4个月前

US Democracy

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Plain and simple... She was a woman, and a black person - There will be months of tap dancing and "deep" analysis, but we're just an ugly, atrophied, broken, racist and patriarchal nation, like deep down in our DNA. We were able to elect Obama, yes - he is half white, and a man (those weren't the loud messages as they attacked him, but Pennsylvania gramma knew those things quietly when she pulled the lever for him). It's not satisfying, but it's just the plain truth here. We're closer to getting over race than we are over sex.
Plenty of deliberate work has been done, mostly by republicans, to keep America stupid, poor and in untreated pain, yes... But we're also just trash on the whole. We raise trash and we vote for trash. We just aren't smarter than social algorithms, TV soap opera narratives, costumes and makeup. "The pretend business man is white, old, wears a tie and has a gold watch. He feels like how daddy felt when I was little, and when things are bad, daddy fixed them the way I remember it."
Video game trolls, people who failed the cop application physical and triple DUI wine moms are America. No further explanation or analysis needed.
- This reads like straight out of disco elysium. Great choice of words
  
  Thanks, I still need to play it. Maybe a good distraction for a bit to regroup and prepare for a rough road ahead.
  
  It's definitely worth your time. It'll likely make you laugh occasionally, too.
  
  Are you gonna replay as sad cop lol
- I remember hearing many democrats that joked how they voted for the white side of Obama. It wasn't funny and isn't funny now. They are not only voting against a woman but one of color.
  We are going let christian fascism take control of America because a large portion of our population is sexiest, and racist. Not to mention all those protest votes or fucker who sat on their couch rather than do the right thing.
  Now we are all fucked.
- I voted for Harris walz, but I think a lot of this is the fault of Biden for trying to run for reelection and sticking it out until July. I live in the south and I think the lack of a primary reallly hurt the ticket because a sizable portion of the people I’ve talked to felt like she was appointed instead of being elected, which is a bad move when public trust in our institutions is already at an all time low.
  
  This is all excuses. The fact that Trump made it all the way as the primary candidate for the GOP means that Republicans were okay with what he said and what he did.
  For a normal person, it shouldn't even take a second to choose Harris. But this isn't the case. Trump won the popular vote and the presidency despite all the crazy shit because a sizeable part of the citizens voted him in regardless of the reason.
  And not only that, but Republicans won the senate and well on their way to win the house.
  It is about to get real bad, and Americans have themselves to blame for that.
  
  Institutional democrats who thought they knew what they were doing and could ignore the base of the party is to blame. Biden being top of the list. Stubborn self assured who when finally pushed to change was only willing to do it on his terms. And made a decision for everyone, again.
  One of the big stories is a Democratic party Mayor of a super Blue city being corrupt and organizing police to defend him and yet not a single member of the party has spoken out against it. Endorsed by Hakeem Jeffries.
  Status quo is far more important than listening to their base right now and hopefully it changes instead of them once again thinking they need to head further right.
  And for the love all things holy I hope the Democrats learn to stop "gaming" the election with specific counties in "blue walls" because they did advanced math that told them it was all they needed. Bare minimum should never have been the goal.
  
  100%
  
  The people you talked to are bigoted cowards that wouldn't have been swayed by any of that shit - She has a vagina and she's black - That's all it was ever going to be.
  You're hearing the thing they hope their neighbor would think of them after the fact, " I was this close, Bill... I just wanted more policy detail... More time... If only they didn't make me vote for trump".
  Your neighbor fucking sucks, Bill - this is the time you pause, take a breath, and fully internalize that to inform your future interactions.
  
  Shit dude, I'm far left, believed that the only way to protect democracy was to vote for Harris, and then did it, but even I felt like she was appointed. Nobody wanted her as a first choice but we were forced to accept her when she succeeded Biden. She got 14 million less votes than Biden did in 2020. That isn't only because she's a black woman. It certainly plays a part, but we can't act like it wasn't just general voter malaise that led to this outcome.
  
  It's not "just" the fact that she has a vagina, its that that was always going to be the deciding factor. There's nuance in understanding the distinction there.
  
  So your argument is that she got 14 million less votes than Joe specifically because she's a woman? Because I struggle to see how it could be the "deciding factor" otherwise.
  
