Both the U.S. and Israel were stunned to experience the ultraviolence they mete out to others.
Both the U.S. and Israel were stunned to experience the ultraviolence they mete out to others.
On the night of September 11, 2001, I sat on the stoop of my apartment building in Greenwich Village and drank some abominable wine coolers with my neighbors. I’d bought them from a nearby store that had already started wild profiteering and was charging three times the normal price. We were two miles north of the site of the World Trade Center; the neighborhood smelled of acrid smoke, which turned out to be preferable to the stench of burnt, rotting bodies that would develop later that week.
Now, according to a plethora of voices, with the vicious recent attacks by Hamas, Israel has experienced its own 9/11. “This is our 9/11,” says the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations. “This is our 9/11,” says the Israeli military’s spokesperson. “This is the equivalent for Israel of probably what happened in the United States in September 11th,” says Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis. “Israeli Faces Its 9/11,” says the Wall Street Journal op-ed page. If you’d like to see 37,000 more examples, have at it.
The point of all these comparisons is obvious. Former Rep. Joe Walsh expressed it here:
Yesterday was Israel’s 9/11.
And remember, after 9/11, nobody told the United States not to retaliate, nobody called for a “ceasefire” or a “de-escalation,” nobody “both-sided” what had happened that horrible day.
In other words, Israel, like the U.S., had been innocently walking through the world when SUDDENLY, OUT OF NOWHERE, it was inexplicably attacked by inhuman barbarians. Therefore Israel, like the U.S. was, is entitled to do anything whatsoever in response. A recent estimate found that the U.S. war on terror has directly and indirectly caused over 4.5 million deaths.
I don’t agree with Walsh’s conclusion. But certainly everyone here is starting from the correct premise — that this is Israel’s 9/11 — even if they don’t understand why.
First of all, something like Hamas’s attack on Israel, as with something like 9/11, was going to happen eventually. Israel and the U.S. constantly deal out ultraviolence on a smaller scale (Israel) and a huge scale (the U.S.). Anyone in either country who believed this would never come home was living in a vain fantasy.
Likewise, the establishments of both Israel and the U.S. were well aware of this: that their policies would inevitably lead to the deaths of their own citizens. Richard Shultz, a longtime national security state intellectual, wrote in 2004 that “a very senior [Special Operations Forces] officer who had served on the Joint Staff in the 1990s told me that more than once he heard terrorist strikes characterized as ‘a small price to pay for being a superpower.’” Eran Etzion, onetime member of Israel’s national security council, just explained that from the government’s perspective, “the relatively small price that Israel paid every so often” for its policy toward Gaza was the deaths of dozens of Israelis.
What stunned both the U.S. and Israel was that anyone managed to briefly deal out damage on a scale they’re used to delivering. Israel killed over 10,000 Palestinians from 2000 through last month. God only knows how many hundreds of thousands the U.S. killed in the Middle East in the lead-up to 9/11.
Then, as now, anyone pointing out these obvious facts was smeared as “supporting” or “justifying” the vicious blowback. It’s frustrating and suggests that it’s impossible for human beings to be rational about this subject. If you tell someone that pouring gas on a pile of shredded newspaper and then throwing a match on it will probably make the newspaper catch on fire, you are not “supporting fire” or “justifying fire.” On the contrary, you’re trying to reduce the amount of fire in the world by describing reality.
Another similarity is that both Israel and the U.S. generated their own enemies. The U.S. famously nurtured fundamentalist Islamic opposition to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan during the 1980s. Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Jimmy Carter’s national security adviser, said in a 1998 interview that this had been “an excellent idea” and he had no regrets about these “stirred-up Muslims.” Israel did essentially the same thing in miniature in the occupied territories, encouraging the growth of Hamas to damage the secular Fatah. “Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” according to one of the Israelis who worked on this clever project.
As with 9/11, the attacks on Israel could only have succeeded on the scale they did because of the monstrous incompetence of the relevant leaders. “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.,” the CIA told George W. Bush in August 2001. Bush ignored this. Dick Cheney actually pushed back at the intelligence world’s many warnings because he believed Al Qaeda was merely feinting and trying to get the U.S. to expend resources preventing something that would never happen. Likewise, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was apparently warned by Egypt that something bad was coming but ignored it. We’ll inevitably learn shocking details soon about Netanyahu’s general indifference to what was on the horizon.
This is all of a piece with the irrelevance of citizens’ lives to leaders like Netanyahu and Bush. They gnash their teeth and rend their garments about how enraged they are by attacks by foreigners, yet in their hearts they don’t care about us at all. Immediately after 9/11, the Bush administration falsely told New Yorkers that the city air was perfectly safe to breathe.
