Please, for the love of God, VOTE!
Please, for the love of God, VOTE!
I don't like Biden either, but anyone with half a brain knows there are two choices in the 2020 election. If we had a sane voting system, voting third party might be worth it, but as it stands, no one but you knows your favorite candidate exists and unless you want to become their campaign manager that will still be true in November. Even if you did, and even if you convinced two thirds of the people who would otherwise have voted for Biden to vote for your chosen candidate instead, Trump would still win because half the country voted for him and your guy only got a third. If you vote third party you might as well stay home.
Not voting isn't going to stop the genocide in Gaza. The US will continue to funnel them arms no matter which candidate wins this November. Trump practically campaigns on how much he hates the Jews and he's publicly told Israel to "finish up their war". He'll also make life a living hell for anyone who isn't a straight cisgender male back here at home.
A vote for a candidate is not an endorsement of them or their policies, it's a statement that you like their policies more than the other guy's, and "sticking it to liberals" and "refusing to support genocide" (that's not what voting for Biden is doing, by the way -- a vote for either candidate is a vote for genocide and a vote for neither is an endorsement of both) is not more important than keeping the furthest right politician America has ever seen out of office.
How incredibly privileged do you have to be to see an entire national election as what will happen in the Middle East and ignore Trump's campaign promises to wipe transgender Americans off the map, and further, to not realize that the same thing will happen in the Middle East regardless of which candidate wins?
I hate Biden as much as every other leftist here. But I'll still vote for him because Trump is worse. If there's a single bone in your body that cares about the lives of your trans friends you will too.
You're viewing a single thread.
No.
I will never vote for Joe Biden again.
If anyone reading wants some apolitical food for thought: your average “no-to-Joe” leftist has a straightforward “I won’t vote for genocidares” explanation. The liberals opposite them have a wall of text about game theory and harm reduction.
🤔
Well I'm glad you live in a fantasy world where your abstinence doesn't have real world impact that is demonstrably worse, specifically in regards to the very genocide to which you refer, but unfortunately the rest of us live in the real world where sometimes we have to evaluate the weight of ideological purity vs real world harm impact.
it's a little disingenuous to call not supporting a genocide ideological purity.
i mean, i guess it's a technically correct categorization, but the people who dont have that particular ideological purity are nazis, so...
i don't plan to abstain though. PSL is lookin good for president.
Pumpkin Spice Latte ain't winning a thing. That's exactly as good as not voting, which benefits republicans every time.
how do you figure that?
i cast a vote for party for socialism and liberation and it gets counted for that party. thats not at all the same as not voting. that vote doesn't get counted for the republican party so it doesn't benefit them.
Voting isn't a chess game. I just vote to my ideals. I hope more people do, because it's the only way things will ever change, sans revolution.
Permanently Deleted
What, are liberals not willing to fight (physically) to get their democracy back from a dictatorship?
Permanently Deleted
Or maybe Americans would be more successful than the Hotel Kaiserhof in Berlin was.
Lol, yeah I'm going to organize an armed rebellion against a country that can shoot me in the chest with a fucking rocket covered in swords from the other side of the world while I'm chilling on my deck with my family.
Just put on a red hat and you'll be fine.
Worked for the average German in the 1930s-40s
I mean, obviously it didn't work for them since citizens weren't able to stop it before other parts of the world started intervening. The world can't feasibly intervene with the largest military on the world this time though. I mean, they could try, but it would be the end of all human life.
Are you? If so, give me a place and date! I'll be right there!
If not, then shut the fuck up!
You sound like a cop.
Saying "if I don't get my way entirely I'm taking the ball and going home" is the opposite of how progress happens.
And as a follow-up, aside from voting, what other real on-the-grounds steps have you taken to progress or legitimize real leftism in America?
Who says I'm left?
Sorry, I just assumed you were decent
I'm fairly moderate, and extremely moderate for a Lemmy user.
I'm sure you're decent, even though you try to make fun of me for having a distinct political ideology that doesn't conform to the leftist internet hivemind.
Most of my biggest priorities are left leaning, but outside the scope of common discourse. Such as independence from Chinese rare earth elements, prohibiting child marriage, and banning cigarettes and tobacco.
