Biden reacts to pro-Palestinian protesters: 'They have a point'
“They have a point,” Biden said, after the protesters were escorted out. “We need to get a lot more care into Gaza.”
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The UN passed the resolution calling it genocide so I agree with that, I trust a democratic vote of the UN despite their inability to actually do anything compared to South Africa. I'm still going to vote Biden though because I know about project 2025 and know that we will probably get genocided in our own country if he loses. It sucks but that's how I feel.
If the only thing Biden ever does is keep Trump from office it will be a net win.
The IRA and the CHIPS Act were pretty legit - granted, I think trump might've passed some version of the CHIPS act as well. Seems like a no-brainer, imo, but the one that did it gets the credit!
The IRA even addresses the corporate tax loopholes in a clever way. There's a minimum tax that they still have to pay even if their normal tax burden comes out to $0. I think it's like 15%.
What do you mean by IRA like I know Biden is of Irish descent and I would whole heartedly support an American backed IRA but I doubt thats what happened.
The Inflation Reduction Act- link to one page summary
It's the "Inflation Reduction Act"
AKA The Build Back Better bill minus everything progressives and leftists fought for.
Huge win if you're a moderate or a liberal. Yet another slap in the face if you're slightly left of either.
I’m not sure the ends justify the means.
? There are no "means". all you can do is vote, and then something is going to happen depending on who wins. It's not "do bad thing to get good result", it's "do neutral thing to get less bad result" or "do nothing to get shite result".
Is voting not a means to elect Joe Biden to prevent Trump?
I don’t think the Palestinians suffering a genocide will see the “means” of voting for Biden as #neutral. This is the disconnect, many of us are selfishly more concerned about our menial lives than we are for people across the world; when the reality is we are no more important than they are. Either we’re all humans, or none of us are.
Palestinians are going dislike Trump a whole lot more.
What’s project 2025?
Project 2025 is a conservative plan to immediately reshape the executive branch and replace most people with Trump loyalists immediately if he wins. It includes dismantling the FBI and Department of Homeland Security, because while Republicans like to claim to be tough on crime, they really don't like an independently functioning Justice Department that has shown their leader to be a criminal.
Remember this is essentially what the dictator of China did to seize power in the 2000s. Ascend the ranks and replace people who didn't agree with him.
You incorrectly assume the rich fucks care. They'd just reform into an underground group no longer bound to any pesky laws stopping them from killing whoever they want at any time.
They’re not already?
A maga movement to seize power and turn the US into a theocratic dictatorship.
A fascist purging of government the Republicans have planned if Trump wins.
Yet another reason the working class must NEVER disarm.
Yeah. Although I doubt Americans will ever have the balls to actually properly revolt. By the time it would get bad enough for them to actually consider taking up arms seriously there will be robot dog armies and it will be moot.
I hope I’m wrong though.
The same fearmongering we heard in 2016 and 2020. You must save Democracy for the 12th year in a row by voting Democrat!!
After Trump dies some other Republican will take over that says crazier shit and then you must keep saving Demoracy by always voting Democrat. Never vote third party.
Well historically I’ve voted independent. I’m Canadian, but we have similar party issues.
Honestly seeing shit like this though, if it really is just fearmongering, it’s fucking working. This shit looks horrifying to me, I’d probably end up voting for Biden just to not let trump in. And I fucking hate Biden.
Canadian
Oh boy. How about the recent fumble of electoral reform by the Liberal party in Canada eh?
"Oopsie poopsie, now you HAVE TO vote for us or yous gets the conservatives again! LOL!"
Haha bro don’t even get me started on that shit. Boils my blood.
Trump already won in 2016 and the world didn't end back then. It's not going to be better than Biden but it sure as hell isn't going to be as bad as people here make it out to be.
It almost did. There was a mob of people just a couple doors away from murdering most of congress and making Trump a dictator.
The only reason Trump failed to end democracy is because he and the rest of the Republican party were just trying things without a real plan.
They have a plan now. If they get a chance to use it, they will be successful.
The Democrats sure waited a long time to prosececute Trump with that. Now the result of that trial will be after the election. Thank Democrats for saving Trump from jail.
