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  • Leftists who won't vote are saying:

    "Making a political statement is worth not only having Trump for president for the next four years, but living under a Trump for the rest of my life or fighting another world war to escape it."

    "I'm so mad at the current president for doing genocide that I'm going to stand down and tacitly support his other opponent to do genocide instead."

    • Nah this is backwards, Democrat voters need to get behind the left. If the left aligns with Democrats we continue to ratchet to the right. If everyone did what the left wants there is a way out. Either get behind the left or support the right either directly or indirectly, that's the choice right now.

      Democrats try to shame the left into supporting them, blame them for the failure, then call you a fascist because you didn't vote for one. Fuck that, Democrats don't have the high horse to say that from anymore except to each other. Democrats who support the left can do it by voting that way, otherwise they're enabling the current system just as much as Trump supporters. The conditions that give us Trump don't go away without a socialist project.

      • Democrat voters need to get behind the left

        Any strategy that requires millions of dumb people to make wise decisions is simply not going to happen.

        I see things this way

        There is a small number of good people driven to make the world a better place, e.g. me and you and many of us on Lemmy

        There is a tiny number of really bad people (e.g. psychopaths), these are your right wing leaders (gov't, church, etc) and very rich people

        There is a small number of people willing to kill others for a paycheck because they were ordered to do so (military, police, intelligence) or are sadists

        A larger number of people that are mostly goodish but not wise and not motivated to improve anything for others -- they just do their thing

        About 35% dumb people that would not care one whit about politics -- This is the main group where the future will be made

        These numbers are pulled from my ass but get my point across.

        • The good people are already trying, but so many are convinced by propaganda from foreign dictators (somehow they clearly see American propaganda and are totally blind to that coming from dictators that claim to be communists) that the way to make things better is to kill a bunch of people and force everyone else to labor under the dictators instruction. We've seen the damage this can do before to society and to the environment.
        • The bad people are not going to turn good, they are the enemy.
        • The enforcement class will be an enemy as long as they are paid, remove the money and we just need to watch out for unorganized assholes and sadists
        • The goodish people can only be prodded to vote better, that is of limited utility in making the world better, but it can hold off fascism for a time (I want to be clear, our current situation is bad, fascism is much worse, much much worse).
        • It's the dumb people -- the normal situation is they are not very powerful or organized. What's changed in recent years is that this group has been activated -- they've been turned into an idiot army serving the tiny number of very bad people. ( I think Steve Bannon and Roger Stone were key here)

        This means, they way to get out of our quagmire is to deactivate the idiot army, and they use leftist tactics to push things in the right direction outside of electoral politics.

  • I'm childish enough that I'm irritated at my comment here being removed. Here's the comment, which also applies to this meme:

    You know that weak support for Hindenburg's party was what let Hitler come to power, right?

    Not that I agree that Biden is a lesser evil, but even within those parameters, there's an absolutely glaring flaw in bringing up Nazi Germany while making the case that voting for the lesser evil is a bad idea

    And when he asked for clarification:

    My point is that the holocaust that gave rise to Niemöller's quote in the first place happened because of weakened resistance from the SPD (the establishment left), which wasn't getting support from the far-left of its day because it wasn't left enough. When as a result the fascist party gained control, it put all the far-left people in camps, outlawed the SPD, and began killing people by the millions. Which in retrospect made the complaint that the establishment left wasn't left enough to support, even against literal Hitler, seem short sighted.

    Mod banned me. 🙂

  • Ah yes. Its the leftists fault that Biden is running his campaign and his presidency in such a way as to cause people to not want to vote for him.

    • What do you believe in? What would you vote for? Is it to federally place abortion bans, or to place laws that will restrict freedoms for LGBTQ? To have a president who will arrest and remove all opposition, stack court judges and Congress with people who will only approve what they want whether the majority of the population wants that or not stripping all vestige of it being a Republic, democracy or anything salvageable?

      Either you don't want those things and vote for someone who has a chance at beating Trump, or you support those things and are voting for them. Not voting IS a vote.

      • Your acting like it's my vote that's on the line as if I'm the one you have to convince. Bro, criticizing Joe Biden doesn't mean I'm not going to vote for him; in fact, criticism and forcing him to respond to the fact that no one in his party likes his Gaza policies is the only thing keeping him viable.

        Stop being a fucking cheerleader. You are making him less likely to win with your brow beating approach to rhetoric. The fact is the Democrats simply fucking suck at governing and have frankly don't jack shit for their voters since before Obama. You have to address that in your rhetoric as to why one should support Biden. If you can't convince people to get off the couch, you lose. And your dip shit approach about the other side isn't working. It needs to be about why Biden is better or you've failed, so fucking figure it the fuck out. His polling is in the tank. The only thing we can really do is ramp up the criticism and force Joe Biden to be a better candidate, because if left to his own devices, he's already lost.

  • Did the first thread not work out the way ya wanted it to go?

    https://lemmy.world/post/13670700

    Reposting what I commented there:

    Switching away from first past the post voting allows people to vote for who represents them best while still counting their vote against those they dont want to win. Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoilereffect exists that makes third parties not viable.

    Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.

    So what’s the hold up with the rest of the states? Consider starring a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.

    Nothings changed. This is still (IMO) the way forward. Who could possibly say no to more democracy?

  • You know what would be better than trying to convince people to vote for the lesser of two evils? Fucking striking and rioting until you don't have to.

    Fuck this election, don't pay taxes until you have a democracy worth paying for.

  • If you pan the image to the side, you'll find democrats in the corner masturbating over their moral superiority as they funnel more weapons to israel to carry out genocide.

704 comments