New Gaza Conflict shows that “Abraham Accords” can’t bring Peace as Long as Israelis keep Palestinians Occupied and Stateless
New Gaza Conflict shows that “Abraham Accords” can’t bring Peace as Long as Israelis keep Palestinians Occupied and Stateless
Ann Arbor (Informed Comment) - The conflict that broke out on October 7, 2023, between Palestinian militants and Israel underlined …
Informed Consent
As long as three different religions all think important fiction occured in Jerusalem I don't think there will ever be peace in Israel. Does that mean a Palestinian state should not exist? No. It absolutely should and could.
I think this is widespread myth. This has been a heavily populated region for thousands of years, and most of them haven't looked like the last 70.
Also, I think we need to stop talking about Palestine should exist" and start working towards the one-state solution.
Tell the people building a wall to keep the other people caged off about a "one-state" solution.
You can argue "there are good/bad people on both sides" doesn't change that one segment of the population is being treated like a caged dog...
...And then we wonder why the dog bites the hand that feeds it.
The suggestion that if Israel simply lifted the blockade and stopped all security operations in the West Ban there would be complete peace is ridiculously idealistic and naive.
You are not going to convince a nation that just saw hundreds of citizens brutally murdered and kidnapped that the only thing they have to do is fully open the borders and smile, and then the people who just murdered them will come out and be their friends.
The inverse is also true. Israel has kept these people bottled up in what amounts to open air concentration camps for the last 70 years, and constantly killing Palestinians for that entire time.
Israel has never cared about collateral damage in their war on the people who lived there before.
So imagine a people, treated like criminals for their entire lives, all because they lived on the land that Zionists wanted.
All that resentment for the unceasing oppression let the worst elements gain power.
The path to change is not to expect the oppressed to stop lashing out. Only in ending the oppression can there be change.
But the Israeli government isn't interested in stopping the oppression. They could have done that at any time in the last 70 years. No, they seem to want a full genocide.
The reason that Israel doesn’t go full speed on genocide is the same reason why they never actually pursue peace. That is, the ruling authority there benefits from having a persistent threat. They get to maintain and build power and wealth while genociding in a slow enough fashion to not raise a critical mass of objections from their benefactors in the United States.
Not only the resentment but Israel actually helped their worst elements gain power in order to cause an inner conflict within the Palestinians. They supported Hamas's growth to cause a fissure between them and the PLO.
If Israel wanted to actually genocide the Palestinians, it would take a few hours.
I don't want to suggest that Israel hasn't also taken actions that are completely opposed to peace - West Bank settlements to name a very big one - but that cannot excuse what happened yesterday. There is a lot to criticize on the Israeli side, but Israel has not attempted a wanton extermination of every Palestinian it sees. Israel's prime aim is to ensure its own security, and it will do that at all costs. No peace will ever be reached unless Israel's security is guaranteed, and so any actions - no matter how potentially justified or not - that threaten that security are inherently counter-productive.
Almost every statement you just made is demonstrably false.
This isn't that profound an observation, because the same sentiment works in reverse from the point of view of Palestine. There's no way that they can appease Israeli revanchism. That's why the situation is so intractable.
This is a ridiculous straw man.
Look up how many civilians were killed on both sides since the beginning of this clusterfuck.
Nobody is saying that 100% of the Palestinians would then make peace by doing that. But doing so would rob Hamas of all its popularity. Palestinians turned to it because they had no other choice; Abbas was doing nothing to stop the slaughter of Palestinians and asking the world for help got nowhere. Conversely, if all attacks by Palestinians stopped for good then most of the Israeli rightwing would be abandoned by the Israeli public. These two groups are not as different as you think.
Palestinians are the only ones who can end this conflict. It's been half a century, and they have never once been willing to accept a solution that didn't include "Right of Return"... a mechanism by which they would overwhelmingly claim voting rights in Israel, and essentially vote Israel into an anti-Jewish Muslim theocracy.
Israel won't agree to any peace deal that would see it voted out of existence.
Israel is also able to thrive even under the threat of terrorism.
They can wait forever.
The ball is in the Palestinians's court.
This conflict will be over the day they say to themselves, "hey gang... Uh, I don't think we're going to get our land back. And I'm tired of living in poverty. Let's take the shit peace deal and get some land and autonomy, and look forward instead of backward.
There's no other way this ends. Anything else is a fantasy.
And I've never seen the anti-Israel crowd come up with a single coherent rebuttal to this.
Ah yes, why shall we grant them voting rights, it is so much better to create a humanitarian crisis, endlessly increase the buffer zones and the restrictions on the Palestinians, depriving them from food, clean water, fuel, expel them from their homes, create even more illegal settlements and then act surprised when they revolt.
Why should we care for civilian lives on the other side of the fence. /s
Right?
The two state solution isn't workable, because Israel will never allow a viable Palestinian state. The only three options are
- genocide
- a permanent state of apartheid
- giving the Palestinians the vote and letting the political chips fall however they may
All three options have downsides, but in my view the third choice is the only one that's sustainable in the long run and not morally monstrous. But I have no confidence at all that that's the pathway that will be chosen.
