Disapproval of Elon Musk is top reason Tesla owners are selling, survey says
Disapproval of Elon Musk is top reason Tesla owners are selling, survey says
The disapproval of Elon Musk is the top reason Tesla Model 3 owners are selling their electric vehicles and going...
The disapproval of Elon Musk is the top reason Tesla Model 3 owners are selling their electric vehicles and going for another brand, according to a new survey of 5,000 Model 3 owners.
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Tesla spent years building a brand identity that is intimately woven together with Musk. It’s damaged goods now as far as I’m concerned. Every time I encounter one of its products I think about it. It wasn’t too long ago when I was eagerly following product updates in the hopes of eventually buying a car power wall or that solar roof system. I was enthusiastic about rationalizing away the poor build quality and terrible customer support. Now, I would never buy a thing from them and I’m happy to pass judgement on anyone who does. $tslaq
Even beyond Musk the quality of Tesla’s for the price is absolute shit. His presence just makes it even worse. The main selling point for them was the higher range but seems like that may have been a lie the whole time.
That's the reality
Musk is a dipshit. But the brand was always doomed once other car manufacturers finally started pushing mainline EVs. Because why would you want an overpriced car with no steering wheel that leaks in the rain when you could just drive an electric Ford Focus?
Where can I buy an electric Ford Focus?
On the used market? It was discontinued in 2018. A quick Google search found several for sale.
Ford currently has Explorer and Mustang as full EVs, but also the Puma among others from sometime next year.
Ugh I'm so annoyed by the SUVification of vehicles
I am a wagon fan. I had long wondered why Europe had all these nice wagons and here in the US we had countless crappy SUV models and very few (if any) wagons. Back in the 70's and 80's emissions were the reason manufacturers moved from car-based larger capacity vehicles to truck-based. They simply did not have to meet nearly the same emissions requirements. Sucks for you consumer (and environment)!
Same.
But it is also worth noting that "crossover SUVs" are generally just another word for "hatchback". I like Subaru and I forget if the Crosstrek is slightly larger, but it is essentially the hatchback imprezza on a lift kit (which is mostly a normal height since the impreza is a low rider for some unfathomable reason).
That was a compliance car and it's not even remotely competitive with a modern EV, so no thanks.
Interesting you chose Ford as an example. You realize Henry Ford was way worse than Musk? https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/henryford-antisemitism/
Not hard to be worse than musk when you lived from 1863-1947 lol.
Yeah, being anti-semitic and racist is kinda the default for white folks back then, source half my ancestry is rich white folks the other half is poor white folks.
I have it on good authority that he's not involved in the day to day running of the corporation.
Then he’s not CEO
He's been dead for 76 years.
Hello and welcome to the 21st century.
Seeing the new mustang I definitely believe Henry Ford is still at the helm of this ship directing Ford from the depths of hell.
You mean Edsel.
Henry Ford died almost 30 years before Elon Musk was even born.
Yeah? He’s been dead for decades. Who cares?
It sounds like you hate the idea of self driving cars... Weird
No. I actually love Adaptive Cruise Control and use it every day in my subaru. To the point that I am genuinely a bit worried about renting a car and doing a lot of highway driving in a few weeks because I am rather rusty at fully maintaining my own speed and distance.
As for branding: I believe you are supposed to end every single nonsense non sequitor with "Interesting". At least, that is what The Emerald Apartheid was doing last I checked. Or a poop emoticon.
When I rent cars I usually reserve a Toyota Corolla, they are usually the cheapest or second cheapest rental category and they come with adaptive cruise with 3 choices of follow distance and I've been really impressed with it, as Subaru driver.
I hate the idea of "self-driving" cars Elon-style with no LIDAR.
that may have been a lie the whole time.
Musk's taint on the brand is I think majorly based on this type of thing. His twitter purchase has revealed that he's a serial liar, and now people are seeing all of the ways that it is happening with Tesla. People tolerate assholes all of the time. What they don't want to tolerate is snake oil salesmen, and I'm not sure there has ever been a bigger one than Musk.
Fun fact: teslas are the most recalled car brand in the country.
I don’t discredit the work done by the engineers there, I’d argue they laid the groundwork to usher in the future of electric cars in this country. But of course all the credit goes to musk. Just another situation like Steve Jobs. See Bill Burrs bit on Jobs and replace him with Musk, same exact story.
