Transitioning in STEM

I think people get defense around the idea of “male privilege” because they think it’s getting them something extra. It’s more all of the shit you don’t have to deal with.

Sometimes we should just, I dk, listen to what people that have different experiences to us say. I figure, I have no idea what it is like to question my gender, so maybe I should shut the fuck up and listen to what people who do tell me. The problem is, a lot of men do not listen.

Is there one gender friendlier to trans people? Just wondering. I feel like women may be, but that is my bias from my attitude towards men lol.

I think this is a huge problem even with people that would say about themselves that they respect women, or even that they are feminist. A lot of men on the left suffer from a total absence of introspection. They may not want to treat women differently, but then they just repeat patterns they have learned without any reflection, and end up doing just that - talk over women, mansplaining to them and so on. It's the same with any privileged group of people.

Men/white people/other privileged groups: if you do not reflect your actions and question your own thought patterns and influences, you will likely discriminate against others. Because the wold that influences us is total dogshite. Strife to be better.

preach. it is for reasons such as what you stated that i fully give my blessing to women transitioning to men. level the playing field by any means necessary. this is survival.

i try to embrace my male archetype because i think the worlds needs strong men, but i have come to understand the feminist perspective and i don't think there's any conflict with masculine men being empathetic. as a matter of fact, i think a truly confident man doesn't need to worry about being vulnerable and is in touch with their feelings. the macho american culture is not who we are. it is an aberration directly resulting from abrahamic religious values being hijacked by sociopaths to pave the way for authoritarianism and further subjugation of women.

and i think it's up to all of us to break these insecure macho idiots down into kneeling before a new age of humanity. make them heel to understand that they were weaklings all along.

I think attractiveness plays a large part in a lot of this, too, for anybody.

Iftfy

My wife was marked down on her PhD because she "wasn't nice enough" to her supervisor. All the assessors gave her top marks, but her supervisor vetoed them.

I also am glad you got the support. I'm constantly reminded of a friend in college who was going through an electrical engineering undergrad with me. She got all the material so easily and literally dragged me through the classes. I wouldn't have passed some key topics without her help. Fast forward a few years and I'm getting my PhD and I decide to see what she is up to: she ended up quitting her PhD program because of the insane abuse and misogyny she experienced in the department and instead changed to a masters in music. This was a woman who could easily have made field changing discoveries but was shut down because of close minded individuals. It still makes me rage and is the reason I work so much harder now to ensure my female colleagues and employees have an equal voice at the table.

Glad to hear you at least had some decent colleagues!

I told one of my friends that I'm being looked at differently in crowds now, and he just said "no you're imagining it".

Many people just do not believe what trans people tell them. At all.

I'm female presenting. I've known people who thought I was a cis woman for months, and I don't keep being nonbinary or trans a secret.

When I read actual cis women's accounts of misogyny, and also trans women's accounts, I can't relate. I don't get shut down the same way. Somehow, despite others perceiving me as female, I kept the tiny part of gender presentation that tells people to sit down and shut up when I'm talking as if I were a man. I don't understand what it is, but I still have it the same as before I transitioned.

I would love to know what it is so I can share it, but I can't tell why people respect me as much as they would respect a man. It's bewildering.

Religon is probably what initially does this to people's brains

Indoctrinating children into religious systems of arbitrary hierarchy gives little boys god complexes and makes little girls into property.

Selection bias, the people who don't discriminate aren't causing harm so you don't notice them but since they don't speak up they aren't helping either, so the jerks are still setting the tone. The solution is to not just do the right thing but actively call people out the jerks.

Something in me refuses to believe that these people knowingly and intentionally harm women. But it sure as hell looks intentional.

Most people don't do any of this "intentionally" in the sense that they are aware of the harm they cause. It doesn't even enter the realm of moral consideration.

To many, there is a genuine belief of superiority that is entirely subconscious. The easiest example is classic mysogyny in a relationship - the woman is "emotional" and therefore the man should be the one to handle "business". That's not just 1950s oppression. Some variation of that thought process is shockingly prevalent across generations.

That man doesn't really think he's harming his woman. He thinks he's helping, by being the man of the house. That same logic applies outside of romance. "I am more rational than she is, therefore I should talk now and she shouldn't."

That's not a thought. That's just a foundational belief that spawns all the other thoughts.

Ever been in an argument with another adult, and a child joined in with some naive half-informed emotional take on society?

An adult usually placates the child - explains, briefly, why they're wrong - and returns to arguing with the other adult.

That's how a lot of men see women by default. As inferior, naive, ill-informed, emotional creatures. Not consciously. Not intentionally. Many mysogynists genuinely seem to have the same intentions as the adult to the child - to placate and educate.

But its fucked up, and it's important to acknowledge that it simmers under he surface. The reason all of this is so complicated and messy is that it is so hard to see mysogyny for what it is.

You genuinely can't know if a single interaction with a single male was an example of mysogyny, because sometimes humans just condescend to each other. Sometimes humans are just shitty to each other.