I don't subscribe to any specific version of ideology, I merely think leftist mentality is the foregone conclusion of reasoned thinking amongst decent people.
If you think I'm using "leftist" in the tribalist way popular online and not as colloquial shorthand, you are mistaken.
How childish. Get your head out of your own ass please.
excited to hear a feddit poster explain how refusing to endorse a genocide is childish 🍿
let me guess, good liberal democrat voters are just following orders, right?
What's childish is not acknowledging the 2 facts that
-
Trump will make the genocide worse. Abstaining from a UN security council vote is a pretty flaccid response, but it's the most any US President has done since since Israel's inception.
-
The US President has responsibilities and influence beyond whatever Israel is doing. Biden losing increases the chance of a 2nd genocide in Ukraine and potentially an expanding war in Europe. That's not even mentioning how much worse things are gonna get here for anyone who isn't a cishet white man.
Your thinking is no different than all the women who kept voting on the single issue of overturning Roe and are now shocked they have to carry dead fetuses to term or be charged with a crime.
-
"Their answer is long and nuanced, while mine is short, simple, and makes me feel good about myself. Therefore I'm correct."
You're just trying to get anti-Trump people to not vote so Trump can win. Anyone with half a brain knows that Joe Biden didn't do a genocide.
If I wanted trump to win I’d tell people to vote for trump.
"My argument is simpler than my opponent's, therefore it is correct"
The point of examining the straightforward morals of not supporting genocide in opposition to the convoluted justifications people put forward as reasons to vote blue no matter who was not to say that the simplest reasoning is correct, but to shine some light on the assumptions, misunderstandings and vast overvaluation of an individuals voting impact that underpin that argument.
You have to build a fucking mind palace to not just look at the two major parties, say “no thanks, I’m a human being with a soul and heart that feels” and walk away. That’s the point.
I do not know how to tell you that not voting will not make neither candidate win.
At no point have I suggested that people abstain, although it’s better not to vote than to perpetuate either of the two major parties.
And how do you propose doing that?
Idk what you mean or are asking…
Not perpetuate either of the major parties. How do we do that, if not by abstaining?
Well, a person could very easily vote for a third party.
There are lots of ways to influence politics that are much more effective than voting, especially at the local level and I can’t recommend them highly enough.
Of course, if a person was in a situation where their election for a position was constrained to those two parties and there was no write in option than that person could leave that position blank or simply not vote at all.
It’s real easy to get stuck in that trolley problem mindset, but the two parties whom the tracks represent tied the people to their respective tracks and set the car on its runaway course. You’re being asked to pick between the two of em as if you’re responsible for the situation they engineered.
To borrow a phrase: just say no.
Trump is your man all the way!
nah, i'm not planning on voting for trump.
Your vote or non-vote is just effectively counted for trump. Fly the Maga flag proudly!
Your vote or non-vote is just effectively counted for trump. Fly the Maga flag proudly!
Are votes for Libertarians votes for Biden? Is that how it works?
Yeah. Last election, I campaigned hard for Jo Jorgensen and Spike Cohen, then I voted for Biden. It was an effective strategy to siphon off the pedophile and racist-but-likes-weed votes away from Trump. A vote for a non-viable third party is just as effective as voting against the real candidate that most closely aligns with your views.
Why not try to actually educate others, rather than manipulate them?
Why not both? That is not my only strategy in life. I educate those willing to learn and I manipulate those trying to intentionally harm humanity.
You openly admitted to spreading Libertarian bullshit, rather than trying to educate them and make them class-aware.
Yes, that is one component of effective campaigning. Making the world a better place can involve both convincing others to join your cause and also convincing others to abandon the opposing cause, even if they don't join yours.
Or, you can act in everyone's interests, and get people voting for conservatives to move leftward. If your views are indeed correct, then you should have the advantage there.
Empowering the less likely opposition is what lost Hillary to Trump. The fact that Trump was ever on the ballot is because of the DNC, lmao.
Permanently Deleted
The thing is, the game theorists aren't wrong. If you want to vote your feelings, that's your right. It's exactly what the ~1/3 of Trump supports are doing.
And much like them, you aren't even required to understand the consequences of your actions to do so! (Assuming you're privileged enough to never have to face them, of course)
For the game theorists to not be wrong, endorsing a genocide has to also not be wrong.