How many of those are real serious recalls that they didn’t just fix with easy tweaks over the air? I hate Musk as much of the next guy but I follow a lot of EV YT channels and even the ones that don’t like Tesla acknowledge that the media overhyped the recalls given how many of them have been easy OTA fixes. Plus since they iterate very fast and don’t just update the car once every four years often it only affects a small subset. Like 1-4k cars in some cases rather than the typical 100k recall that Toyota would have.
As referenced.
If only he had cancer curing nanobots in his fruit salads.
You can't fight P.C. with apples.
Curious what quality issues you mean?
Here ya go: https://insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reliability-poor-2021/
Start here and I’m sure you’ll be able to guide yourself in this journey from there.
Tesla is the most recalled vehicle brand. That’s impressive. Looking at you Kia/hyundai and Nissan.
Musk himself admits Tesla has build quality issues
Search “Tesla panel gap issues”. Tons of people complaining and many say that trying to fix the issue causes other, bigger gaps, or just gets worse. I’ve heard rumor that if you try to fix them, you’ll void some kind of Tesla support.
Oh, and one of the most damning ones in my book. During a car fire, which Tesla has had PLENTY of, some genius decided that the door locks should default to LOCKED. Who the actual fuck thought this was acceptable? How did they ever make it into production.
There’s a video floating around of a guy kicking his windows out to escape his burning Tesla.
Dumb dumb musk decided he was smarter than everyone else, (spoiler he’s not) and overrode his own engineers. He decided there were no physical sensors required for auto driving, only cameras. Every other manufacturer knows that not possible yet, but musk knew better
Yes, a lot of car fires are difficult to extinguish, and yes, electric/hybrids more so, but teslas are exceptional. Can’t out out the many teslas that catch fire When the local fire dept came by to inspect our business we got to chatting and they said that they had a Tesla catch fire. They used everything in their arsenal, and a LOT of water. Like more than you could imagine. Then it got towed to a holding yard. Someone parked it up against a building, and next to quite a few other vehicles waiting for legal things/inspections. Tesla reignited in the tow yard and took out everything near it too. The yard is in BIG trouble for damaging a whole lot of evidence/vehicles being held for court cases, etc.
I could go on, but those are the biggest ones.
They've also found out the hard way that automotive grade parts exist for a reason.
https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows-why-automotive-grade-matters
Oh, yeah, I forgot about that.
There are also the people who got locked out of their cars because the battery died. Or even better the one that locked INSIDE their tesla when the 12v battery died. Getting locked inside a car, in AZ heat is deadly, VERY rapidly.
That's like the door failing to locked when the car is on fire, or in an accident. Who the fuck let that pass QC?
During a car fire, which Tesla has had PLENTY of, some genius decided that the door locks should default to LOCKED.
Leave no whiteness is Tesla motto
No it hasn't. Please point us to a source that shows Tesla having more fires than other EV brands, let alone ICE cars.
The claim isn't that they have more fires than other EV or ICE cars. The claim is that if they do have a fire they will trap you and your family in it.
Burning lithium and other exotic metals are class D fires. They are extraordinarily difficult to extinguish. They burn hot enough to break down water into oxygen and hydrogen. Mainly you let them burn themselves out and try to prevent them from spreading to other more traditionally combustible materials.
When I learnt this was the point where I decided that I didn't want a wall of Tesla fire bomb in my house...
I was trying to keep it short. I get why, I just was trying to avoid an essay.
They kinda remind me of the old VW bug magnesium fires.
I’m not a Musk fan at all but some of these are misleading or just downright wrong.
Tesla is only the most recalled brand if you categorize “recalls” to include software updates. If Tesla can fix an issue via an OTA update, it shouldn’t be considered a recall but it is in the source being used.
Teslas do have build issues but they’re not overwhelmingly more present than other cars. They’re only showing that way because Tesla only has 4 models of car and the build issues carry over from year to year. That’s not the case for other cars where, like with a Jetta, the body is redesigned but the name stays the same.
The door lock thing is also misleading because the case would be the same for any other car where the driver locked the doors. Either way, the fire department is breaking a window. They don’t have magic keys to open every car door out there. The fire department could pull on the handle all day long and it wouldn’t matter. The driver locked the doors and could have opened them but didn’t (and there’s even a special manual override for them along with a Fire Department quick access switch at the front of the car).