  I agree, it's an oversimplification. The Democratic party has become the party of 'going back to business as usual' and refuses to lower it's commitment to the corporations that fund it. Trump won 2016 because he was a genuine establishment shaker.
  Leftists need a rouge candidate who refuses to bow. Someone who shows promise of CHANGE and not business as usual.
  
  Leftists need a rouge candidate who refuses to bow. Someone who shows promise of CHANGE and not business as usual.
  Democrats have proven that they will sue to strip such a person from the ballot. How can they claim to defend democracy while hiding behind First-past-the-post voting?
  
  Because first past the post voting is a form of democracy, whether or not either of us have qualms with it. What is not democratic, in any way, shape, or form, is disrupting the peaceful transfer of power, which Trump has literally done, not to mention the intended destruction of the federal system under project 2025, which based on your response, I can tell you've done no research into.
  Are the parties both bad? Sure. Is one objectively and provably better for the democratic institutions of the US? Abso-fucking-lutely.
  
  A lot of people criticized Dems for exactly this when Harris was appointed after Biden dropped out.
  
  Yes. That is their argument. Because most men of alll races, and even most white women favored him. He got less votes than 2020, and won the popular, got a trifecta.
  
  None of it should factor. At all.
  The distinction between the candidates was clear enough:
  I will lower your taxes (for billionaires), I don't like immigrants, and I will say all the stuff you think and the lefties made it bad to say. Also if I don't win I'm going to jail because, for enough money I will do whatever you want (for Russia, Elon, or anyone else).
  I am an actual qualified candidate.
  There was no choice. It was taxes and fear and tribalism with a special sprinkle of election interference attempts around the horn.
  She was appointed? So what? Elect her because she's a better choice, then fix that problem.
  
  She was appointed? So what? Elect her because she’s a better choice, then fix that problem.
  I think the issue (well one of many) with this line of thinking is that as she was appointed, even if elected she would not have been fairly elected. An issue with the Dems for many years now. People vote against things more then for them and the USA voted for trump over Harris. That nothing seems to have been learned other then "she should have won" or "maybe if we go farther right it will work this time" is a real mindfuck.
  The Dems could "fix" that problem (since it is a party problem) but they don't, ever. This is as much a failing of the Democratic party as the failure of American democracy collapsing into a two party system.
- Plain and simple... She was a woman, and a black person
  She was doing better than the old white guy she replaced though
  
  Until she woke up one day and thought she was Republican.
  
  The true lesson is the one the Democrats will never, ever learn.
  
  So many republican endorsements. And each one was so very publicly celebrated. Ugh.
  
  What does "doing better" mean to you in this day and age in that context? Polls are no longer a viable tool. They are captured, manipulated and heavily biased. They ask misleading questions and ask them of non-representative populations.
  Very big difference between "doing better" in "the race" and casting your vote on election day. Again, gramma in Pennsylvania didn't think Kamala was doing better, or really she didn't care what she was doing, because there was just one "key issue" that gramma would never get onboard with for Kamala... Gramma didn't talk about that issue during "the race", but she was thinking about it when she pulled the lever.
  
  Polls, obviously.
  
  She was doing better than the old white guy she replaced though
  Was she really though? She couldnt identify a single thing she'd do differently than Biden, who has a truly remarkable and historic level of low approval.
  
  She had excitement and energy, then said she'd do nothing different than Biden. Lost a lot of energy. Got Time Waltz, more energy, and then the party told him "stop calling Vance weird" and we lost more energy.
  She had a better shot at talking trump, she just loved to shoot herself in the foot.
  
  According to the polls she was. Not sure how'd else you'd measure it, really.
- Obama was a unique situation in that he was both an incredibly charismatic JFK-style figure and ran after the Republicans had managed to both start a very unpopular war and destroy the world economy.
  
  Barack Obama also never released a campaign ad that said "Hey white dudes, we only think some of you suck."
  
  You mind linking me to that ad?
  
  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OJbIMF8dTVA&pp=ygUQaGFycmlzIG1lbidzIGFkZA%3D%3D
  
  Idk, as a white guy, that's more cringe than offensive. Maybe that's because I live in the South and can pass for a redneck, but I hear some vile shit from those other white guys fairly often.
  