What, pray you, is the nuanced downside to genocide?
Edit: lol I forgot the /s didn't think it was necessary. Your wording was funny to say there's a downside to all 3 like genocide is even an option
Nobody left to feed the cats
Bad press. Gotta worry about stray kids getting all angry and coming at you years later. It’s a lot of work. But, they learned from ze Germans
Guaranteed the Israeli govt talks about it as a viable option, the blasé attitude of their soldiers when it comes to shooting children or anyone not Israeli is an example. They’re just as bad as the saudis, our money lets them have carte blanche for whatever the fuck they want to do
People die.
Looks like the author is suffering from amnesia.
Can we just agree that both of their "religions" are full of shit and both sides should just fuck off?
This is not a religious struggle. It’s a political struggle, just with religious overtones.
Indeed. Even if they all became atheists overnight, Palestinians will still need a place to live with jobs, water, electricity, security and economic opportunity.
Imprisoning them in desert ghettos and blockading them will only further breed resentment and violence.
I agree with you. Which is why every time either side injects religion into it, they muddy the waters. Imagine if all religion were forcibly subtracted from the entire dialogue and they just had to negotiate over armistice, land, and rights. Seems like it might actually have a chance. But with zealots on both sides, it’ll never get down to pragmatics.
I think it’s much better known how Islam is full of shit. If you ever want to know how full of shit Judaism is, go learn about the ultra orthodox. The labyrinthine contortions of keeping kosher are enough for me to call crazy.
But I think at the bottom, it’s not about religion for the Jews of Israel. It’s about racial identity and self determination. Unfortunately, they chose to create a home in perhaps the most contentious place possible. They did this to tap into religious belief as a source of zeal and solidarity.
So even if Israel is not primarily a religious phenomenon, it decided it was going to play with religion and double down on religion. This helps mask the fact that it’s basically an ethnostate. They’ve been hiding their racial ethnostate behind accusations of anti-semitism for a long, long time.
Always so interesting when these things happen, every internet commenter is an expert on any complex situation.
What it shows is that a low of troll factories are trying to switch to sparking and feeding a conflict where Netanyahu was clearly being left out more and more internationally as the abuser, and it is a conflict that were the over-bearing colonialism on the colonialist side is not even comparable to the mass slaughter Hamas has inflicted.
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Outlawing religion wouldn't solve the problem, religion is used as an excuse to further political goals and rally people under ideologies, it's not the cause of it. If there were no religion, they'd just find something else to rally people under be it ethnicity, political ideology or something else.
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how can you have peace with a people who's stated ideology is to exterminate everyone who isn't muslim? That's literally what their holy book says. If Israel laid down arms and offered a hand of peace, they would be instantly leveled by 10,000 rockets. It's quite hilarious and sad to watch progressives in the west twist themselves in knots trying to figure out how to justify defending an ideology who's stated goal is to murder everyone for a ticket to heaven. They don't care about the lives of anyone, including their own people. They don't have any judeo-christian ethics, like you inherited even though you don't believe in the origin story. There is nothing in their mind or soul stopping them from raping, killing, and spitting on your dead body. And they would if we ever gave them the chance.
Do you honestly think if we just disengaged and let Israel get leveled, that the terrorism would stop forever? That is so hilariously naive. They would come right for us eventually. They'd come for everyone. Never forget, their goal is to murder everyone on earth who isn't muslim! It's in their book!
Man I don’t know where to begin.
First, the Quran does NOT say to “exterminate everyone who isn’t Muslim.” The Quran says that Jews and Christians worship the same God and that they are to be protected as equal citizens. It also says that Churches and Synagogues are places where the same God is worshipped and so Muslims are commanded to protect those houses of worship. Theres a reason the Golden Age of Judaism occurred under Islamic rule, as Jews were protected while the rest of Europe led pogroms against them.
Second, Jews and Muslims lived together peacefully in the Middle East for over 1400 years and still do in places like Morocco and Tunisia. There’s a lot of current outrage over Israel massacring Arabs and stealing their land but that conflict is barely 70 years old. Heck, there was a new non-Israeli synagogue built in Lebanon and even Hizbullah said they supported it.
I’m a practicing Muslim, my college Jewish roommates would be surprised to hear you think I wanted them dead. My religion actually tells me to protect them as I would the rest of my neighbors. It’s really clear you know absolutely nothing about Islam; you should pick up the Quran and read it from page 1. It’s short and you’d be surprised at how it doesn’t match the false stereotype you hold.
Bro, i don't know what you're smoking but I want some.
So, everyone has to have judeo-christian ethics? Are you fucking kidding me? You do understand that most religions are basically a rehash of the same shit? You also understand that it's hard to be ethical when you are subject to genocide?
They would come for us? JFC, you're either ignorant or just brainwashed. Those people are just like you and me. They want to live a normal life, have kids, enjoy life. Just because they have a different religion does not make them subhuman.
The only acceptable way to treat someone subhuman is in a consenting sexual scenario. Everything else is abhorrent.
Wow, you really showed them huh, and didn't come off like a frothing retard at all.
The Quran says a lot of things, sometimes contradictory. It's best to see how the followers interpret them and which they hold to.