Edit: People are downvoting objectively true information.
https://www.autoblog.com/2022/12/29/most-recalls-by-car-manufacturer-2022/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/smartselect_20191224-132903_adobe-acrobat-jpg.492495/
You missed the part where the driver was conscious and couldn't escape from the inside due to locked doors.
I didn’t miss crap. The cars have a mechanical release on the inside. If the driver was conscious, he could pull the switch which doesn’t need power and would unlock the doors. The OP’s comment and link were referencing the outside of the doors since the Model S has retractable handles that are flush with the door when they’re locked so there’s no handle to grab.
The only exception is the Model X since it has the full-wing doors. Those have a release that is only accessible if you pull off the speaker grill so you’d need to know about that ahead of time.
First and foremost, when you have a vehicle with an electric door lock, you ALWAYS fail it to open. On a "normal" car (yeah there are some that are all electric now too), you have a physical switch that you flip, and it's unlocked. The locking mechanism for the Tesla is electric, so in the case of the wires being damaged, or as witnessed, the car being on fire, you have no MECHANICAL mechanism to open the door. Supposedly, there is one INSIDE the door, lol what? but how many people will know that, and more importantly be able to access it in a panic?
I did a little more digging. SOME models are equipped with a mechanical release on the door (I assume it's something you have to pay extra for), but not all of them. As I mentioned above, there is a mechanical option, but you would have to know exactly to remove the door card trim panel, and access the cable. People don't even read enough of the owners manual to know how shit they really want works, let alone a safety issues.
Clearly you don't understand what a recall is. Recalls are highly regulated, and things like a software update for the aircon do not fall under the recall term. In fact, manufacturers do everything in their power to avoid recalls. They will often issue a TSB, instead, when a recall isn't being forced by the NHTSA. Good try though. As you can see from teslas own website (I don't believe this is even close to all of them) they are ALL safety issues, which is what recalls are for, either voluntary, or forced by NHTSA.
No, they absolutely have more build quality issues than even the lowest trim shit econoboxes. I always say that a tesla is a corolla with a big computer in it, but even the corolla is built WAY better, and I'm old enough to remember 80s cars. Those were pretty damn bad.
Hey... I loved my 80s Corolla. I drove it until it was practically dust. And it was a manual. You can barely even find manuals these days.
Miata is always the answer.
I’m not knocking corollas exactly. But they are what they are. They are cheap point a to point b appliances.
I’d say 80s cars had a lot more character anyhow. They were in a lot of ways more enjoyable.
First and foremost, how does a normal, non-Tesla car fail to an unlocked door? If the car caught fire and was locked, how does the car unlock the doors in your scenario? Teslas have a mechanical switch that’s no different from the situation you’ve described since the driver was passed out. The door needed to be opened from the outside so it’s literally no different for the Tesla.
Also, your digging was wrong. The Model 3, for example has a mechanical release right on the door that doesn’t need any digging or removal of anything. (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/smartselect_20191224-132903_adobe-acrobat-jpg.492495/)
Clearly you don't understand what a recall is
I know exactly what a recall is and you’re wrong again. In 2022 alone, Tesla came in 7th amongst auto manufacturers for recalls but 2nd in total cars affected because over-the-air fixes are still considered recalls. (https://www.autoblog.com/2022/12/29/most-recalls-by-car-manufacturer-2022/) Regardless of that, under no interpretation of it does Tesla have the most recalls of any car manufacturer, unless you include the OTA update recalls.
So it sounds like you don’t understand what a recall is.
Everything else you’ve said is subjective garbage. Unless you have some evidence to back up your claims, you’re just spreading more of the lies that are exactly what I’m complaining about. Tesla and Musk have enough real problems that you don’t need to make up their problems.
This, I read the article and it lays it out, even though it's misleading in it's title and conclusion.
Agreed. Not having the manual release for the back seats is dumb though.
dumb
That very much understates it. It is the kind of "would be criminal if human rights mattered in this country" stupidity that has been solved for decades. Because it is the kind of thing that makes abductions a lot easier AND can lead to unnecessary deaths in a collision on the off chance the... lithium batteries ignite.
False
Oh ok.
Probably stuff like this:
https://www.carscoops.com/2023/04/tesla-model-s-plaid-buyer-rants-about-poor-build-quality/
A lot of cheap surface level stuff. For example, my dad has a model 3, and the back of the passenger chair just falls off. And by the back I mean the hard plastic shell that holds the seat pocket for the passengers in the second row to use.
