Memes @lemmy.ml zaros @zaros.club 1 yr. ago

Little me just wanted to learn

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Isn't it just a competition to see who can talk the fastest? I watched a video of it once and it seemed so dumb. It's like the entire thing is just finding loopholes
- Pretty much.
  
  What I find most problematic is that this culture teaches younglings that there's no such thing as truth. It's just rhetorical trickery and gotchas.
  
  That's because that's how politics works. If you can get enough people to believe that what you say is true and act on that belief, it doesn't really matter whether it's actually true or not.
  
  Rhetorical tricks and gotchas aren’t necessarily in opposition to the truth. You have to be able to communicate effectively to get the truth across, so knowledge of rhetoric is important for countering compelling bullshit.
- I remember them being a lot more interesting to watch, and you got a real feel for the candidate's positions (at least their public persona). But for the last ~8 years, it's been just gish galloping.
  
  E.g., Obama vs. Romney was honestly pretty interesting to watch.
  
  In my mind, that was the last real debate. They addressed their opponents comments and added their own. It wasn't an endless stream of buzz words.
- There was actually a college debate team who argued about this. There was essentially no rules saying you had to follow the stated topic so they argued about racial prejudices in debate clubs and how it’s really a competition to see who talks the fastest. They ended up winning nationals if I recall correctly
Is this about political campaign debates or like high school debate club competitions?
- Yes
Oh. Yeah. If you ever start to wonder if you might enjoy any part of our political process, you will not.
I did debate club in highschool and early college, but it was parliamentary style debate. I didn't observe that much bullshit, so I'm guessing the US debate style is different
- Nah that's how debate club is everywhere. Middle, high school, and college.
  
  The debates you see on TV are designed for whatever channel it's on though.
  
  Local councils are basically what you see on Parks and Rec. It's where the OG crazies shine since they've mostly been banned from the internet lol.
  
  What I meant was that during my debating years here in Canada, I didn't see that much "stage performances" or "rhetorical tricks."
  
  I did 4 years of Canadian National Debate Format and 3 years of British Parliamentary debate, and is was overall a very pleasant experience.
Intelligence Squared has good debates. They have a podcast and a youtube channel I think. There's only been one instance I can remember where one side of the debate was arguing in bad faith, and I've been listening for a while so I assume it's pretty rare.
Rhetoric without substantive argument is just pandering. I'll take both over either, please!
For an example -NSFW strong language-, here's an AI imitating/mocking the US presidential debate

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