What're you talking about? Democrats were sharply criticizing Garland for not bringing charges sooner, and still are. The Justice Department is independent, not an arm of the presidency.
And, it took Garland time to bring a case because you can't put together a case against the previous president of the US in a day. You only have one shot at a prosecution like that, and it needs to be flawless. It's like the phrase "when you swing at the King, you better not miss". It takes time to build the necessary case.
Blame the supreme court instead for being lazy and in Trump's pocket.
I hope you’re right. It went about how I thought it would go last time. That insurrection thing threw me though. And all the court cases coming after trump, as well as that project 2025 thing, this time seems different to me.
If the Dems were serious about prosecuting him he wouldn't get bailed out at the last second every time.
Also Dems purposely delayed the inserruction case now the verdict won't be until after the election. Real convenient now nothing can stop Trump except voting for Biden.
I have been really annoyed with the protest vote arguments because our system is horseshit and we still have to play within it, but there is no disagreeing with this. I’ll be voting a lot of these useless assholes back in this time as a last-ditch effort, but a purge of the bad actors is long in order. I lost faith in our institutions with Trump in charge, but when it’s come down to punishing that hunk of offal, nothing the dems have done has brought that faith back.
To be honest though, even if things in that situation were going better, I’d still be unconvinced. Outside said institutions, I truly believe that we are not participating in a society, we haven’t been for decades, and that’s got nothing to do with the government.
If that’s actually their game plan, then that’s the most idiotic game plan I’ve ever seen and it is definitely going to put trump back in the White House.
They can’t seriously be that stupid though. Can they?
I think it could be possible that this is the game plan they’re going with because it’s lazy and won’t piss off any donors, which doing things actual leftists want would definitely do.
If that’s actually their game plan, then that’s the most idiotic game plan I’ve ever seen
I mean, this is the party of the pied piper strategy.
They can’t seriously be that stupid though. Can they?
They're not stupid. They're pro-corporatists. They can't prosecute Trump without harming some other rich fucks in the process. When Trump said he'd have to have a fire sale to make the bond amount that wasn't a complaint it was a threat. Commercial real estate is already being propped up by fake numbers. If Trumps properties went up for sale it would blow that whole thing up. That's why he's being protected.
Pro-corporatism has no way of addressing fascism. And the Democrats are a pro-corporate party.
What an evil stupid system. People wonder why there’s voter apathy among leftists. This is why.
The DNC screwed over Bernie in 2016 to make sure a real progressives wouldn't win. They shoved in Hillary which was (and is) so bad she lost to Trump 1.
The Clintons actually suggested Trump to run thinking he'd be such a pathetic opponent that it would land them an easy victory.
Make no mistake, the Democrats prefer having Trump win over someone that could actually impose change.
Trump is their perfect enemy because they can keep running trash candidates and having them win solely on "not Trump".
Democrat voters screwed over Bernie, not the DNC. Bernie was on every single ballot. All people would have had to do is actually get off of their pampered asses and go vote for him. They didn't. She won. We got Trump as a result.
Yeah, if I recall correctly it was the 2020 primary where Bernie got most supremely ratfucked.
A huge propaganda campaign from the elites that control the DNC does wonders.
The American fascist party was born prematurely. They've spent the last eight years incubating within the Republican party and are ready to go mask-off now.
Bush was way worse than Trump.
Aside from saying some real dumb shit Trumps presidency was a lot milder than expected.
I would agree with you, except for COVID. That shit was nuts. Trump would have easily won re-election if he just let scientists make decisions.
Edit: Thinking about it more, you’re right. War and occupation directly and indirectly claimed the lives of about a half-million Iraqis from 2003 to 2011
There also wasn’t any hurricane katrina style fiascos under Trump, as well as Trump deciding not to invade Venezuela, which was a surprise. The Syria shit wasn’t great, but it was NOTHING like Iraq.
God the bar is set so fucking low it’s embarrassing.
Trump's influence on the Supreme Court has been utterly disastrous for the US and leftist causes
You can thank the Democratic judge for refusing to step down under Obama so he could have appointed a new one.
Nobody thought Trump was going to win until too late. RBG thought the next president would also be a Democrat.