But women experience so many of these experiences in aggregate that they can't give the benefit of the doubt to every man they meet, especially when the man himself might not understand his own implicit biases.

Personal experience from when I was newly an adult, and chatting with a female university classmate and somehow got on the topic of games and I started explaining what Steam was, because I just subconsciously assumed, her being a woman, didn't know.

She politely pointed out I had mansplained to her.

I am very thankful to her for the experience as it's stuck with me and saved me from making a fool of myself on more than one occasion since.

I'm sure there are possibly small things like this, that you may have been been "guilty" of in the past.

These men, are engaging in similar behaviour cranked up to 1000.

However, it's even more malicious with them, because it's not like the last 30 years or so haven't had constant and increasing messaging (in the anglosphere, at least) about feminism and ways in which women have been treated unfairly.

So, it's not like they haven't had the opportunity to reflect, and change.

In summary, yeah, it is kind of baffling, but I will say society, while largely better than 30 years ago, still does have structural as well as conscious and unconcious bias towards women.

So I'm not surprised people like this exist.

Something in me refuses to believe that these people knowingly and intentionally harm women.

One thing I think that goes too far is people either think misogynists represent 0% of 100% of men. It's neither. There are some men that are extremely prejudiced against women and will cross the street just to bother them, and then there's a huge slice of men that support women as best they can.

I mean, if nothing else, incels definitely exist and they would treat the women in this situation wrongly. Do you think no one is an incel?

I understand now how people can believe sexism is not an issue. Do you not have any people who are women close to you who have faced this professionally?

I want to say that "unconscious cultural" doesn't exist, but I don't think I'm right on it. You can easily build consciousness on those topics and thus easily spot the cases with risk for any wrongdoing, and with how common and well-known they are, it just feels more like "willingly ignorant".

Of course there are good and bad aspects to any choice.

Trans man here to say that nobody needs to give any extra cred to MRA bullshit just because a trans person is saying it. I have also been through the full dude experience including profound loneliness. I likewise thought I was prepared but wasn't. Its hard. I miss how things were before too.

I also know that in general, in 2025, all people are more isolated than 20 years ago. Furthermore, it is a known phenomena for a longtime that friendships are more difficult to cultivate as an adult. I doubt how different things would have turned out for me had I not transitioned.

I also know that the "distance" I now experience from women is a direct result of 20,000 years of patriarchal violence. Of course women relate to me as a potential threat; I am one. And without the presumed vulnerability I possessed as a woman, men relate accordingly. Of course.

At some point, as a trans guy, you need to stop leaning on your experience "as a former woman" to compare your life to, especially in the negative. Being 22 is not the same as 42 no matter what your gender presentation at any point. Many people experience nostalgia for their youth.

As a man, you get to feel safe, but you don't get to be a nurturer or nurtured. You can speak up whenever you want, but not about your emotions, fears, or grief. You have the freedom to do whatever you want whenever you want, as long as that doesn't involve anything feminine, which turns out to be many incredible things, like emotions, intentional parenting, grooming, baking, and so many other activities I've learned are too feminine.

Just as when cis guys make these complaints, I question this person's definition of "you dont get to". In fact the article describes him making a career out of doing so. Even specific instances of "going viral", and the affirmative feedback he received. It seems that you do get to.

Which leads to pointing out that the whole thing is an advertisment for the author who is "a Professional Corporate Speaker and Stress Management Coach".

And it has anti-trans hate material suggested items in the middle of it:

I share what others have said about your likely difficulty in seeing what's going on around you. However.

I have a couple of female friends who moved as adults to US from Russia in the 80s. Both said they were shocked when they found out the things that weren't soviet propaganda, like how women were treated day to day, and the systemic discrimination against racialized people. Neither of them is immune to racist or sexist bevahior, and now having lived here for so long even moreso, but there is a difference in baseline expectations at the macro scale. Years later they still express surprise when even the pretense of attempting equality is absent or made a joke.

That said I've met women and men from elsewhere in the former USSR (both older and especially younger than the above) who are very heteronormative and accept their "place" in hierarchy. I understand there was post-soviet backlash culturally. How do you view that? In the past 2-4 decades is there progress, regression or what? My point of view could be tainted by selection bias in terms of who chooses to move countries, and where they land.

The fact that Russia underwent a revolutionary transformation in the 20th C, from serf to industrial, when it could benefit from an existing articulation of gender inequalities, must take some credit for present equality, no? To have such a big material shake up, and at least with the goal of addressing the patriarchy. I dont think in the anglosphere we ever had that.

Idk I'm pretty hard rn

I had that with a contractor who had had my number for work purposes. He kept trying for 5 years.

I'm a butch lesbian, my mistake was being polite and chatty with him.

Is that ... a bad thing? I am missing something, did he take the number from somewhere or you gave it to him? But otherwise calling someone and asking out is a pretty harmless thing to do.

