I'm not speaking for autistic people here, but I am speaking as parent to two children (now adults) on the spectrum.
Autistic children do not ruin your life and do not have ruined lives themselves. As with all parenting, sometimes things are very, very difficult and sometimes things are very, very easy. This isn't unique to raising a neurodiverse child, this is just parenting. The unique challenges that parenting a neurodiverse child brings are 99% of the time caused by how society thinks these children/adults are and assumptions about whats best for them without actually asking them rather than any sort of intrinsic issue caused by their autism or ADHD or any other neurological difference. For the remaining 1% of the time, you just do your best.
The narrative that neurological difference, in particular autism, ruins lives has, in its modern form, been with us since Andrew Wakefield first perpetuated his fraudulent claims of vaccine damage causing autism. It was spread by antivaxx/autism activist parent groups like Jenny McCarthy's Generation Rescue and the truly despicable people at Autism Speaks. These are the people who've ruined lives.
An autistic life isn't a ruined life.
ITT: people advocating eugenics on themselves. I hate it. I hate seeing it. And stuff like this is psychologically destructive to read for me.
If people here don't like others with similar traits to them advocating that their life and perspective is not valuable and that they should hate it and wish no-one new experience it, I recommend avoiding this thread - even moreso if you have suicidal tendencies. It was very upsetting for me ;-;, even though I personally have no intent to have kids.
As someone on the spectrum its ridiculous to say there life ruined first off its a spectrum so who knows how server there condition is and they can learn to live with help
Antinatalism is a more deranged branch of eugenics. It's not simply "promoting eugenics" it's a belief that giving birth is the greatest evil one can inflict upon a child and the world at large.
That they'd clearly see us as subhuman isn't surprising given that they at best want our entire species to voluntarily go extinct. Their entire worldview is best summed up as gentle genocide is good.
I think antinatalism is a really interesting philosophy. But it falls apart as soon as you discriminate - It is fair to question the ethics of reproduction, but as soon as you discriminate you end up in eugenics territory. This subreddit is really hostile sadly. there is a lot of ableism under the disguise of antinatalism
The antinatalism subreddit (and similar groups elsewhere) is one of the most toxic places on the internet. It just reeks of hatred, and worse yet, treats that hatred as some sort of virtue.
Go live your life however you want, kids or no. But grouping up to talk shit about children or people who start families is just gross.
I don't have ASD but I have ADHD, and based on my experience I think it's extremely fair to see knowingly inflicting upon another living being a disability that causes great pain and suffering throughout their entire life, as fucked up and immoral
It's like pugs and pitbulls, many people can agree in the thought "why are we intentionally creating more canines with terrible disabilities which badly hurt them for the rest of their life?", so why is it so bad when the same logic is applied to humans?
I think it's dumb to describe it as "eugenics", considering that's a term almost entirely associated in the modern day with Nazism, forced imprisonment/torture/forced sterilization of certain groups, and racist beliefs. Wheras this seems concerned with wanting people to not suffer nearly as much after they're born, so they're expressing how they're upset that people chose to create a new life with more suffering than average when there's tons of equally good alternatives, and I think that's pretty different than flat out promoting genocide...
What's wrong with adoption anyways? It's pretty selfish to bring a new life into this world for your own personal satisfaction when you could literally just take a child who's already out there suffering and make them not suffer for no extra loss.
I find it stupid that they describe it as "ruined lives" though. Especially for the parents, like wtf just be a good parent? It's not like most parents have a kid with no difficult challenges to face whatsoever. When you become a parent you sign up to being exposed to any and every possibility that could come from a kid. If you become a parent and then go "woe is me, I didn't expect autism so I can't deal with this, don't blame me for not parenting correctly" then you shouldn't have become a parent. The only way parents can "ruin" their own lives is if they're a shitty parent, which unfortunately a majority of people are...
I don't know. I hate the fact that I was born autistic. Unlike a lot of autistic people, I refuse to think of it as some kind of 'superpower' or positive thing.
I was born defective. I'm literally a broken human who doesn't function correctly.
I know that I sure as hell wish I wasn't born, and whilst I'm sure those mothers are going to do a great job with their children, I also don't think that I should have children at the risk of passing it down and letting another person suffer the way I have.
I really hate those guys, is ok you don't want kids, don't push it on everyone else.
We have to fix the world one way or another and thruth be told, I think that being so bleak helps nobody.
I definitely understand some of the points made by antinatalism. I often struggle with the fact that life is imposed on me rather then chosen and i am definitely considering geopolitics and ecological/economic when i make choices of how many kids i should have, but i long rationalized most issues to be with human society and not with life itself.
I very much believe society can still evolve but to do so we will need to become better people first, the most straightforward way to get better people is to educate them well starting from birth.
The conclusion of antinatalism seems to be a pessimistic extreme, that life itself can only be suffering so we are better of self-extincting ourself by stopping to make new babies but if all progressives followed this rhetoric then the only people Reproducing are those that do not care at all.
In other words in order for their valid criticisms to have any positive effect on society they should still support progressives that are able to provide to have some amount of kids because or else they become a Selffulfilling prophecy of societal decline.
The bias against neurodivergents having children is sadly enough way more common than just those circles, but people like Greta Thunberg are proof that if anything the world needs more Autism and a not cure.
