So they want the war to end, but they've lost so much prosecuting the war that they don't want to lose what they've acquired? A nation willing to keep getting people killed over a sunk-cost fallacy.
Playing devil's advocate, wouldn't most civilians from any country have a similar opinion on "keep fighting, or end the war, but lose all your gains so your comrades and children died for nothing?"
It's easy to say "sunk cost fallacy" but that last bit is very, very tough to get over. Ask any US veteran how they feel about their time in the ME now.
The pool may also be further polluted since saying "yes end the war even if we lose all gains" may be considered an unpatriotic opinion that gets you targeted by Russian police. These are people that can and do jail men, women, and children for such behavior.
It’s easy to say “sunk cost fallacy” but that last bit is very, very tough to get over. Ask any US veteran how they feel about their time in the ME now.
Most of them I know are extremely bitter about being sent over there to begin with, including the very patriotic ones. Very few have an opinion along the lines of "We should have stayed until the job is done". Most express some variant of "We should have gotten out sooner, but also the fact that we left our translators behind to be executed by the Taliban haunts my dreams"
The pool may also be further polluted since saying “yes end the war even if we lose all gains” may be considered an unpatriotic opinion that gets you targeted by Russian police. These are people that can and do jail men, women, and children for such behavior.
That much is true.
It’s also really hard to convince the other country’s citizens to “give up and go home” when their homes are under enemy control or demolished and their family members, friends, and neighbors have been killed or maimed.
It’s easy to say you’re ready to stop when your team is ahead. Not so much if you make them give up the conquered territory, and even less likely if they have to pay to rebuild the damage they caused.
The only ways this ends are Ukrainian allies supporting them enough to make Russians hurt enough to demand changes in leadership… or, you know, Russia wins and the rest of the world writes off the next decade of atrocities Russia commits against the conquered people of Ukraine…. And then the story repeats in other Eastern European countries…
And they’re going to have to accept the fact that yes, actually, they did die for nothing. No one asked them to do this, they killed how many Ukranians who were minding their own business and now we have to be careful about their feelings? I don’t want innocent but scared Russians to be punished either but I’m not going to put their feelings over the safety of Ukrainians.
I doubt the Ukranians would be happy to lose even more of their land. Crimea showed that Russia will just wait another few years and try the same shit again, banking on Ukrainians just wanting peace.
It might not be such a hard pill to swallow if they'd just, I dunno, draw and quarter the guy who got them into this mess.
No, civilians on most countries do not give you that answer. People saying that is a very clear indication they've been submitted to imperialistic propaganda.
But yes, anything you hear about Russia, it's important you keep in mind that the people saying it could have been executed if they said something different.
Fuck no, when we went to Vietnam and Iraq I did not give two shits about gaining anything from pointless and illegal wars. I think you will find most people who opposed those wars had exactly the same opinions.
With these cases, and with Russia, I think it is actually very important that the people come to understand that the blood and gold was spent for nothing. Otherwise there is no lesson learned.
Propaganda is a hell of a drug.
A non-stop barrage of right-wing propaganda blaring from every television, in a country with a mindset stuck in a medieval rasputitsa.
All they need to do is claim that they've been there for 2000 years and they're set.
Don't worry, they've already pulled the history card. The former president of Mongolia even commented on it
Yeah, because just letting Russia have what it wanted worked out really well the first two times. I'm sure that of Ukraine just rolls over That the Russians won't be back in two or so years.
And I am sure China won't see this as a precedent to invade Taiwan. You just gotta deal with a few sanctions and you are all good. That's probably worth it, if you can take over TSMC.
keep the war going long enough you don’t need to go home, your children will join you
Ah, the old US Afghanistan Strategy.
"I support ending the war as long as we win." You don't say??
Nationalism. If they just give up what they got then this whole thing was just a humiliating waste of life and money for Russia.
that's why russia must be destroyed
Ceterum censeo russiam esse delendam.
I wonder how the numbers would look like when the people asked were told that they are the next ones to be send to the front.
Sunk cost fallacy.
All things considered, 30% is pretty high.
Surprised than tankies did not downwote it much.
Day shift in Moscow just ended.
Some how… I get the feeling they were answering the poll under orders.
Assuming 70% russians are imperialists includes grandmothers who haven't conquered nothing more than a kitchen in Murmansk in their whole life.
Historically speaking, those are some of the most ardent imperialists, because they risk nothing in advocating for it.
Word. There're endless memes about the least respected and put through mud women who happen to be the most avid voters for Vova. Stockholm syndrome is named after the wrong city.
Oh, they want to win? Why didn't they just say so?
The only moral imperialism is my imperialism
I'm more troubled by the thought it's irrational even if you are comically evil, like some Mister Rouble or General Bloodthirst. And even if peace could've happened tomorrow on any terms, there's an overwhelming critical mass that doesn't even touch reality and would do that shit all over again if opportunity is present. One hallucinating 100mil people powder keg. And that is it's course for a decade at best if not more. Besides my own interests of not having this around, I feel many in Europe should know it's not a single occurence, it's a trend that won't magically end with the end of reasons or a feast of sacrifices some suggest to calm the beast. It's suicidal in it's hunger. All these nice theories grounded in logic felt from the window a long time ago.
sunk
costblood fallacyA poll, now that is a solid source
A russian poll. Even better.
Russian Pollster: You agree with the poll, yes?
Russian: Mmm.
noted
I wouldn't trust a poll done in Russia if I were you. That's like a less extreme form of asking North Koreans if they like the Kim dynasty.
"Territories Occupied"??? Territories invaded, subjugated and strip mined, OK, but "occupied"? Instantly turns into clickbait, by pro-Russian trolls. Occupied. Like I could build a fence across my neighbour's land and occupy it...
It's a commonly accepted term in English-language Ukrainian publications, unless your accusation is that the Kyiv Post is run by pro-Russian trolls.
The way to look at the word is that you cannot occupy what is yours in this context. While you do technically occupy your home it would be very strange that you’re in “Pubquiz occupied Pubquiz territory”.
At least in the US, you literally can.