Finally, the revenge that Israel will now exact will be hideous, as was that taken by the U.S. There is nothing on earth like the fury of the powerful when they believe they have been defied by their inferiors.
This is something my neighbors and I agreed on as we drank those awful wine coolers on 9/11. We were frightened deep in our guts by what had happened that morning. For anyone who wasn’t in New York then, let me tell you — Al Qaeda truly put the terror back in terrorism. But what we were most scared of was what our own government was about to do next. Ever since that moment, my dream has been that someday the regular people of the world — all of us, on every “side” — will form an alliance against our grotesque leaders.
The states didn't wipe Saudi Arabia off the map when 9/11 happened. And we hadn't really talked about wiping Saudi Arabia off the map for decades, sent in colonists to steal land or regularly executed Saudi citizens.
The states responded with a largely humiliating show of force in the wrong countries, took ten years to achieve their stated goals and shamefully admitted at various times to an awful amount of civilian casualties that were supposed to be avoided as much as possible while dismantling al Qaeda and capturing bin Laden.
The Israeli defense minister is currently explaining publicly how Palestinians are animals and Israel is acting accordingly by withholding electricity, food, water, fuel from civilians while they indiscriminately attack civilian and military targets.
So the outrage following an attack is comparable though unequal, but the history, context and intention is not at all comparable and making the parallel to 9/11 is a mistake, or(more likely) a jingoistic attempt to trick Americans into supporting a rapidly concluding genocide.
parallel to 9/11 is a mistake, or(more likely) a jingoistic attempt to trick Americans into supporting a rapidly concluding genocide.
I took the exact opposite conclusion from the article. It seems to be a condemnation of the US's actions in the wake of 9/11, and thus also a condemnation of the actions the author believes Israel are about to take in the wake of the Hamas attack.
Shaking your head and saying "hey look violence is violence, and it's all terrible", is a false equivalence of devastating military action versus deliberate, persistent genocide.
The conclusion pushed by this article makes genocide easier to swallow. Israel is not "about to take" any actions it has not already pursued against the Palestinians for fifty years, they just have more support now, and Israel is committing these military actions against Palestinians civilian and military targets alike because, as the defense minister says, Palestinians are "animals".
And many people and organizations rightfully protested the Iraq invasion. The French refusing to get into that part of the mess is how some idiots come up with the "freedom fries".
I remember vividly thinking the US going all out into Afghanistan in retaliation was probably exactly what the terrorists wanted.
I'm certain this applies to the current situation as well. Hamas is hoping to provoke Israel into going full throttle against and into Gaza with the intention of triggering a wider Jihad.
Good point, this brings up another glaring contract:
Following 9/11, there were many countries urging caution and prudent judgment, advising against thee invasion of Iraq, as well as mass public protests.
Here, most international peers, media outlets and public voices are supporting the genocide and even lending aid to Israel.
The states didn't wipe Saudi Arabia off the map when 9/11 happened.
It's wild, every time I try to play this alternate scenario out in my mind, the world always ends up being this insanely blissful utopia with flying cars and unlimited pizza rolls for everyone.
But aren’t you agreeing with the article? The USA attacked Afghanistan, which housed Usama bin Laden, who was a Saudi and was funded and supported by saudis
The Israelis are attacking Palestine, which houses hamas, which is Iranian (suspected to have Iranian members and soldiers), and is funded and supplied and intellectually descended from Iran
Reductively, yes, there were attacks and governments are using them to achieve their ulterior aims.
If you are zooming that far out, then almost every major terrorist attack is a 9/11.
Every historical factor, detail and circumstance pushes the two events further apart, and you can only equate what is now happening with 9/11 from an American-centric perspective.
My main issue is that the conclusion of that article, for all its apparent aversion to violence and decrying of hawkish militaries, concludes with the imprecise judgment that just like the US, Israel will do terrible things for revenge, equating US military policies expressly stated to avoid civilian casualties with the ramping up of a 50 year genocide by Israel expressly indiscriminate in its military attacks and explicitly punishing Palestinian civilians and withholding food and water because the israelis see Palestinians as animals.
No, as broadly pretty and evidently sympathetic as the article is until the end, equating the US 9/11 military response to the latest chapter of a historied, explicit genocide is irresponsible and promotes "justified" genocide to every reader.
It's an inaccurate, irresponsible comparison that conflates military action with persistent civilian genocide.
