My running theory is he is a moderate republican who, after January 6th, realized Trump is going to kill democracy. He donated shortly after, but with the recent uncertainty decided solve the problem with his own hands. Unfortunately, he made a rookie mistake and held his breath instead of breathing out before taking the shot, didn't properly sight in his scope, and / or just choked.
I'm not in anyway supporting any form of violence let alone an assassination attempt on a former president. This is not the way to conduct democracy, there are much better ways to address the current issues. I am merely trying to point out why he was so close but still missed his target as if it were a paper target not a living being who, regardless of transgressions, doesn't deserve to have their life taken from them.
Criticism is welcome and appreciated
Edit: Criticism is welcome and appreciated
Everyone is assuming it was political, but imo he's just a run of the mill loner incel mass shooter suicide by gun guy. Picked the rally cause it was the most impactful thing nearby.
Hard agree. Incel shooter looking to go out in a blaze of glory. I'm guessing there will be copycats.
Maybe he really liked catcher in the rye.
Or Jodie Foster.
Maybe he thought Trump should have offered him a job. Maybe he's a fascist and thinks Trump isn't quite fascist enough. Maybe he was just a disillusioned anarchist.
Yes, there are totally better ways to address current issues.
If he’s a gun nut, he may have just believed that he was using his 2A rights to remove a tyrant as the founding fathers intended. This assassination attempt very clearly shows why gun rights are antithetical to democracy.
Antithetical? If anything the last few years have shown that we cannot rely on precedent and good-faith to sustain a democracy.
I'm of the opinion he is just a Republican and just like every other Republican he is mentally ill and too proud to admit to it. They have guns and fantasize about violence. He may have been ostracized and this was his "I'll show them" moment.
I understand the want to paint things in black and white, especially in these kind of extreme circumstances. However, the "two party" system has an insane variety of greys. I'd love to be able to say "Republican = Bad" "Democrats = good" but that's not how the world works. There are as many 'good' Republicans as 'bad' Democrats. You're good if you work for the people your bad if you don't. I generally disagree with blanket statements but everyones opion matters
There is reports he was rushed as police were peeking up on the roof but were scared away. That or the person who was interviewed lied
Unfortunately, he made a rookie mistake and held his breath instead of breathing out before taking the shot, didn't properly sight in his scope, and / or just choked.
I'm not in anyway supporting any form of violence let alone an assassination attempt on a former president.
Sure you aren't 🙄 some kid was radicalised and died and another innocent man died thanks to the likes of you
You opinions are yours, but I honestly don't want anyone shot, or think they have to shoot someone. I just read too much, and think too much. Theories are theories and nothing more I nearly speaking in the sense of his point of view.
Just a quick question on the topic of not wishing him dead. This is more a curiosity on my end in context of the legal death penalty.
Are you firmly against the idea of taking a life even if they are abhorrent. Or is the issue with the lawlessness of a public assassination?
Would it make a difference if someone gets a legal death penalty but then get murdered illegally.
Does it make it justice if the assassin was on paper technically legal and in line of that, what makes the death penalty objectively just?
Does “your” moral reasoning of murder always come down to individual cases and subjective gut feelings.
You dont have to answer all or any of these, someone else may give their opinion. But a philosophical one not a political one if possible.
I truly believe that spending your life in solitary confinement with no access to anything but your thoughts would be FAR worse than putting them to death. Let them stew in what they have done for as long as possible. It cost less than execution thanks to the ridiculous appeal process afforded to death row inmates.
In an attempt to answer your questions: 1.a. see above 1.b. regardless of reason, assassination has generally turned out badly. I love the time travel joke about killing Hitler but a different guy does the same thing. 2. The one to be executed losses their right to appeal and prove their innocence, as we know there have been many people wrongfully executed. They murderer of said death row inmate just becomes one. Loes loes 3.a.currently the president can legally have his political rival assassinated, or so I'm told, and this is far too much power for anyone to weild. 3.b. I don't really see the death penalty as just 4. Yes every case needs to be evaluated separately. Assassinating a brutal dictator to bring people democracy, probably could have been done without murder. A woman being assaulted who accidentally shoots and kills her attacker, totally justified, panic reaction, give them therapy. A psycho who totrues, kills and eats babies, death by 1000 cuts.
