Maybe it has become worse since all those vegan or vegetarian fast food options became available in stores and restaurants.
When I hear non-vegs talk about living meat-free, the conversation always revolves around these meat substitutes, how unhealthy they are.
It does not come to their mind one can prepare a meal from fresh produce. Yes of course, fast food is unhealthy. On the other hand, I like it.
I've done both vegan and keto for over a year at some point during my life and what I will say is that I naturally cover my nutrition bases through preferences and desires, while vegan though I had to hunt down (forgive the pun) b12 and complete proteins combinations a little more diligently to cover my nutrition needs.
Or put differently, I think it's easier to mess up a vegan diet than a keto one.
Keto excludes high-carb foods like bread which almost never contribute to a person’s essential vitamin, mineral, and protein intake. Vegan, on the other hand, excludes plenty of foods that are common sources of essential nutrients and especially protein.
It’s obviously possible to be malnourished on any diet, but if you take a normal healthy diet and exclude keto-unfriendly items, it will almost certainly still be a healthy diet. If you did the same for vegan-unfriendly items, on the other hand, you’d almost certainly have an unhealthy diet without consciously finding suitable vegan replacements.
it's defensiveness. a person who eats 19 strips of bacon for every meal doesn't threaten the average omnivore. that person is arguing that they should do more of what they want to do anyway. the existence of a happy, healthy vegan, OTOH, threatens omnivores. it tells them that there is a choice other than meat, and what that does is force them to acknowledge that eating meat is a choice and that if you make that choice you're responsible for the consequences. if you live in a world where meat is necessary, let's call it the ferret diet because they're my favorite obligate carnivores, then you didn't really have a choice at all. as factory farming imposes cruelty on animals at the individual level and huge damage to the environment and climate on a collective level, the ferret diet allows you to say "🤷🤷 what are you gonna do?" veganism is an attempt to answer that question, and it's a valid one. there are plenty of people who don't eat any sort of animal product and are still happy and healthy. veganism threatens them because it makes the suffering they create a choice that they've made, rather than an inevitable consequence of being an obligate omnivore. bitching at vegans, trying to poke holes in vegan diets, all it is is an attempt to shed responsibility for your own life choices by pretending there never was a choice.
I'm no nutritionist, but I'm reasonably sure that any reasonable diet, whether keto or vegan can be accomplished while maintaining proper nourishment.
The thing is, most people's diet isn't even providing full nourishment. There's usually something that's missing that people are simply not aware is missing, or they're getting in such low quantities that it's unhealthy. IMO, the main problem is a lack of education on the matter. I was taught the food pyramid in grade school. It's barely relevant, and it was literally the only diet and nourishment education I recieved from my first world primary/highschool education. Unless you are going into health science or nutritionist type college credits, nobody takes the time to learn anything further about it later on. They just eat, and don't really think about it. I certainly didn't for a very long time.
Additionally, when I learned about the food pyramid, the examples didn't really make a lot of sense to me, since at the time I had barely touched any food preparation tasks, nor dealt with food that wasn't ready to eat already (usually prepared by my parents), and I had no context for what a "grain" really was, or why bread was considered a "grain" in the pyramid. I was stupid. In many ways, I still am. Yet, later in life, I don't know of anyone who is running their meal plan through a professional nutritionist before making the food. I don't know of anyone who, even if they have a meal plan, even knows a nutritionist who can consult on whether the good that they eat will provide the nutrition that they actually need.
The general population seems to put most of their trust in food makers, the corporations that make ready to eat food, to have accounted for their nutritional needs. Places like fast food restaurants, normal restaurants and those that make recipes, and most of their interest is in making food you'll enjoy, more than food that will actually provide the nutrition you need.
On top of that, even most doctors won't, by default, order tests to ensure all of your nutritional needs are met, and unless you have a symptom resulting in a significant deficiency of something, you would never know if you're behind or not getting enough of something. I can hear the comments now, "but if they're not being affected, why does it matter?" .... The thing is, they are being affected, just not significantly enough for them to be able to draw a correlation or even really complain about it.
So at the end of the day, we're probably all malnourished in some way, or at least, there's a nontrivial amount of people who are unaware that they're malnourished, which isn't being caught, and nobody has the knowledge or understanding to know it's even happening. The education on nourishment is so lackluster that is easily forgotten by most and instead we learn about factorials and trigonometry which most people never use past highschool.