Now you have ruined three lives forever
Yeah this is the point where I'm really glad other people having kids is not his decision to make. I'm high-functioning enough to pass for neurotypical, but my sense of injustice at this is amped beyond deep-fat-fry, on to 'hot as the sun at its core'
I can't believe the willfull ignorance of people. There are examples of thousands of people with autism becoming amazing people. I feel that reason is impossible for some
I firmly believe most of our problems come from thick cunts like this.
This post makes me so mad. Holy shit. It's Autism, they're lives aren't ruined. I have autism and I'm very glad to be alive. The person that has made this comment spends way too much time on the internet and not enough interacting with people offline.
Antinatalism is a thing that could only thrive on the internet in a community full of people that get fed nothing but bad news all day. Go outside. The world isn't as bad as you think
Quite a few people here on the comments are siding with the antinatalist narrative, but I don't think this is rational at all, in fact it's dangerous. Sure, you can individually opt to not bring more people into the world because you believe it would bring more suffering than happiness, but if this rhetoric spreads, the logical conclusion (heavily extrapolating without considering anything else) is the end of humanity which solves nothing, and while it prevents suffering, it also prevents happiness. If done and advocated in the pretext that we are ruining the planet, that certain people shouldn't be born, and other similar reasoning then this just reeks of ecofascism or plain fascism, and eugenics.
It's easy for us to buy into the narrative that we are all inherently bad and that we as humans are destroying the environment and the world, but this is not true, it's not me and you who are doing this, this is not a human trait, it's a consequence of the system we live in that incentivizes profit above all else. Why do you think awareness, support and accommodations for us needs to be fought over? Because it's expensive and doesn't guarantee profit, and the same can be said about the environment and the way corporations are literally burning the planet. Profit and accumulation of capital above all else, that is the rule.
There's only one way out of this nightmare that will give us the tools to revert the damage and actually build a society and world that will accept us, accommodate to us, liberate people and save the planet, and it's through organizing, studying and fighting.
I am on the autism spectrum. I'm well into middle age.
Being autistic is like being in a poker game where you keep getting dealt hands that are high-card, and everyone else is getting straights, flushes, or even just pairs, and you only get out when you're bankrupt. Yeah, I play the hand I'm dealt, and I'm going to lose every goddamn time.
EDIT: A better analogy is gonna be Pinnochio (or A. I. Artificial Intelligence). I'm never going to be a real boy (any no, it's not because I'm AFAB and also a gender essentialist). No matter how hard I work at being better, there's no good fae that's going to come along and use their fae magic to make me a real boy. I'm never going to have the experiences of the real children, because I'm simply not one of them. I can ape their external characteristics, but I can't be them. While this--being autistic--is a result of evolution (it's likely a non-beneficial genetic mutation), humans have largely evolved to survive as a social species, to have close relationships and tribal affiliations. I'm always going to be on the outside, rather than part of an in-group.
WTF are they talking about? I've known lots of autistic people who lead very normal lives... I suspect the person who wrote this "rant" is either an edgy teenager or a basement dwelling neckbeard who believed himself capable of "curing" one of his lesbian friends
I am difficult at times. So are you people. But I found love and so did or will you too (yes, even you Steffan). The point I’m trying to make is: It doesn’t matter how broken we are, we are more human than this hate filled person ever will be.
Antinatalist here - the rhetoric in that post is horrible, and is not representative of antinatalism as a whole.
Antinatalism isn’t the belief that a certain group shouldn’t reproduce - it’s that nobody should. The world is fucked, and nonconsensually bringing anyone into it is morally reprehensible. It’s not eugenics, it’s voluntary extinctionism.
For the people that have been born, however, everyone deserves respect and equity. Ableism, or any other kind of discrimination, is just wrong, and makes you a shitty person. Just like the person who made that post.
Fuck Reddit
Always amused me to see people posting that shit and then later posting about the Paradox of Tolerance.
Apparently fascists should be lined up against the wall and the autistic kids should be right next to them. If those people got their wish ALL Neuro-Divergent children would cease to exist. "You will be born PURE or you will not be born at all!" seems to be their motto.
It's ironic that the creator of evolution (Charlie Darwie), what I assume the foundational theory of their community, is considered to have been autistic.
Bro Autism is not a death sentence, geez. It's simply a neurodivergency. The world would absolutely be worse off without the ASD community as part of it. And I'm not even speaking poetically here. As someone with hyperactive type ADHD, ASD peers can be an absolute relief to talk to.
Neurotypical folks can be quite frustrating at times. Though they may not realize it, there's a lot of indirect communication between NT folks. They tend to imply what they mean, rather than say what they mean directly. Quite frustrating. My anecdotal experience has led me to believe that the average ADHD or ASD person is a far more effective communicator.
Are they expecting them to test for autism before being used?
If there were more than 10 brain cells amongst the users of that sub, I’d take what they say seriously. But because they’re all complete morons, I don’t really worry too much about what they have to say.
Well, not saying we should interfere with people's life choices but it would've made a thing or two easier for me If my parents didn't have me.
Antinatalism is the prelude to ecofascism.
I'm not saying this is every user, but that sub is rife with women who can't have kids for health reasons, and theyre very angry about it.
Reddit being reddit for whole ass reddit post Getting permaban for getting into an argument with nazis and other totalitarianist was the best thing that happened to me. Outside of r/aspiememes that site is a cesspool
TIL Lesbian couples cause autistic kids?
Autistic people might be too much but we regularly nudge people to do eugenics if they have a chance to birth babies with down syndrome. "Eugenics" is mostly bad but I doubt people would disagree with the prevention of creating babies with huge disabilities. Autistic people are in the gray area imo.