I was actually joining the chat to write that things are not that different in biology. I have a PhD and 7 years of postdocs behind me. Over the years I have :

• been denied a management position because "the team was only men, who wouldn't listen to me" (spoiler alert, they put an incompetent guy in charge who screwed up massively and I ended up taking over, successfully).
• had a boss who systematically doubted my opinion (while he was not a specialist of the topic) but listened to the very same argument from a male colleague
• had male Masters students who could speak uninterrupted during meetings when I couldn't
• got denied a tenure position for a guy with the same profile (literally the same topic and same labs) but much less experience than mine (like 5 years younger) This last one broke me, I ended up quitting academia

Sorry, but this sounds exactly like what male privilege is. Assuming that it doesn't happen near you because you haven't noticed it.

Ask your female friends what sorts of sexism they genuinely face regularly and I think you'll learn a lot.

Granted, i'm a man

you haven't noticed racism and sexism because you are a male who's the "proper color" for the region in which you reside.

male privilege and white privilege are often misunderstood to mean like "special privileges" and poopoo'd because plenty of white men struggle to get by in this world, but that's not what it means.

it means the privilege of 'being taken seriously', the privilege of 'benefit is the doubt', privilege of 'basic respect and decency'.

it also has the benefit/drawback of 'privilege to be blind of misogyny/racism'. I believe you wholeheartedly when you say you've never seen it, but that's the "privilege".

The responsibility you hold in return for this "privilege" is you must believe the words of peeps who don't share this "privilege" when they tell you their experiences. after all, why would you see these things? How else would you experience them when you aren't directly a part of them?

'course you wouldn't! That's fine! Normal! why would you see them? those things aren't directed at you. that's really all the "privilege" is!

back to responsibility, be careful not to dismiss the words of people who have direct experiences of racism and sexism just because they don't match your own. remember, these things aren't directed at you!

have a good one

Lol not from what I've heard about Italy

I live in America and haven't noticed this as a man, I assume the misogynists have enough self awareness to keep it somewhat out of sight. The last time I noticed something inappropriate, the person quietly left the company a few weeks later. I have no idea if it was related to what I saw, but I wouldn't be surprised.

I 100% believe that it happens, it's just not visible to me.

This is anecdotal, but male teachers get a special treatment if the school staff is mostly women.

Unironically yes. As a male STEM student, I had a much easier time finding a study group, I didn’t feel singled out and isolated in my classes, and people took the things I said seriously.

It’s like magic when I go to the doctor - the second they find out a uterus, it’s like their whole body language changes.

The opposite happened to me when I transitioned. When I was perceived as a guy, if I was in a meeting, people didn't instantly fall silent if I spoke, but if they tried to overtalk me and I just kept speaking, they would eventually give way. I transitioned 8 years ago, and from the earliest days of my transition until now, if someone starts overtalking me, they will just keep doing it even if I don't stop talking. The only way to stop them is to vocally call them out and ask them to be quiet until I'm finished.

Similarly, I used to be seen as one of the two "tech guys". The person that people would come up to and ask for tech advice to avoid calling the internal helpdesk. After I transitioned, they started coming up to me and asking me where the other tech guy is.

My career has stalled since I came out. I'm in a trans inclusive country, in a trans inclusive workplace, and I transitioned so long ago, that most people don't know that I'm trans or simply forget. But since coming out, the various shoulder taps in to project opportunities and the like just don't happen anymore.

Maybe people went silent because they were fascinated by or fixated on the unusual timbre of the OP’s transitioned vocal cords.

It's a nice theory, but it's somewhat strange how my own experience as a trans person transitioning from male to female had the opposite impact. Did people start overtalking me because they were fascinated by my timbre?

Additionally, OP was in the same department for years and then transitioned. So, naturally people would approach a more experienced person for help or advice regardless of perceived sex if they knew that person was there longer than them.

Again, it's a nice theory, but in my case, they stopped approaching me. And even the ones who don't know that I'm trans don't approach me that way, because I'm not seen as one of the "tech folk" anymore, despite not losing my experience when I transitioned.

but OP seems to be using the worst possible anecdotes

Similarly, you are using the least likely possibilities that contradict the first hand experience of folk directly in these scenarios to fit your pre-conceived notion of what is happening.

Yeah, the OPs post and mine are anecdotal, so you shouldn't take either of our experiences as universal truths. But your takes aren't even anecdotal. They're suppositions.

Everything they are describing is well supported by solid evidence that you can look up. Further, in conversations of what would drive women out of stem, the welcome harshness and sexism pushing people away is the core of issue.

Ultimately this dismissive attitude towards a well known and understood phenomenon speaks to the arrogance of those that disagree with the well established reality.

You are going out of your way to poke holes in someone describing a very rare and valid view that demonstrates the discrepancy gender presentation gives in lived experience, and how it follows well tested sexist trends by holding their tumblr post to the standard of a scientific paper. You are so desperate to preserve your warped world view that the severity of sexism in STEM isn't as big of a deal as it is made out that you have taken a genuinely ridiculous position.

Do better.