There have also been reports of things like mismatched tail lights, cars leaking when it rains, and bumpers just falling off. But I haven’t seen those in person.
Stuff like that.
Don’t forget when they had the issue with the glass roof flying off on the highway.
In addition, almost all big car manufacturers now have far better EVs in terms of quality, features, and looks. Tesla no longer has the monopoly they enjoyed for almost a decade. If you’re selling me an EV with this shit stain on it, I’d just go the shop next door.
Let his fascist followers buy his EVs….oh wait, they hate them. Remember all the rage against EVs in Texas that led to “rolling coal” in Teslas, purposely parking F250s to take up all the Tesla charging stations, vandalism at charging stations, keying Teslas parked at malls? Yeah, those are the people he is fighting for.
I wanted a Tesla for years. I even had stock which helped me buy my house.
I no longer want a Tesla and it 100% has to do with musk. And I decided that before I realized I'm trans.
On the other hand, maybe we should start a foundation to buy Teslas for trans people. Can you imagine how pissed Musk would get if it suddenly became cool to be trans in a Tesla?
I wanted a Tesla. I was ready to get a model 3. Then he went full blown ass clown and at first I thought it was a joke, like he was just messing around being funny. Then I realized how big of a dbag he really is and yeah, no thanks. I bought a CTS-V instead and although it's the opposite of fuel efficient, it's the most fun vehicle I've ever driven.
When we got on the wait-list for Starlink I thought he was a cool innovator type.
Luckily we've had the Starlink for a couple years now and I typically forget that his embarrassing ass has anything to do with it!
Glad we got it back then, I'd probably write it off now and not trust it/him enough to spend the money (it was a decent investment for equipment).
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Lol so are the CEOs of all the other manufacturers people to look up to and admire? Would you buy a Volkswagen or did you own one when Martin Winterkorn was running it?
Elon is a man child, I don’t look to him for any insights or knowledge, would I buy a Tesla? Ya if the car itself is good, if it’s not good then I wouldn’t buy it. It wouldn’t have anything to do with Musk however
Who do you bank with? Do you hold those CEOs to the same standards and not use their products?
Good luck buying anything where there isn’t some ethical issues surrounding the people who are the the top of those corporations
Most other ceos shut their mouth and let the product speak. Tesla/Elon’s mo has been to have the product in the background with him at the forefront, that worked well until it didn’t
But what if he is too big to fail? I mean how long have we been talking about musk? And it doesn’t look like anything is changing
Not sure where we disagree here? You are right the jackass just can’t keep his mouth shut I don’t care what his beliefs are though, I don’t go to corporations for my ethics, I go to them because I want to buy a product
Well put you made a great point
Most other ceos shut their mouth and let the product speak
I prefer my evil rulers behind the curtain, thank you very much!
*this is in no way a defence of Musk it's a pointing out how ridiculous it is to see a problem with him but not care about the other obscenely wealthy capitalists who not only exploit labour and hoard resources, but also basically own government via either corruption (aka "lobbying") or direct representation (ie all the rich fucks in government making rules for themsleves and their friends), just like Musk, simply because they're "polite" enough to do it behind closed doors.
That's not to say don't buy the things you need, it's to say don't be deluded in to thinking that it matters. As long as capitalism exists, governance by and for the rich isn't going anywhere, and your money will always be going to one of maybe a couple dozen people.
A big lesson from Trump and others like him is that when someone's a piece of shit and brags about it in public, it looks innocuous and at best it may be revealing and may validate your views on power and the flaws of society, but on another level he's likely to give voice to, rally and convince other assholes to feel entitled and protected to act like assholes and then you have an actual problem. So yes, polite amorality is better.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism
When someone tells you all companies are evil, that's fine. When someone tells you all companies are equally evil, they're showing themselves to be morally incompetent.
(Same goes for politicians: If someone tells you all politicians are corrupt, that's fine; if they tell you all politicians are equally corrupt, you can bet that person votes for fascists.)
Tesla spent years building a brand identity that is intimately woven together with Musk.
It worked well for a long time but it makes sense if people lose faith in Musk they lose faith in Tesla. Because he is synonymous with the brand.
Lol so are the CEOs of all the other manufacturers people to look up to and admire?
They haven't built their brands around the reputation of their ceo.
Would I buy a Tesla? Ya if the car itself is good.