  Offensive isn't quite the word for it.
  The part that bothers me is that the DNC couldn't put together genuine sounding messaging to men when American democracy itself hung in the balance. Dooming my nation because they absolutely couldn't bring themselves to drop the identity politics is a transgression I don't think I can ever forgive.
  
  "hey white dudes! .....no not you...the other white dudes."
  
  2024 was the last time I'll ever vote for a Democrat, especially given how I'm being spoken to for doing it.
  I'm done voting for the side that calls me their enemy no matter what I do. I'm done going out of my way for people who hate me. I'm done doing "the right thing" for people who are offended at the idea of expressing gratitude. It's been this way my entire adult life and I've got a belly full.
  "Hey, you're going to need the support of white men to win this election, so you should probably address their concerns in good faith here." Nope. That wasn't acceptable to the Left. The people who said that got shouted down. A couple ads like the one linked below plus others got made that were very obviously designed to conform to feminist attitudes toward men first and demand of men second. They did indeed recognize that they needed my vote, but weren't willing to try seeing eye to eye with me at all. Saving the nation from fascism and preserving their own rights, freedoms and lives in the process wasn't a good enough reason to speak to people like me with respect. And now they can burn for it. And they're going to blame me for it, just like they've blamed me for everything their entire lives.
  
  Piss into the wind some more there, bud.
  
  You're trying so very hard not to actually listen to me. Just like the Democrats.
  
  And that is why I shall no longer vote Democrat.
  
  Cool, lets fight authoritarianism by only letting people vote and be part of one party. That will sure to work out, not like this concept failed not 2 days ago or anything.....
  
  Ok you are upset because you think someone voted for one of only two parties counter to your "VERY easy choice" and that would leave only one option. That would mean a single "correct" way to vote, the same stance the Dems took in 2016, 2020 and 2024.
  Lets walk though this, You are getting upset that when people talk about voters of a demographic not feeling represented by one of only two parties someone steps up to give their own personal example. The same party that just lost to what is clearly a fascist due in part to not getting the vote of above demographic. You instead start slinging shit to someone for even thinking about not voting "the right way" (see above how they say "2024 was the last time I will ever vote for a democrat") by laughably calling them a snowflake or a reactionary idiot (I guess this could also be me) instead of even pretending to read what you are replying to.
  Neither myself (not from the USA) or the person above voted for Trump. The point I am pressing here is that the person who is getting their "special little feels get squishy… boo hoo..." seems to be you. You are advocating what? Shut up and take my guilt? Feel bad about living in a nation that given a choice between the status quo and fascism chose fascism chose fascism?
  
  a bunch of selfish assholes wouldn’t stop it because they weren’t pandered enough to.
  Yeahhhhh, once again the people you are slinging mud at did not vote for Trump. And please think about calling other people selfish assholes because they did not do as you did for the next (if there is one) election, it might help.
  
  Greater good or lesser evil?
  
  Don't like those ads? Should've stopped proving them right. We will go to the grave blaming you and your ilk now
  
  We will go to the grave blaming you and your ilk now
  Weird hill to die on
  
  I'm envisioning a pit, rather than a hill? Probably full of quicklime?
  
  Those nakedly misandrist ads were brought to my attention after I cast my ballot.
  I've never voted for a Republican in my life, but the Democrats will have to actually earn my vote if they ever run a candidate again, they may no longer expect me.
  Blame me as much as you want, you're going to anyway. I'm the bad guy even when voting your way so what'sthe point? Those who cannot bring themselves to speak to me with respect to literally save their lives can die as mad as they want.
  
  I take it you dont much care WHY misandey is on the rise
  
  Not even a little.
  
  "Look what you made me do!" just dripping...
  Maybe work on having some established personal principles and some backbone? Maybe less wielding your vote as a little golden cudgel over people's heads? Why the fuck does your vote for a complex full administration of people including court appointees that will serve long terms as they all pursue at least four years worth of basic, roll up the sleeves and work day to day policy, all hinge on one targeted ad that hurts your feefees?
  And studies have shown that people who casually drop the word "misandrist" have videos from matt walsh and nick fuentes in their YouTube watch history arguing that the age of consent is too high.
  