But she was also naive and thought that she should do her job as long as possible, and that Republicans could be reasoned with. The court really needs a max age.
Regardless, this is a bit moot, since Trump had 3 total SCOTUS picks. RBG's seat was just one.
But throughout it all, life went on. The people of Germany lived in and often simply accepted the new normal that came with the rise of fascism –- a state of normalcy that, if the war had ended differently, could have become normal, everyday life for much of the rest of Europe as well. source
What a charmed life you must lead. I wasn’t really affected by his policies either but have you noticed the way things have been turning for the people his goons have been targeting since the chuds became empowered?
It is imperative that we bury the GOP first. Then, we absolutely can and should go knives out on Team Blue™️. I don’t disagree that Biden needs to go, and that most of the Democrats are obstacles at best to truly repairing our long-dead society. Hell, don’t just vote, actually fucking run for office, start somewhere where you aren’t so completely outgunned by the moneyed interests but you also actually make a difference. But for now, we need to take down the more immediate threat.
Throw rocks at me for saying it, but the Dems’ fecklessness is our fault too, to an extent. The problem is complacency when the pendulum appears to have swung in our direction, like “yeah we got the job done!* Let’s have pizza and congratulate ourselves and go back home!” Fortunately, it may finally no longer be the case. But for christ’s sake, can we not throw the baby out with the bathwater? The upcoming, inevitable fight will be less harrowing if we can keep from actively making the battlefield more hazardous, which absolutely will happen with a Trump win.
*christ, I remember when Obama was elected and there was a false prospect of healthcare reform, Newsweek published a rather insulting cover saying, “we are all socialists now”, simultaneously feeding the right’s paranoia and patronizing the left in such an insulting way
You're not going to bury the GOP by voting Democrat. You will just worsen the situation.
Biden is continuing to build the wall, jailed twice as many immigrants as Trump, is committing Genocide, and so much more. Biden is just a GOP candidate with D in front of his name. He is one of the biggest establishment democrats who has built his career on empowering the elites.
Fine. Trump ‘24 then. Whatever, he’ll fix it.
Probably not. But maybe the moderate and liberal voters will finally wake the fuck up and realize they need to compromise with leftists or progressives if they want to win elections.
Ehh, I think it’s more that we have to be a better electorate and put better people in office in the first place, even (and especially) when there is a dem majority. Like I said, we have had the tendency to get complacent when that’s the case. It also doesn’t help that, for a long time, we didn’t have a cohesive message—when Occupy was happening, everyone’s demands were all over the damn place and just came off as diffuse and disorganized. But like I also said, it sounds like we’re getting better about it, though I don’t know whether that’s because this place really does lean heavily left, not reflecting the population at large. That may not be such a bad thing though, this place could be a good place for planning action.
I don’t disagree that the democrats are, at best, milquetoast, feckless do-nothings, but fighting everyone at once seems like it’s going to be an abject disaster with any victories being pyrrhic, if existent at all. I hope I’m wrong. I just don’t want my daughter, anyone’s daughter, to become a brood mare for the dominionist state.
I think it’s more that we have to be a better electorate
Who's "we"? I know exactly which race and generation is to blame for all this pro-corporate trash that keeps making it's way through the Democratic primaries. And even people who say "Well more of you show up to the primaries!" argue that liberal and moderate voters won't vote for progressive or leftist candidates or even a liberal or moderate candidate who dares materially compromise with progressive or leftist policy. So we'll win the primary only to lose the general.
Doubt. They'll just bury in sand and go even farther/faster right
Then we're fucked anyway. Let's get it overwith.
The line is wearing thin, since democracy keeps being in greater peril even when we elect Democratic majorities.
Democrats would rather protect the filibuster than democracy.
Democrats would rather lose the election to a fascist than stop aiding a genocide.
1
Pointing out that Biden will lose if he continues supporting genocide is not supporting Trump.
Everything is getting worse regardless.
Let's get it over with.
We aren't Russia (for now). We can still effect change at the state level by getting rid of First Past The Post voting and passing comprehensive electoral reform.
No we can't. Liberal and moderate voters will never allow it. Nor would the establishment Democrats it's benefitted.
When they're both doing genocide, does it matter?
It does when one wants to do more genocide, and make it local.