I'm summary, more people than you would expect are likely unaware that they're malnourished, and the education system would rather teach you maths you'll never use than ensure you can feed yourself properly. The whole thing is fucked, and it's ironic when people lecture or question anyone about their nourishment needs, given how little any average person has been taught about proper nourishment. Everything is fucked and everybody sucks.
Meanwhile in alpha gal allergy land (allergy to mammal, the only known sugar allergy and the only known "slow onset" allergy, now the third most common food allergy in the USA thanks to Lone Star ticks and climate change), I'm happy that non-dairy cheese has come lightyears in the past decade, but wish I could easily find chicken and turkey sausage that doesn't use beef casing. Miyoko Brand cashew cheese is amazing but SO expensive.
Vegans should see alpha gal allergy folks as their allies, I think. Margaret Atwood, in her MaddAdam trilogy, imagined that alpha gal allergy was spread by ecoterrorists looking to reduce global meat consumption. While that is fiction, I sometimes think everyone should get the allergy. Basically ALL mammal consumption would cease. You'd still have sheep, alpacas, etc. for fiber production, but it would be a global food revolution unparalleled in human history, exceeding even the agricultural revolution from producing fertilizer from atmospheric nitrogen.
I have literally stopped talking to a sibling becauase they think it is funny to make jokes about my veganism, or ask if I am still vegan (for life), or if I miss the taste of meat (no, I find the smell nauseating).
It is a lack of respect for life choices, made more loathesome because my choice is made on an ethical foundation, not a whim.
Honestly, that is just one reason. They are a jerk and a bully, like everyone else who comes on here feeling the need to dismiss veganism or claim feeling attacked by it.
Just like other kinds of prejudice, these negative reactions betray a profound level of ignorance that go beyond infuriating to pitiful.
Not a vegan, but most vegans I've met seem healthy and keto is seriously bad for you, so I do not fit this meme.
no one says a word
nice strawman you've got there. people doing keto get harassed far more often about the bogus health implications of saturated fat. Shit I doubt the average person has ever even heard of anti-nutrients or thought twice about the nutritional value of plants beyond their prominent place in the antiquated food pyramid. but they know for a fact, duur fat=heart atak
I had a friend at work years back who said she was vegetarian. She was really vegan, but at the time the term wasn't as well known. She didn't do it for some moral reason, it was because she was very heavy. After a few years she had lost a couple hundred pounds, and looked so different that thry had to take a new pic for her ID badge. She was healthy, and absolutely not "malnourished".
Wow, we have a lot of vegans on here, 1.11K upvotes?
Please don't post images of text. Blind folks can't read it
So how many supplements are you taking? 😆
I've never understood full veganism. Is it not morally okay to consume animal products (such as milk or eggs) from actual free roaming and happy animals? And not the BS marketed "free range" products in the US.
Say I have 10 acres and keep a dozen or so chickens to roam around and eat all the ticks on my property, is it morally wrong to eat their eggs?
The only kid I've ever seen who looked like they were going to die like sickly pale I later found out was vegan, parents were anti vaxxers, believed essential oils can cure cancer, etc.
I've never seen anyone without an eating disorder who is an omnivore look deathly sick like that.
Unless you're eating a ton of nuts and beans I fail to see how you get enough protein for 2gm of protein per lb of body weight. The math simply doesn't add up.
Also I dont believe chickens cows or pigs have agency so morality isn't relevant to me. I do want them killed as quickly as possible, though.
I try to buy local meat whenever possible (1/4 cow etc)
Veganism is a choice that I respect, but after all we are omnivores, the dental folding and creases of our teeth are designed both for eating vegetables and for consumption of meat. And of the two, only vegetables actually are problematic in human digestion and can sometimes rot in the gut.
Also, interestingly, experts are now saying you SHOULD eat some bacon in your diet no matter what - it has the same Omega 3 fatty acids in its fat that fish has, and is actually good for your heart (not in massive quantities). So we've gone from banning bacon, to seeing it as a beneficial food.
For myself, I can't imagine not enjoying meat right off the bone, from a good pork chop, spare rib, or chicken wing. To me it's one of the most primal and satisfying of gustatory pleasures. But, I do see why other people choose not to consume meat, and I just hope they are staying well nourished and getting protein in some form.
