2w ago

Police could search homes and phones after pregnancy loss | The Observer

observer.co.uk

Police have been issued guidance on how to search women’s homes for abortion drugs and check their phones for menstrual cycle tracking apps after unexpected pregnancy loss.
New guidance from the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) on “child death investigation” advises officers to search for “drugs that can terminate pregnancy” in cases involving stillbirths. The NPCC, which sets strategic direction for policing across the country UK, also suggests a woman’s digital devices could be seized to help investigators “establish a woman’s knowledge and intention in relation to the pregnancy”. That could include checking a woman’s internet searches, messages to friends and family, and health apps, “such as menstrual cycle and fertility trackers”, it states.
Details are also provided for how police could bypass legal requirements for a court order to obtain medical records about a woman’s abortion from NHS providers.

22 comments

That's ridiculous

Bloody hell, did we magoc ourselves across the pond somehow?
- Apparently this is based on a law from 1861, so it's about as British as you can get.
  
  It hasn't been updated since to allow for "voluntary" abortions either. It's just "de facto" allowed under the reasoning of "mother's mental health".
  
  The 1861 law would never apply to a modern woman receiving an abortion.
  As in relation to abortion it is very much overwritten by the 1967 law they give more detail on. No one recieving an illegal abortion would be breaking that law.
  But the person doing the task with out medical supervision would be covered under that law. As the 1967 law only overrides it for the patient (by covering receiving with or without medical supervision. And before or sfter 24 weeks.
  But it only gives rules as to when a medical supervisor may act. Not the crime of a non supervised practitioner. As that was already covered.
  Self medication. While not thinking of pills. Was covered under the 1967 law. Media used the slang coat hanger to include low dose poison use. So self treatment was very much an issue when the law was created.
  Edit. More funny is the idea 1861 laws are typically British. You realise most of the US constitution is older then that. But still applied up till Nov 2024 when trump seems to be totally ignoring it.

I'm sure the 'protect women' lot will now fight the UK's regressive abortion laws as hard as they've campaigned against trans people.
But it is seriously fucked up that we don't afford women their bodily autonomy here. Hopefully that abortion decimalisation that Labour MPs are reported to be pushing goes somewhere.

Write to your MP. Get the law changed. Lemmy isn't going to help.
- Find your MP
  
  Ahh fuck me. Lemmy did help 😜.
  That's a great resource. Bookmarked. Thanks.

Isn't abortion legal in the UK?
Having said that, fuck all of this with an umbrella
- It is legal, but under specific conditions. Better than it could be, not as good as it should be.
  
  The abortion law in the UK is already more liberal than it needs to be
  
  Not the guy you are responding to but.
  
  Details are also provided for how police could bypass legal requirements for a court order to obtain medical records about a woman’s abortion from NHS providers.
  That is Def not legal. And the NHS having done the abortion means it is a legal abortion. Or it is the NHS that is being investigated not the recipient.
  This seems like a very strange document even ignoring the pure bullying investigating victims of still births involves.
  Advice to police how to bypass legal requirements on private medical data. None of the phone tracking app advice applies to weather the still birth was an illegal abortion. Just if it happened.
  This whole incident seems more like some anti abortion advocates trying to focus police on terrorising\victimise women with no indication a crime has actually happened.

WTF? This is like the American South. The bourgeois are so afraid of their "falling birth rates".

Hey, UK, you doing ok?

The lead authors were Ch Supt Liz Hughes of Avon and Somerset police force; Det Supt Jon Holmes of Lancashire; DCS David Ashton of Durham; Ch Supt Fiona Bitters of Hampshire and Isle of Wight; Sonya Baylis, of the National Crime Agency; and DS Robert Simmons of Suffolk.
Women’s Health advocates, all
- I have to wonder why the NPCC is sending this.
  As far as I understand it. Abortion is only illegal if done without NHS help. And while I'm old. So have not had any involvement with someone going through this since the mid 90s.
  That experience indicated that getting NHS help was not complex. Def easier then the choice or getting the RX drugs is without such support.
  Have things changed since the 90s as far as getting support. So more are seeking other options.

This could do with a bit more detail. Either it has none or it's not being reported.
There is a big difference between the police showing up when a woman loses her baby at eight months after neighbours heard a fight and the police showing up at 8 weeks when a family is deep in grief after a miscarriage.
- This clearly doesn’t follow the “fight” scenario though, it’s specifically about searching for evidence for an illegal abortion planned by the pregnant woman herself in secret eg via drugs.
  I suppose it’s possible they left out the crucial detail that the document starts with “for the love of god do not follow these instructions unless you already have extraordinary evidence”, but I’m willing to give the reporters some small trust that they’d mention something so important, and I can’t see any justification for this document to exist without such a clearly defined limitation.
  
  It would make sense if someone was openly talking about getting an illegal abortion. But I don't think it should happen after every miscarriage/stillbirth

This def seems like an odd document.
Under current laws. It sounds reasonable up to the point unexpected still births may suggest looking for abortion drugs.
Seems like bullying. But not odd to suggest police may need to check given the current laws.
But all the advice about using phone tracking apps etc provide no evidence or indication of a crime. Only the events that apparently caused the need to investigate. So seem totally irrelevant unless someone involved is trying to vicimised women.
Added to.
Details are also provided for how police could bypass legal requirements for a court order to obtain medical records about a woman’s abortion from NHS providers.
Basically telling the police to gain evidence any lawyer can easily throw out due to its methods of being obtained. While also by very definition suggesting the police avoid their legal requirements.
Not to mention an abortion done by the NHS is by definition one done under medical supervision. And under the 1961 act. Something the medical authorities etc. If illegal would be responsible for investigation of. Not the police.
It is hard to see any reason this would be sent out. Other then by anti abortion activists to help agreeing officers victimise women.

22 comments