Maybe you guys will get a say in the genocide next election cycle, sorry.
Certainly there will be no blowback for allowing a genocide to occur to prevent fascism.
Pass electoral reform in your state first, then you can vote third party with zero chance of a spoiler effect.
Check out a video on First Past the Post voting if you'd like to learn more.
a boogeyman
I just perused the Wikipedia page, doesn’t seem like a boogeyman to me. Considering it’s backed by the Heritage Foundation. It seems horrifying to be honest.
Don't worry. I'm sure they don't really mean to install Trump as the president for life, make LGBTQ+ illegal, instill Christianty as the state religion, deploy the military for law enforcement, etc, etc. Hitler didn't REALLY mean he was gonna kill millions of people!
I don't think they can pull it off. it's a ghost story.
Let me guess- if you are American you stopped hanging out with your right-wing neighbors/family? Because for some insane reason, I didn't. This is 100% what they actually believe. They really think that anything left of Trump is part of the deep state conspiracy, homeschool their kids, think that bringing back "god" in school/state will fix everything, that Trump will save the country, etc, etc. Some of them already know about project 2025 and have greeted it with thunderous applause, the rest of the right will too.
If you are not American, fuck off. You have no idea how bad the right-wingers really have become
you don't know anything about me
this whole comment is attacking me personally rather than refuting anything I said
Because you said nothing other than "Nuh uh"
wrong
You haven't made any statements worth refuting, you've only given your unsubstantiated personal opinion.
that's not a reason to make personal attacks
You didn’t say anything of actual value comrade. Explain to me why you think something backed by the heritage foundation, which is a big money organization and not something to be taken lightly, holds no weight? I’m not American, but seeing this makes me worried for Americans. It seems like Republican takeover of a huge amount of power in the states.
The democrats are atrocious for leftist movements. This is not debatable. But this is death of the leftist movement in America shit as far as I can tell. It seems like a huge leap towards Christo-fascism if attainable. I don’t see it as something that should just be ignored on any level. Why do you feel that it is? Maybe you know something I don’t.
I don't think I have some special knowledge. the heritage foundation are impotent, and p2025 is like a child's letter to Santa. they will get some of it, but they'd be getting that whether they wrote the paper or no.
Saying The Heritage Foundation is impotent might be the most ignorant thing I've ever seen. The Heritage Foundation is basically running the judicial system in our country. Their strategy completely worked they control the Supreme Court and they control a lot of the federal courts in this Nation. They are an existential threat to democracy. Project 2025 is a road map. Anyone who can't see that at this point is probably rooting for that road map.
Its not, but plenty of Lemmy accounts are running around with a vested interest of convincing one and all that Biden and Dump are the exact same candidate and not voting is the answer. Its why theyll spam anything and everything about the Gaza genocide to the front page while not so sneakily inserting comments like this or, "gEnOciDe JoE" in the middle of it all.
not voting is the answer
no one said that
Or maybe people have a legitimate moral concern when their country is aiding and abetting an ongoing genocide?
Two things can be happening. People with a legitimate moral concern, such as myself, don't actively act against that concern by helping elect a candidate who would make that concern even worse. There are ways to express our anger and sorrow about Biden's handling of this without supporting Trump.
Biden is going to lose if he continues his genocidal policy in Gaza.
People like me put pressure on the Biden admin to change course. By engaging in good faith criticism, I am trying to get Biden elected.
People who refuse to criticize Biden enable him to continue on this losing path. Enabling the worst of the Biden administration's policies is helping to elect Trump.
Yes, I completely agree, so far as I can without looking up your post and comment history to confirm that you do what you are saying here you do, but taking your word for that. Good faith criticism isn't what Pan_Ziemniak seemed to be describing.
I left a reply to the other reply under ur comment, if ur curious to hear me elaborate on the patterns im describing. As u stated, it is not good faith criticism that im railing against. Theres not a person i know who doesnt criticize Biden, but thats not what im afraid of here.
Good faith criticism isn’t what Pan_Ziemniak seemed to be describing.
That's because what he was describing is a strawman.