How can you evaluate if a car is good? It has recently been revealed that Tesla/Musk was exaggerating their range so severely that Tesla owners thought their cars were defective. Tesla has been trading on a reputation of 'goodness' that it didn't deserve.
Tesla is seeing repercussions from risks they took tying their brand so tightly with Musk.
If anyone bought a Tesla because of Musk they were idiots, so same logic applies the other way
You could argue Apple built its brand around Jobs (who died because of his moronic beliefs about natural cures) and now Cook… pretty sure Apple kowtows to Chinese censorship and also does shitty things (I’m typing this on an iPhone right now) so I’m no fan of Jobs or Cook I just don’t give a fuck about them, I bought it because it’s the best phone for me
The range issues are pretty funny, people thinking they were defective is comical, I will however point out that is nothing new all auto manufacturers have done this for the decades with fuel economy numbers, I can’t tell you how many people we would have come through the dealership complaining about fuel economy after buying a new car
As far as evaluating if a car is good or not of course you can do that, do research on reliability issues, check recalls, ask friends and family who have actually owned them if they are any good, if you have a mechanic that you know ask them
I object to giving my hard earned money to evil people. I recommend the same.
Nothing wrong with that but.. again do you do that across the board all the time because if you do congrats it’s not an easy thing to accomplish
And I’m not dumb I know it doesn’t have to be an all or nothing, doing it when you can is great I just can’t stand people who pontificate about shitheads like Musk but buy all their shit from Amazon
Easier said than done, unless one doesn't have money to begin with
In that case you must then remove yourself from society, since not only does at least 90% of the money you spend end up in the pockets of evil people, but evil people are also keeping much if not most of your hard earned money for themselves before you ever know it existed by paying you less than your labour is worth (what you earned them).
This is a feature, not a bug.
You have a choice. I choose to vote with my wallet.
Biggest issue is social. Buying a Tesla associates you positively with musk (by design), and from my experience most Tesla owners are incredibly annoying about it. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to avoid the stigma. Same reason people buy Harleys - the brand name and cultural associations on a vehicle matter a lot, sometimes even more than the car itself.
I can see what you are saying but that’s not a universal thing, like when it comes to Tesla I never associated that with Musk he’s just the shithead that owns it, to me it’s more about the most widely available semi affordable electric car you could buy since the legacy manufacturers dragged their asses wasting time with hydrogen and hybrids
I guess the difference I have here with people is exactly that, I don’t attach him as being Tesla
That was a good way of putting it describing it like a Harley, makes sense. I ride motorbikes and I dgaf about what brand I own, I’d ride anything including a Harley
Ah the ole "you're a hypocrite because your life contains contradictions"... Elon musk shoved his way into my life but according to you my buying decisions are wrong if I don't actively ignore that douche
It’s less about hypocrisy and more about what’s wrong with just buying something and not having it also have to be an existential moral crisis, don’t buy a Tesla because you think Musk is a genius but if you already own one and are gonna sell it because of Musk then that’s also ridiculous, if you are looking for an electric car and strictly won’t buy it even if it’s the best option based on the money then that just seems over the top to me is all
I have a bank account yet I’m no fan of banks, I’m typing on an iPhone, apple does shitty things, I buy shit from Amazon when I have to… I despise billionaires
it's really easy just to let people not spend their money where they don't want to.
You can't have a rational discussion about Tesla on lemmy. So many people are so sick of hearing about Musk that only those who REALLY hate him will click on an article about him. Those people can not separate the product from the vocal dirtbag that is its CEO.
It's not worth even trying here.
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The most upvoted comments certainly are not.
Because you disagree with them?
No, because they are clearly wrong.
Yes, people will throw reality in your face. Horrible.
Musk is a horrible person, so anyone who likes a Tesla is wrong for liking the car.
Totally rational.
This, coming from a user base on Lemmy who is supposed to be the opposite of facist conservatives.
I don't care about downvotes for giving my opinion, but so many people in this thread are intrenched in their beliefs as any MAGA fool.
Yes, people don't like supporting a horrible person. How irrational.
The fascist conservative mindset is to support horrible people, so yes, lemmy is against that.
It's ok, I hear Truth Social is a safe haven for your belief system.
I personally think Musk is a massive pile of garbage but that wouldn’t make me not buy a Tesla, I’ll buy it if it’s a decent car, if I had the money right now it would be between a Tesla and an Ionic
People trying to tie their purchases to the ethics of the people who run the companies are divorced from reality imo