  See what I mean?
  I'm going to get screamed at like I'm the bad guy ANYWAY. There is no winning to be done here. I'm not voting for a party that is pro woman ever again. I'm done voting against my own interests for people who hate me. It's all I've done my entire adult life. No more.
- I don't think it's just the fact that she's a black/Asian woman.
  I saw this on BBC News which is probably correct:
  [Trump has] completely "reimagined" the Republican party from its country club voter stereotype to appealing to working class families, while the Democrats had become the "party of Hollywood".
  
  “Imagined” is perhaps the right word considering he wanted to raise taxes for low income people, and lower taxes for rich people.
  
  Oh yeah. But it's people's perceptions that everyone is hunting for anyways. It's fake love for the working class in the way the rich love their butler but will replace him if he ever gets sick.
  But that perception and the story of the party is super important and how to win elections. The Democrats haven't been chasing that identity and let it slip while trying to figure out who should be the candidate that cost the least amount of money for its donors.
  It's not impossible to see how the perceptions got to where they are.
  
  Oh yeah. But it’s people’s perceptions that everyone is hunting for anyways. It’s fake love for the working class in the way the rich love their butler but will replace him if he ever gets sick.
  But that perception and the story of the party is super important and how to win elections. The Democrats haven’t been chasing that identity and let it slip while trying to figure out who should be the candidate that cost the least amount of money for its donors.
  Why does the love of the working class have to be fake?!?!?!?
  Holy fucking hell, democrats have lost their mind.
  
  Frankly, that just shows hollywood is overhated and voters are stupid
- Setting aside whether she would've won had she been a white man, she could've made up for that handicap by appealing to the right people if she had actually been trying to win. Pinning it completely on her race and sex simply ignores her absolute failure of a campaign.
  
  And you're an expert on ignoring failure
  
  Maybe if you insult people they will be more open to your perspective?
  
  I'm not bothering to comb back through shit I said a week ago but I just assume you're another defender of voter apathy so, cool
  
  I'm not bothering to comb back through shit I said a week ago
  And yet here you are a week later with a comb in hand.
  When will you begin to make sense?
  
  You responded to me. Bye
- I get more the sense that people don't care about her so much - or him either for that matter - so much as how things in general just "feel wrong". I'm no expert but the news media having been bought out seems a likely culprit. Jon Stewart tried to warn us but we would not listen. He did his part, but if people don't value things, they tend to fall - or in this case be taken - apart.
- While this is a large part of it, a significant thing I think is that you get a lot more enthusiasm voting for something than against something. If she was campaigning for things I didn't hear it above the constant "orange shit is an orange shit".
  A number of terrorist bomb threats to predominantly democratic polling locations in swing states and other fuckery may have also played a role.
  
  Maybe care about things. Voting against him should've been enough to elect a ham sandwhich
  
  Yeah, well, I did my part. ml and hexbear certainly didn't.
  
  Cool, were im the minority, and if libs and progressives cant learn to swallow down each others candidates, the american left in general is cooked
  
  False choice dilemma.
  Democrats need to swallow their pride and arrogance and admit to themselves that they shouldn't be going solo against the republicans.
  Do away with First Past The Post voting in blue states and let more players onto the field. This fight is bigger then the democratic party.
  
  Well start figuring out how to get it as a ballot measure in your state now then do what's left of our democracy a favor, swallow your pettiness and vote for the lesser evil until you get RCV in your area.
  Greens and other parties are only doing favors for the facists as things stand right now.
  
  libs swallow even once challenge
- Should have stuck with the British Monarchy, powerless as it comes. A woman as head of state for 70 years and even better, no elections for any president during any of time.
- Totally agree. After all the progress the US is still not ready to accept anyone else than white men at the top.
  
  You people are about to overdose on copium. This is a lazy view. "she lost because of race and sex". You need to really ask people why she couldn't secure their vote.
  