Its bc what i was describing won me tons of bans on reddit post API changes, and then was the first thing I noticed here on lemmy on literally day 1 of making an account. The pushback at the moment is real, but take note how you hardly hear the world news subs talk about Ukraine being genocided, but you only hear about Gaza, even though the casualty count in Ukraine is much higher. The Gaza posting is relentless, too. Almost like its a distraction from the place that russia has described as a steppingstone multiple times now.
Ive been furious at israel for over half my life. Even before they started gunning the strip down, they were an apartheid state cramming as many political prisoners as they could into their jail cells. Somehow tho, that went from being a fringe opinion to all u hear about overnight. Accounts link the ones i listed in another cpmment spam post anything and everything they cant to keep the eyes of the public where they need to be. Its no coincidence that this aligns perfectly with russian goals.
Meanwhile, weve got Status Quo Joe following up on 70 years of precedent and selling arms to whats been a key middle eastern ally of the States, and everyone acts all shocked pikachu that we dont get to just shit on our worldwide softpowers and convince our remaining allies who are very wary of our continued political instability that we may just abandon them too, if only the tides swing the other way. The genocide in Gaza will not be stopped, but for the first time in my life the man in the oval office is actually dishing out criticism of israel and stood behind Schumer when he aaid israel could use new untimely elections over this.
In the other corner, youve a man who doesnt want any more free elections in the country, rubs shoulders with dictators of countries that want nothing more than for the US to be utterly ruined, and actively campaigns on allowing not just the ongoing genocides to continue, but also genociding our own, native vulnerable groups.
In 2016 id bring up the russian trolls/shills to some who claimed "nonsense, not here on reddit," or the comments sections of whatever news it was they followed. And yet, we still learned after the fact that almost every account in the country had directly interacted with russian bots at some point or another. Id like to be clear, russias MO of deculturalizing and destabilizing countries has been pretty consistent for centuries now. I recommend watching that 1980s interview with the KGB defector that floated around reddit some years back. It outlines that bit pretty well.
What i rant about is hardly a strawman. Its pushing back against narratives that seek our end.
(Spoiler)
If that means they take (in)action that lets Donnie win a second term, they don't
this is incoherent. i think it has snark poisoning.
Orange man is so bad that you'll actively support a genocide, very enlightened, great job.
Thanks! "orange man bad /s" really takes me back to the days I was scrolling r/con for laughs
Congrats on making it to Lemmy
Orange man is going to crank it up to 11. Dems range from feckless to complicit, none of us disagree. The GOP would just straight-up take over for Israel if they can get away with it (they probably will) and they’ll sanction murder of people within our own borders.
Blue man is so not good enough for you that you’ll actively support escalating a genocide. Very enlightened, great job.
We can't afford to wait until November.
Can't escalate a genocide if they're already dead.
What is your evidence to say that all Palestinians will be dead by November?
The neoliberals here will have no problem adapting to life under fascism. It's a tale as old as time.
It's hard to get Americans to care about the death and destruction that occurs at the behest of the American Empire. People like the commenter above see the people of Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, and so on as subhuman cannon fodder. Why should they care about the genocide of those they don't even see as human. In their eyes, all brown Muslim people and the spectrum of humanity that resides in these countries ravished by our foreign policy, are just simply terrorists. And when younger generations watch these horrors unfold in real time on social media, and advocate for human rights, the knee-jerk reaction of Congress is to ban a social media platform rather than to have any meaningful impact on the situation, as their MIC/corporate/AIPAC donors have dictated.
Ahh, gotcha. Guess we really gotta push for Status Quo Joe harder then unless we want "stepping stone for the de-nazification of Europe" Ukraine to be genocided even harder than they currently are. Or, lemme guess, the russian talking point i see the shills parroting is, "ackshwallee, Ukraine has some guns/ammo so that mustn't be a genocide," right?
I prefer genocide Joe. Or Beholden-to-Israeli-corporate-interests Robinet Biden.
Take note of how this person doesn't acknowledge my comment or it's content.
Lemmy accounts are running around with a vested interest of convincing one and all that Biden and Dump are the exact same candidate
if this were true you could show one.
^^^
Ill add return2ozma, linkerbaan, and tokenboomer off the top of my head. Each karmawhoring to keep themselves visible.
