3天前

we had a good run

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- Harris actually got more votes than Biden in most of the key swing states. Can we stop this narrative of blaming anyone other than the tens of millions that actually picked Trump?
  
  Nope. Because I do blame the third party / uncommitted crowd for sowing division, doubt, and getting in the way. We were in a burning building, and those groups were blocking the fire exits.
  
  You're a sucker, blame anyone except the billionaires who have bought democrats and repubs alike to get us here. If you can look at the fact that we produce enough to feed 10 billion people yet people still starve, or that there is £36 TRILLION in offshore tax havens as of 2016 but can't afford basic needs for people, but it's people who voted against genocide is the problem?
  
  Because I do blame the third party / uncommitted crowd
  Blame the people who actually did something or scare away anyone from bothering at all with you guys next time?
  Trump won this time by less than he lost last time
  Let's stop pretending the Dems didn't run a dog shit campaign and lose a fuck ton of votes, yeah? Voting isn't obligatory, the Dems failed to get people voting for them and the reasons are multiple and have been explained in detail many times already and likely many more times in future. Blaming the people who objectively didn't cause this just shows inability to actually criticize the people they're putting up and is a dog shit deflection of blame
  
  Right, cause without them there would have been no doubt in the democrats, surely.
  
  If everyone of them voted for Harris, she would have still lost. The only "voting bloc" if you can call it that matters was the non-voters, and you get them interested by offering policies that voters find good.
  Harris wasn't doing that. She said "I won't pivot from Biden" and talked about having Republicans in her cabinet. Harris was showing off how she got the Cheney family on her side, the political family who helped orchestrate the war on terror.
  If you're unsure, you see a Democrat trying to be a Republican, and you see a Republican. One is clearly better than the other in that Harris wasn't going to instantly install autocrats like Musk.
  That was my default answer, "I dont like Harris in everything, but I hate Trump. She can be talked to and reasoned with. Trump only listens to ass-kissers and money. I value my tongue more than I have money."
  But for people who are focused on just trying to survive paycheck the paycheck, they don't have time to see that. Especially since voting days aren't time off for most Americans. You have to work to put food on the table, or spend time waiting in line to vote.
  I'm thankful I can get mail in ballots a month before the election. I can look at my local elections, my statewide referendums, and check if I agree and who's paid for the advertising. Most states don't have that "luxury".
  I do blame them for not voting if they had an easy way of voting. Mail in, early voting on a weekend, requesting time off to vote. I don't blame them for seeing that one party is trying to act like the other party from 2004 that became the fascist party in 2016.
- The stick was actually running a soft right democrat to combat a far right candidate, the gag is blaming voters.
  
  The stick was not seeing (or even acknowledging the existence of) the bigger picture.
  
  Well, the bigger picture in my comment is that the Democratic party will rip their nose off if it means not running a progressive candidate willing to stand firm in their progressive stances, and that choice between a soft right candidate and a far right candidate is like choosing between a piece of chocolate or the whole bar. What bigger picture are you referring to?
  
  [Gestures vaguely at goddamned everything] for starters.
  She might not give us all ponies and blowjobs, but literally none of this dystopian nightmare would be happening under Harris.
  
  I voted for Harris, but I didn't like voting for Harris, as she represented the incrementalism that got us here in the first place.
  The only reasons I voted for Harris was because she picked Tim Walz as her VP pick (who is a legit social democrat, even though I am further left than that) and because I wanted to stave off fascism for another 4 years.
  I also believe that voter shaming is a great way of pushing people away from your idiology into the hands of the enemy's idiology, as we have seen play out many, many times, especially over the past few election cycles post-social media.
  
  Sure. But that's not going to change the fact that she fucking lost because she was a terrible candidate for Trump and ran a Republican campaign. The voters are not responsible when both parties coronate their candidate in back rooms.
  
  Yes the voters are responsible!
  It's called making the most intelligent choice, seeing the bigger picture, and doing harm reduction. I am beyond sick of the blame shifting being done to justify people not taking this election seriously .
  The threat of Trump 2.0 was apparent and not even remotely a secret. if people didn't see that or take that seriously, it is their fault.
  
  The problem is, unless you're very wealthy, it's obvious the current system we're living under strips workers of their material needs. It's easy as a populist to say, "I'm going to smash this system" and get a bunch of people who desperately need a way out to vote for you.
  Harris unfortunately, and this is systematic with the DNC, is tied to the material interests of the capital class. There was only scolding but no vision of a materially beneficial future for Americans.
  No talks of universal healthcare, universal pre k or going after big business. Hell, she was going to continue to genocide Palestinians.
  I voted for her, but we've been fucked by both parties since I've been born. I want, nay need a leftist candidate who will break the system for us but I haven't seen one yet.
  
  Why is the democratic party not at fault for "not making the most intelligent choice". You act like harris was set in stone. And that her stance on israel had to be set in stone. Or any of the other terrible policy and campaign choices that were made by the dems. The threat of trump 2.0 was apparent and not even remotely a secret. If the democrats didnt see that or take it seriously its their fault.
  
  Voters carry blame, but that does not make them responsible. The responsibility lies with the political parties.
  
  Yes, the 2-party system sucks, but it is the system we have. No amount of whining or wishful thinking was going to change that.
  There were two choices: Status Quo (but not fascism) and Speedrun to Fascism.
  "Not Trump" was not a candidate. If voters couldn't suck it up and vote for the only viable non-fascism candidate, then it is their fault and they are responsible.
  I'm done with this debate since you seem to want to blame everyone but the people who didn't do their part.
  
  If the system relies on everyone doing everything perfectly, then the system is flawed. Take a moment to reflect on the fact that voters chose to reject the status quo. I'd personally prefer it too, but the fact is that people saw the option between status quo and something different, and leaped for something different. That says something about the deep, systemic flaws in the status quo, the neoliberal parties, and how they paved the way for fascists to take over the neoliberal conservative party.
  I'm openly saying that voters have blame to carry. But remember that blame and responsibility are separate. The parties had an obligation to prevent fascism, and they failed. They are responsible.
  
  I'm openly saying you have to carry the blame and responsibility of what's going in
  
  Ah yes, the "everything is just fine just look at this graph" picture
  And before anyone says anything: I voted for Harris. Just like I voted for Biden and Clinton and Obama and Obama and Kerry and Gore. The only ones of those who actually got into office were the ones telling us things would change.
  Don't be mad that they ran a shitty campaign to convince a populous with a sixth grade reading level and defunded civics classes to figure out how to vote.
  
  not pictured (cliff they are still going to jump off)
  
  Got one
  
  Got one what? I voted.
- Oh my God shut the fuck up unless fewer people voted Dem in swing states... which they didn't. Stop refusing to address your addiction to moderation.

112 评论