  The "Run Up" podcast had an episode following the Working Families Party while they were out knocking on doors for Harris in a poor projects type neighborhood. The first lady they talk to is hesitant to vote for Harris because she's a prosecutor who jailed black men for weed. While they are talking and the canvasser is trying to convince her, her neighbor jumps in and he says something to the effect of "Harris is a woman and world leaders won't respect her and get us in a lot of trouble".
  Is sexism/racism the reason Harris lost? No, I personally at this point think it has more to do with the Democratic party's inability to offer solutions for working families - Dems are the center right party representing corporate interests and the elite while paying lip service to actual regular people, MAGA is viewed as the party of the common man, as bullshit as that is it's what voters feel. I personally think the only way forward is an actual progressive platform which addresses fundamental economic unfairness in the system, and candidates who can connect to and explain that platform to regular folk of all races and demographics.
  But you can't deny that sexism/racism didn't play a significant role in the loss.
  
  Hearing a sexist comment once is not evidence of wide spread sexism. You're allowing your personal views to color your objective view. Show me dozens of videos of someone saying they won't vote for Harris because of her sex or race and I might think otherwise. Isolated incidents don't mean much.
  
  I think blue conservatives want everyone to be thinking it's about sex or race because that would pin the blame on the voters, rather then the poltical party itself.
  
  You just completely miss the point.
  
  You just completely miss the point in my opinion.
  
  Internalized means no showy uppy on video, ding dong
  
  Please provide evidence of all this internalization of which you speak.
  
  Give me instructions to make vanilla cupcakes
  
  Well, without looking it up, I imagine you'll need the cupcake mix. Mix in some milk, eggs, oil, baking powder. Pour it in a baking pan. Cook for a specific time. Afterwards, apply icing. Boom, cupcakes.
  
  I used to respond to people like you carefully and in some depth, with the hope that others who needed the words could read mine and feel indirectly supported.
  I'm not doing that today. My original statement stands, your statement is the way you are personally trying to accept the guilt, shame or disappointment in this reality, I'll leave it at that.
  
  "my view is right because it's mine. Yours is wrong because it's not mine"
  No guilt, disappointment, or shame in my game. My life is pretty great.
  
  Actually says a lot about you if you can say that in this moment. Thanks for that clarity.
  
  Yes, it says I'm a normal person living a normal life and I don't live my life perpetually online and have not become a radical. Cheers mate.
- Slowly but surely I'm coming to terms with our modern reality
- Dems had the house for 12 years the past 16. Nothing really changed.
  People have claimed Harris wasn't capable of leading. They got their undeserved confirmation when she turned out to be a no show for 14 hours yesterday.
  You construct a Strawman. If the Dems pulled a capable and charismatic woman out of the top hat she would be able to win.
  
  "People have been saying..." - oh fuck you, dude.
  First sentence is just beyond stupid. Ignores so many nuanced changes, recovery of the economy from COVID not the least of it and just oblivious to the overall balance of power along the way with an unreasonable, obstructionist gop opposing progress at every turn, even to spite themselves on things like the border bill and the infrastructure bill more recently.
  "Enough" is never done, but that's a problem with overall politics, mixed with subjective perception. But your ignorant oversimplification here just has no place in a conversation among adults. Maybe go play with the dirt outside or go point at the pictures in that puffy book you love about firetrucks while you shit yourself?
  Your statement is just hollow. It's defiantly ignorant, smug, selfish, cowardly and just overall, you seem to (without further qualification) fucking suck. To have failed you this poorly, can also confidently assume that your family is just generations of disappointment in front of and behind you. You're useless lumps, impotently screaming at the sun... At least that's what "People have been saying..."
  
  Why did you put in quotation marks to your sentence?
  You're just salty you got red pilled.
  
  People handed the election on a silver platter to a guy who refused to concede in 2020, and shills are on here saying that Harris is incapable of leading because she took a while to concede?
  And I bet those same people complain that Gore conceeded too soon in 2000.
  What's this about the Dems having control of the house? Another person that needs a civics lesson? It's like the cultists saying that "Kamala had 4 years to fix these problems" because they don't know how our government works.
  The Dems have had control of the government for exactly 2 years since 1980. I don't understand how anyone can blame the Dems for the state our country is in.
  The silver lining in all this is that now that Republicans have complete control, it will be impossible for shills and cultists to blame the Dems.

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