Each karmawhoring to keep themselves visible.
i don't think you understand how lemmy's vote system works.
none of them have said that
Also nudding whos crawled out of the woodwork. And they have, but the bulk of their work is spamming only the news they want u to see.
Well, you, for a start.
I have never said that
demanding evidence is not astroturfing.
they couldn't keep bush 1 in office, no one takes their economic freedom index seriously, they didn't stop Obamacare... they're a joke.
You say that as if Obamacare was what we actually wanted. They wrote what became Obamacare decades before the tea party threw their tantrums over it, their opposition to it was political theater and the chance to water it down even further
Possible genocide in the USA should one of the two viable presidential candidates gets elected?
Will the democrats stop pursuing gun control considering this imminent threat of genocide?
I’m still going to vote Biden though because I know about project 2025 and know that we will probably get genocided in our own country if he loses. It sucks but that’s how I feel.
Instead of picking between a genocide and another you should just vote for someone else and don't support any criminal.
Stein says that Russia had no other choice but to invade Ukraine and commit genocide there, and Cornel West has a similar position I believe.
If you don't want to vote for a genocide apologist, you basically can't vote.
she called the invasion illegal, and the only extent to which your comment is correct, cornel west agrees with that.
I've responded to your other comment.
Stein says that Russia had no other choice but to invade Ukraine and commit genocide there, and Cornel West has a similar position I believe.
neither of them said this. your comment is straight misinformation.
https://twitter.com/DrJillStein/status/1629226431006875651?lang=en
"So yes, Russia illegally invaded Ukraine – but did so with a gun to its head, or in this case, nuclear-compatible missiles. Compared to the US mobilization for immediate nuclear war when roles were reversed w Russian nukes in Cuba, this response was relatively moderate."
She's went with the old "but NATO would be right there!" argument, which is pro imperialist apologia.
EDIT: I forgot Dr. West.
https://www.newsnationnow.com/politics/2024-election/biden-war-criminal-cornel-west/
"When it comes to Ukraine, we must grasp the implications of NATO expansion and its potential to escalate into a catastrophic conflict,” West stated. He called for an end to the war in Ukraine and urged diplomatic negotiations to ensure both Russian security and Ukrainian freedom."
Once again, a pro imperialist argument that Ukraine isn't allowed to do what it wants because it would piss off it's former colonizer. And a pro imperialist argument that we know better than Ukraine and they should stop fighting because we said so, even though they want to keep fighting.
i love that you shared that thread. anyone can see she opposes war and genocide just by reading your link.
Yes because surrendering to genocidal maniacs is the "anti war" position.
And in this case, being anti NATO is being pro imperialist. Russia is angry that a former colony is going against them. NATO is supporting the colony against their former colonizers. Suggesting that the colonists stop fighting and do whatever the colonizers want is pro imperialism, and it's what Stein and West are supporting.
No support for Israel. No support for Russia. No support for colonizers. Any "leftist" against Palestinian and Ukrainian aid is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Suggesting that the colonists stop fighting and do whatever the colonizers want
no one said that
So Stein has a brilliant negotiation tactic that will succeed where everyone else has failed, and it will lead to Russia completely withdrawing and paying for rebuilding Ukraine?
she might. i don't honestly know.
is that your standard for biden, too?
Yep. Anything short of Russia's total retreat is unacceptable, and ideally they'll be forced to pay reparations as well.
Something often forgotten by the "stop the war now" crowd is that the war could be over tomorrow if Russia withdrew. This war only exists because Russia invaded another country to stop their sovereignty. The war ends if Russia leaves and respects Ukraine's sovereignty.
Would you find it acceptable if Biden negotiated a deal where the Palestinian genocide would stop if half of Gaza fell under Israel's total control? I certainly wouldn't. You don't give oppressors a reward.
being antinato is being anti-imperialist.
calling for an end of the war is not pro-russian. you are providing evidence against your own position and then lying about what the evidence says.
It certainly is if Ukraine wants to continue fighting to reclaim their own land.
Let Ukraine decide, and support them in whatever their decision is.
i'm an anarchist, and i don't believe states should exist at all. there are people living in the region called ukraine. i want them to live without any government, russian or ukranian.