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Privacy @lemmy.ml
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Noob Question: If you aren't willing to deal with custom OSes like Linux (for computers) and Android Custom Roms (for phones), do you just not have any privacy at all?

I mean, exactly how invasive are default operating systems? (Like Windows, Mac, Chrome OS, Android, iOS) Do they log your keystrokes, log passwords, capture screen, upload your photos, videos, or audio? (Assuming you aren't a target of government) Is it even possible for the average person who doesn't feel comfortable messing with installing operating systems to have any privacy?

63 comments

  • Default OSs are very invasive. Windows, Mac and iOS are constantly spying on everything you do and stock Android is only as private as the apps it comes with which include things like Google Play Services - an app so baked into the system it can only be disabled through adb/root

    If you want to read into this - Louis Rossmann made a video on this and this is the paper he mentioned.

    possible for the average person who doesn't feel comfortable messing with installing operating systems to have any privacy?

    Yes, depends on how far you are willing to take it.

    Replace default apps with FOSS (F-droid)

    Delete or disable defaut apps through developer options/adb

    Limit the number of permissions you give to apps (your calculator shouldn't have access to internet or your camera)

    Don't install apps that you don't trust/need

    Block app's access to the internet with a firewall

    Check out r/degoogle on Reddit for many useful resources

    For Windows/iOS, etc.: change settings to be more private: give less permissions and turn off telemetry wherever possible.

    If you think that's not enough, consider dual booting a Linux distro like Linux Mint Cinnamon (easy to set up and very beginer-friendly). If you do that you can learn Linux and keep your private data there instead of on Windows/iOS

  • Privacy is not a black & white thing. Every step you take matters. And being entirely private without digital footprint is impossible unless you isolate yourself from the internet entirely.

    To answer your question. Yes, they spy on you. To what degree depends on the OS and your settings. But they always cost you some privacy.

    But it's never useless to take other steps just because you don't want to or can't switch OS. Because you'll still give them less data if you do. They might still have info on you. But the less, the better.

    Taking easier steps like switching mail provider and other services you use to privacy-minded ones are a good and easy start anyone can do. Replacing apps/programs on your system with FOSS or privacy-minded ones is another good one.

    Even the biggest noob can make a Proton account and use it instead of Gmail/Outlook. Use 1Password instead of your device/browser's password manager. Use LibreOffice instead of MS Office. Check F-droid for apps before Google Play (and perhaps even use Aurora when you do need it). Use FireFox instead of Edge or Chrome. Install a FOSS keyboard on your phone. Get rid of Social Media. Use Signal instead of WhatsApp. Those are just some example of easy my-grandpa-can-do-this level of difficulty options that already greatly improve your privacy (in fact, after I installed it for him, my grandpa does many of these!). Is it as private as an extremely hardened custom device by a security expert? Nah, but it's definitly much beter than a default device full of big-tech apps. Even if you just do 1 of them!

    Since every step counts, I think we should apploud people for caring and starting to take steps instead of deminish them for not going in to the max. Changes like this are slow, especially with a big mass of people. The more people show they care, the more privacy-minded alternatives grow and show up and the more normal it becomes to care about privacy.

  • This is a highly loaded question.

    You are making a number of very poor assumptions based on a number of ridiculous misconceptions.

    The average, everyday, human adult is fully capable of understanding their own personal "threat landscape". How they deal with that will vary.

    For most; if not all, average consumers; their concerns are still very limited. They're not so much concerned with the provenance, the history, of companies...they just want to duck for the oncoming threats in their landscape. These metaphorical tree branches are what they're ducking under. They have no logical need to fear the entire tree.

    Personally, I choose not to live like Stallman, nor do I have fears of big state repercussions like Snowden does. Neither does your average consumer. Functionality is the top priority. Functionality on-par with the CSSC (Closed-Source Software, Corporate) competitor is critical. If the FLOSS (Free/Libre Open Source Software) version can do exactly what people typically want and expect it to do AND cost less monetarily AND can impact their privacy way less than using the CSSC competitor would, then it will be adopted by many and loved by all who use it.

    This isn't to say that privacy does not matter.

    It simply means that privacy is a spectrum; and everyone has varying privacy wants and needs. For some reason, a large potion of the "tech-savvy" people in the FLOSS community feel the need to measure their superiority in "How private their systems are." The average user does not give a damn about that dick measuring contest; and really would rather not be bothered. They just want the amount of privacy that is right for them, and their specific situation.

    It is best to put your ego aside when discussing privacy, or helping someone else to discover and improve their own privacy.

63 comments