Has anyone noticed how some liberals are disgustingly trying to equate the Palestinean struggle with Ukraine?
Has anyone noticed how some liberals are disgustingly trying to equate the Palestinean struggle with Ukraine?
Seriously how are they wrapping their heads around that the racist hegemon wants to wipe both Palestine and Russia off the earth, and is funding their enemies in both cases?? Do they think the US doesn't know where their interests lie?
US: Allied to Israel and Ukraine. Gives them billions in weaponry. Consistently votes against Palestinian statehood. Funds the murder of countless Palestinians.
Russia: Consistently votes in favor of Palestinian statehood. The USSR even fought a short war against Israel in the 1960s.
I was talking with two friends yesterday. Apparently they always supported Palestinians, but once they saw Hamas soldiers screaming Allah Ackbar and kidnapping civilian women, they are of the opinion that they're not better than Israelis. "It's just two Nazi Germanies fighting against eachother." Was a banger I heard during that discussion. Another banger: "You don't see Ukranians murder and kidnap civilians, do you? They are respectful of POW."
I tried my best arguing; to no avail. Whatever I said, I was countered with smth like, "well i support them too, but this kind of force is totally unjustified". So in short I failed the argument.
“You don’t see Ukranians murder and kidnap civilians, do you? They are respectful of POW.”
Like fuck they are. Even if we use only the Ukrainian sources, they routinely report Russian KIA:POW ratio as being way, sometimes even multiple times, higher than even during the most brutal fightings in the history of humanity.
Meaning they, by their own admission, either kill or do not take prisoners.
Thanks for this; I shall use this knowledge next time I speak to them. Tho honestly I think my energy is better spent elsewhere.
Permanently Deleted
Whenever anyone does this, I like to use the metaphor of an older woman defending herself from a purse-snatcher. "Is their violence the same?"
It's very morally satisfying for ppl from colonizer countries to equate the violence of self defense, with that of colonizers... and euroamerikkka (and Isn'treal by proxy) is the greatest purse-snatcher in history.
Counterpoint, there is no such thing as civilian Israelis. They are all criminal settlers occupying stolen land and condoning genocide against the people they have stolen from.
Honestly the idea that Hamas fighters or Israelis are intrinsically better as the others people is seems to me like a bizarre discussion. Like tbh I don't even know what people are trying to say when they say this or what they could possibly think they are proving. The question of support for Palestinians is not one of their individual leaders' or soldiers' personal virtue but one of judgement of support for relatively progressive forces in the actual historical context.
Settler-colonialists are intrinsically a reactionary force, but their children have not chosen this. Honestly I feel like I'm going a bit insane as I've also seen people celebrating videos where parents are tortured and murdered in front on their children. I've also seen quite a bit of anti-antisemitism on the comments sections of the videos. The psychologically healthy reaction to that is to be shaken and to see it as evil. The reasonable response is also to know that Liberation has nothing to do with that and does not necessitate it, is not invalidated by it.
That has nothing to do with the right to self-defense or general support for the Palestinian liberation cause, given that some people seem to making the massive jump to concluding that it means that self-defense necessarily implies or condones or means that we shouldn't think as fucked the torture and murder of children and sexual violence against women hostages, which is just mind-boggling and twisted. I completely fail to see what the righteousness of Palestinian liberation has to do with this. If the PLO has tortured children, any reasonable non-psychopathic individual would have said that is fucked and unacceptable and reactionary, while also recognizing that that doesn't affect in the slightest the need to support Palestinian Liberation when and wherever the opportunity presents itself. If that was true of the old PLO, it should be infinitely more true of Hamas.
Nor does it have to do with hang-wringing over the the death of civilians, as the support for armed struggle against any imperialist or fascist power has to recognize that those are inevitable. There were atrocities committed by the Red Army during the conquest of the Third Reich, but that did not affect the undeniable legitimacy of the Soviet cause. We can also recognize that it is an unavoidable feature of the asymmetrical warfare that Hamas will have to use what will be described as 'terroristic methods', but which are just a particular type of guerilla terroristic methods (as aiming for terror, psychological shock) as are used by every single power in any war.
"im criticizing Palestinian resistance, because right now they're actually fighting back and the worng civilians are being killed"
Never saw so many people condemn this kind of atrocities by the regime. Also, saying that "their children have not chosen this" reminds me of the apologies on fascists. I can tell you yes, under mussoloini his ideology was mandatory so the people didnt choose it, but on the other hand they were affected irreversibly. To this day the ideology survived, and not by any mandatory dictate of the government.
On your comment more generally, we dont get to choose how the oppressed people fight back.
TLDR: the israelis are still genocidal, they act on their own will whether they are children or not.I agree that we shouldn't celebrate any individual acts of needless cruelty (although I haven't personally seen anyone doing so), but collectively equivocating Hamas fighters and Israelis is bizarre; there are disgusting people in every sufficiently large group, but it's a tiny percentage in Hamas compared to the overwhelming majority of Israeli settlers
I rely don't believe they're putting any deep thought into it. They just root for who they're told too.
