigella lawson stop pronouncing microwave wrong
experts are now saying you SHOULD eat some bacon in your diet no matter what
stfu
"Rot" is kind of a loaded term. Our gut flora are an important part of digestion and essential to human health.
Even 100% grass fed (extremely rare) livestock products really don't have high quantities of omega 3s. Seeds are one of the best sources, and if you are concerned about ALA conversion then then algae is probably the best source, that's where the fish get it from.
Everything that's not a refined food has protein pretty much. And save a few categories like grains and fruits most have a good portion of protein relative to their macros and a good distribution of aminos. It would be difficult to not get enough protein eating WFPB, but even if you do include refined foods and more grains in your diet you likely just need to eat beans and veg to balance it out. Basically don't eat an exclusively bananas and rice diet and you'll probably be fine.
So you just mansplained exactly what this meme is about? Feel better about yourself?
This dude wants to be a predator and eat meat from the bone cause it's natural!
This dude also shits inside, enjoys indoor temperature control, goes to the doctor for meds and drives an ICE vehicle... LIKE A REAL CAVEMAN!
The way I see it, eating meat is an act of desperation akin to the Soviets eating human beings during the battle of Stalingrad. There used to be agricultural reasons for it but the way we practice it now is laced with corruption and suffering.
Bacon isn't very good
K
LMAO who asked????