I hope this helps, I hope my answers are sufficient and understandable. I'm happy to clarify if needed
I don't think that there is a line we can draw, short of saying "no killing whatsoever," that can't be abused. If we say, "No killing unless they're judged guilty," then we leave it up to fallible lawmakers to make just laws, and fallible police and prosecutors to be honest and decent, and fallible jurors to try and turn this into a decision.
Or let's say we make the rule, "Only fascists can be murdered." But who decides if someone is a fascist? Is it someone who believes the ideology, or do they need power or authority to act on it as well?
Basically I don't think there is a system of rules that could be implemented that would not kill innocent people as a byproduct, unless the rule is just "no killing."
The simple philosophical answer for me is: if you murder someone because of a past deed, or threats of a future deed, you're denying human capacity to change. I personally feel, given the right circumstances, everyone has capacity to change, learn, grow, evolve. Pretty much every bad deed can be put down to humans being opportunistic, selfish, manipulative or backed into a corner. I imagine things would be very different if their needs were met and they were well educated. Most countries (at least in Europe) at least attempt to use the prison system for rehabilitation rather than expensive punitive measures and/or slavery.
Political answer: Trump should be in jail for many, many crimes, not dead.
My personal opinion used to be "those who are beyond change, those who are so cruel, vindictive, undeniably atrocious, evil, maniacal ect. should be put to death, removed from the world they clearly shouldn't be in". After many long discussions with my closest friend I have come to believe that death is too light a punishment. Those who truly deserve the harshest judgment should live a long life, in complete isolation, devoid of all pleasure, entertainment, contact, ect. Take away all that humans crave besides basic human needs, let them truly suffer for their crimes.
Obviously, every individual instance of any crime should be dealt with by a fair and balanced jury, judge, defense, and prosecution, with as much fact and evidence as can be attained without prejudice or predetermined judgment based on personal biases.
I'm obviously long winded but am super happy with the engagement on my comment. I don't like arguing but I love hearing others opinions! Thank you all!
I've heard reports stating he had no scope. This dude had no military training or anything of the like and I suspect in a moment like that your adrenaline is going through the roof. Odds are quite high he was shaking like crazy. Odds are high he knew he was going to die in seconds.
Where he stands politically I don't know, but this could be case of "suicide by cop" combined with a, "well I might as well..."
To just provide a counter-narrative, his father is a Libertarian; his mother is a Democrat according to a local canvasser. It's possible when going to the DMV he was pressured by one of his parents to pick a registration at 16 and that of course stuck with his record. Not exactly a long political history between 16 and 20. Nevertheless we shall see. His interest with Demolition Ranch and the discord channel may reveal some insights. Maybe the Epstein files sent him over the edge or something.
I haven't kept up, this dude is. Republican?
Edit: I read the wiki. TL;DR he is 20 and registered as a Republican when he turned 18. He donated a small sum to a progressive PAC as well.
So kinda a Republican but information so far doesn't really point at him having deep rooted conservative ideals. Again this is just summarizing the wiki so new info probably will make this out of date.
Tbf the current Republican Party doesn't have "deep rooted conservative ideals" either.
Maybe deep rooted isn't what I wanted to say. I agree that the current GOP is a cynical engine built to enrich the wealthy, but the base they have cultivated truly believe in the bullshit they spout, even if it is only maybe 8 years old.
I guess that is what I meant. The shooter was a kid and wiki didn't seem to I indicate a ton of maga social media stuff.
All that being said there is already new info so I am out of date.
They do if you consider fascism the logical end point of conservatism.
From what I understand he wasn't the one who made the donation, it was some 69 year old guy with the same name. This hasn't been fully confirmed yet though.
This is an important data point if true, would like to see a source if you have one.
What is your source for this?
I feel like he was just registered republican as he really wanted to vote against trump, even to get him out of the nomination
His classmates said he was definitely conservative.
He could have been a conservative who didn't like Trump though, they do exist, as rare as they seem..
This has been pretty thoroughly debunked by now. The kid was a conservative through and through. Why he'd shoot the presumptive nominee of his own party is a mystery though, and we might not ever find out.
Time to retire this one. Peaked.
A registered republican tried to assassinate Trump so now we have to start hoarding porn, forget about weed, and start thinking about how to live in poverty because now there's no way he'll lose the election. What a time to be alive.
Best one so far
Bravo 👏
given his donation and that the area is heavily republican its likely he registered to vote in the primary and have some effect on elections. This indicates he was a pretty sapient fellow though which is worrisome given his actions.
My understanding is that you needed to be a registered Republican to enter the event. Wouldn't that basically make that point meaningless?