If they put deep thought into anything then they wouldn't be libs in the first place.
That's what happens when you operate only on vibes
When you always stand up for the small kid in highschool even though he's been saying racial slurs
The top post on "dankmemes" right now "which coincidently has been doing the super edgy thing of agreeing with stayed department propoganda for the last couple years" is the shot from Rick and Marty of "20 minute adventure in and out" literally with putin crossed out and Hamas instead, Russia crossed out and replaced with haza and ukraine crossed out and replaced with Isreal.
In case anyone was wondering if it literally is anything more than "but Ukrainians are white"
is the shot from Rick and Marty of "20 minute adventure in and out" literally with putin crossed out and Hamas instead
do they think the Israel palestine conflict just happened now
I think a lot of their thoughts on it were simply born yesterday...
Probably yes, just like how they think the Ukraine conflict started last year and not 2014 or earlier
This post is attracting a lot of downvotes; it's a shame none of the downvoters have commented
js, y'all could eliminate downvotes and you'd get to watch the squealing little cockroaches come scurrying out of their hidey holes
Cowards.
specifically a 3rd-world lib i saw with the status "save palestine and ukraine from israel and russia"
American propaganda is global and will take generations to undo
The first step is stopping it before undoing it. Good luck
Zelensky/Ukraine is endorsing Israel...what's their mental gymnastics going to be there?
i don't know, i've distanced myself from him and his stooges ever since they decided to bring up CPC-related drama from TWO WHOLE YEARS ago in my own server in order to dogpile on me
So messed up.
There are very significant parallels, but Ukraine is Israel and Donbas is Palestine.
Global capitalist chessboard. All ethics are an afterthought. 'the ideas of the ruling elite' etc... libs support what they are told to support. Politics are complicated who has time to investigate historical context?
We are in an information war. That's what it boils down to
Maybe it's as simple as this: they have an underdog / martyrdom fetish.
Palestinians getting murdered en masse: "thoughts and prayers!"
Palestine fighting back: "Stop using violence!!"
It's just a trick. When libs have a take, just pat them on the head and be like "that's a good lib, yes Palestinian is good" and just move on. They don't support Palestinians, are they willing to support them with more than a tweet? Nope,
Most interesting to me in all these conflicts is that the same people who claim and know their local media is corrupted and lying about local issues (that they themselves know about), think that same media is telling the truth about some far away country.
Crazy.
If they claim Fox is always lying, than they should turn on Fox news and believe that everything Fox says is a lye.
Kinda like this one.
It would be less disgusting if they did actually be consistent in their equation. In my experience the sort of people who equated Ukraine and Palestine when they wanted people to support Ukraine are now crying about "violence", "disruption of peace" and "terrorists" when Palestinians decide to punch back a little.
:colour palette emoji:
good bot
Has anyone noticed how some liberals are disgusting
Yes, and that's as far as I needed to read. It's more than some, though.
If this lead to liberals ending support for Israel then that'd be one thing, but it won't. They'll thoughtlessly compare the situations and then draw essentially zero conclusions.
Ukraine talks about territorial integrity and say that this is their land and the Russian-speaking majority should leave but ...
Recognizes Ichkeria (Chechnya, where no one is fighting for it lol) from Russia on the basis of "self-determination" at the expense of Russia's territorial integrity
Tend to support Kosovar "self-determination" against Serbia against their territorial sovereignty
Supports settlement of Palestinian land (recognized by 138 countries, 7 billion people)
Support Yaroslav Hunka who fought with the nazis for "self-determination" against Soviet territorial sovereignty
And then they support "Israeli territorial sovereignty" just like they support their own as the Slavic Israel.
I haven't seen people comparing Palestine to Ukraine, but I have certainly seen people saying that the recent offensive against Israel is somehow all planned by Moscow...
In a way it might be useful as those same libs might call for (military) aid to Palestina but since our governments are on the side of Israel, the thin veil of bullshit might break
Meanwhile Palestine and the Donbas are almost directly analogous, including the Al-Aqsa Flood and Russian invasion both being in response to a heavily telegraphed impending attack by the actual oppressive forces.
It's actually become worse than this in the last 24 hours. Now they seem to equate Ukraine and Isreal as victims, and call Palestine the aggressor. Have seen some liberals disgustingly accuse Palestine of being the genociders. They throw out history in one breath and rewrite it in the next.
Correct the Record and the Israel bot campaigns are out in force.
but equating with ukraine wouldn't mean that they are in palestine side? and accepting that palestineans are fighting against a big bad genocidal regime?
We don't want Russia wiped out, just for them to get out of Ukraine. Easy way to end the war, pull the troops back. Not sure how that concept is difficult to understand.
NATO provoked the war by encroaching on Russian borders. The invasion could have been prevented by just not trying to expand a hostile military alliance. Analysts across the political spectrum warned of this during the Bush and Obama years at least.
Calling for Russia to get out of Ukraine without calling for a resolution to the provocations that caused the war in the first place is ignorantly delusional at best, deliberately disingenuous at worst.
The sheer bravery it takes to stand with the racist hegemon is truly astounding. I applaud you.