You don't have to "prevent Israel from doing what the US did after 9/11" because they are entirely different situations undertaken with entirely different motivations and behaviors.
The US did not seek to punish civilians.
Israel is seeking to punish civilians.
The US pursued military targets with the directive to avoid civilian casualties as much as possible.
Israel is purposefully punishing Palestinian "human animals" by blockading food, water, and energy to civilians after 50 years of imperialism and attacking civilians.
making the parallel to 9/11 is a mistake, or(more likely) a jingoistic attempt to trick Americans into supporting a rapidly concluding genocide.
Or its just a headline designed to attract attention. I think it is largely an accurate comparison but it is designed to pigeonhole readers into looking at it the same way they view 9/11. I think a lot of people would interpret a 9/11 like event as being a good enough reason to escalate, but I disagree with that because of the result of 9/11. A bunch of senseless suffering for everyone involved except the weapons manufacturers.
Man, so few civillians died in there compared to all the civillians that die in the wars that US wage abroad, and it sure helped fund the US war machine for decades. As the article stated, this is like 9/11, a lucky event for the government that doesn't give a shit about its people to justify more war against "the enemy".
Definitely clickbait(aka a jingoistic attempt blah blah blah). I don't think the writer has to deliberately be misleading people, but whether the writer is or is not self-aware, revisionist history that encourages folks to empathize with genocide can fuck right off.
If a walled off section of the United States that belonged to the free Mexican fighters had been behind 9/11 we would have done the exact same thing. The distance to get our troops mobilized delayed our reaction but we were frothing at the mouth and within hours of those attacks we were laying the ground work for the invasions.
As you stated, we invaded 2 countries and killed over 150 thousand people to satisfy our blood lust. I’m not at all shocked or surprised by the Israelis here.
Certainly if the situation was different and the history was different and the countries were different this may be similar to 9/11.
Your misattribution to me of your own incorrectly paraphrased words and sentiments blatantly ignores the civilian target distinction: the US expressly labored to destroy al qaeda and capture bin Laden as a direct military response to a terrorist attack. Israel, in light of a terrorist attack, is continuing 50 years of persistent genocide against Palestinians, has labeled Palestinians animals and are denying food, water, electricity and fuel to the civilian population as explicitly stated retribution.
After fifty years, I don't think anyone is shocked or surprised.
I agree with most of your point, but the 9/11 attacks came from Afghanistan, even if Saudi nationals were involved.
I still believe the USA was right in supporting the Mujahideen against the Soviets and invading Afghanistan after 2001. Harboring terrorists is not how you repay those who aid you in your fight for freedom. The USA didn't bomb Paris in 1801 for helping them in 1776.
What happened in Afghanistan after the Soviets left is that Al-Qaeda came in to help the Taliban gain absolute control over the other factions of the Mujahideen and for helping them in that civil war, they offered refuge.
The USA didn't commit large scale war crimes against Afghanistan or oppress them prior to 9/11.
The conduct of Israel is vastly different than that of the USA. That doesn't justify America's wrong doings, of which there are many, but the current day USA is simply not an apartheid state.
And making that false equivalence also muddies the waters in the west, and ultimately leads to the oppression of Palestinians because it makes westerners indifferent towards holding Israel accountable.
Bro its like 9/11 bro, its like Pearl Harbor bro, please let me activate your patriotic overrides to common sense so we can justify the incoming slaughter of palestinian civilians
If you tell someone that pouring gas on a pile of shredded newspaper and then throwing a match on it will probably make the newspaper catch on fire, you are not “supporting fire” or “justifying fire.” On the contrary, you’re trying to reduce the amount of fire in the world by describing reality.
That's literally the entire point of the full article - that actions have reactions and that the people taking poor actions do so while aware of and ignoring the inevitable reactions they will cause on their own people.
What an ignorant fucking take. You herd human beings into the largest prison system on earth and keep them there for 60 years, what do you expect to happen?
Israel loves that this happened, because it gives them the blank check they've been seeking to make Palestinians extinct.
Why do you use the same rhetoric and say that "Israel" loves this. Why demonize a whole country? If you believe that not all Palestines are Hamas terrorists it should be clear that not all Israelis stand behind the current government and settlement plans. (do I need to remind you of the big demonstrations in the near past?)
That's literally the point that they're making. 9/11 was blowback from the US wars abroad.
This is Israel's 9/11 because it was inevitable to happen due to their ceaseless military occupation and committing war crimes.
Just like 9/11, the world could sit back and watch as the oppressor responds with more war crimes, or speak up and remind peoeple what happened after thr US 9/11, and prevent Israel from going down the same path.