My friend on social refuses to see how this is a pyramid scheme
My friend on social refuses to see how this is a pyramid scheme
Or by her participating that she is knowingly involving herself in a scam. Which, yeah, it's just books - but it's pretty obviously a pyramid.
No shame if you don't see how it's a scam, the cozy blanket and glass of wine are meant to throw you, and they chose 36 because it's a confusing enough number where you don't think too much about how it grows.
She gives one book to her upline. She then sends out post to 36 more people to give her 36 books. Each one of them then needs to find 36 people each, which is now 1296 people in that level if they each want 36 books. Thus the exponential pyramid. Of course there is zero way each of them will find that many people, let alone the levels below that. It's a scam that benefits those higher up, and the ones lower will likely not receive anything.
Of course she sees nothing wrong with that. She said "Sometimes I get books, sometimes I don't, that's just part of the game". Which... it's not a game when it's real money being passed around.
On top of that, whenever we see a pyramid scheme we should be stamping it out - hard. Folks, please spot the signs and point them out. Don't be afraid to comment on posts calling them out as scams.
Edit: To be clear the idea of a growing book exchange isn't a bad one, as explained in the comments though the way to make it not a scam is to make it 1:1. You either send a book and receive a book, or if they like the 36 number, you change it to "I'll send a book to whoever sends me a book!". Then it's a true book exchange.
At some point I feel it is just easier to go to the library. You need to return the books but they are also not random books the sender didn't want.
not only that, but if you chat up the librarians, they can usually turn you onto new books you'll enjoy. I've... been steered wrong like twice. And then it was a 'well you're either gonna love it or not, so, try it and tell me.' kind of thing.
also, take a look at all the other stuff the libraries are doing.... (well, my local library is phenomenal.)
I get that everyone is looking for a scam angle here but have we ever stopped to consider just regular old human stupidity? This sounds like something one of my co workers would come up with.
As with most things, I'm betting on the people who made it knew it exactly, and a lot of other stupid people jumped at the idea.
If they wanted me to read about their scam, they shouldn't describe it over a stressful image of red wine and an open flame resting on a 1x6 on a beige couch.
I scrolled back up and was immediately overwhelmed with anxiety
I'm just waiting for the cat to jump up on it and screw up everything.
Why do people even buy furniture like that? Do they think it's going to be immune from stains?
Upholstery covers with different colors and fabrics exist. Washable covers exist. My great grandma has a turn of the century sitting room set with colorful covers for each piece that matches the seasons. My own couch is a cream color with washable covers. Scotch guard also exists. Stain removers even exist and they do work (especially carpet cleaners).
If you get a book back, it's not a scam because it's not designed for you to profit, either monetarily or materially. It's obviously misleading saying you'll get "up to" 36 books back, but that's not guaranteed and shouldn't be expected. If someone joined such an exchange (and it was trustworthy), they should think of it as a random book swap and expect to get a surprise book back in exchange for theirs. Anything extra is simply a bonus.
1 for 1: no one gets rich, and no one gets scammed, in theory...
Yeah it's very simple if you send one and get one back it's just a trade. If you send one and get more than one it's a piramide scheme.
It's not terrible or anything, but at some point (the bottom) of the piramide a lot a people end up without any books, no way around that.
This is a bizarre scheme, i would not want to receive 1296 books, let alone however many the top gets.
You don't. You just get the "up to 36". It's not a pyramid scheme where the goods all flow to the top.
I have this great angle for stocking my new bookstore...
While the authenticity of this is dubious, I don't think OP knows what a pyramid scheme is...
Look up MLM (Multi-Level Marketing) schemes if you need a reference point.
It's a pyramid scheme that doesn't appear to involve money.
An MLM for books would be charging for the books and an enrollment fee. Typically in a pyramid scheme the buy-in is the fee and nothing ever comes back to the enrollee that isn't enrollment fees from others.
In this case the books are the enrollment fee.
Just because the stakes are low doesn't mean it's not a pyramid scheme. You buy in, and then you recruit others to buy in by paying you. Pyramid.
Now, if it was a ping that said "send me a book and I'll send you one back!" That would be a fun way to do a book exchange. But it's not, there's no reciprocation.
You just know the 36 books you are going to get will be hotel bibles.
It's a twofold scam.
One, because the person is buying new, it's driving up sales to a bunch of "confirmed" addresses, which is an important metric for Amazon sales.
Two, the "random" destination is a second customer's address, and the friend is being an unwitting proxy in a drop shipping scheme.
It's a mild scam. More like chain letters used to be than Amway or something with a structure putting a bunch of wealth in the hands of one person. But, you're right. It's stupid, even if mostly harmless.
As someone else said, it may be to see who's likely to fall for more sinister scams, or a phishing scam to get people's addresses etc
There is an large electronic store near me. At the cash register they have "mystery boxes" where you can buy random shit that you don't know what you get, ranging from 10 to idk, 500 dollars. I always imagine every time someone buys irl lootcrates, they end up on some sort of list, because these people would buy anything.
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This is what I was thinking at first. This just looks like classic chain letter.
But on rereading, it appears that the person at the top is controlling who's sending books to who, and might even be dictating where you buy the book from, which is definitely a scam.
My guess on how this works. Upon DMing the person in control, you're instructed to buy a book from a specific website (that they control) and have the book shipped directly from there to the "stranger.". However, "stranger" doesn't actually exist, no books are ever sent, and the person running this whole scam is just pocketing the money rubes spend on "books".
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It's a scam that benefits those higher up, and the ones lower will likely not receive anything.
Who is higher up? Who benefits from you buying 1 book to send to a random person and how? Maybe I don't even buy a new one; I just send out an old one I already had. Or is there more to it than the image shows and you're supposed to be buying a book from a specific supplier?
This seems more like a "pay it forward" gift exchange than a scam.
Pay it forward would be fine if it was 1-1, you gift a book to one person and you get one in return. The scam is that you get people in thinking if they gift one they'll get more than one back. Of course they probably won't, it'll quickly collapse.
I seen stuff like this before, and I think I know how it's supposed to work.
The "stranger" recruited the person who posted this to OP's friend as one of 6 people. Each of those 6 people recruit 6 others, who send the books to the stranger (their friend's friend), hence the 36. OP's friend will be asked to recruit 6 people in turn, and each of those recruit 6, who then send books to OP's friend.
I think it's a bit dodgy that they're being asked to buy new, but I'd be more concerned that these kind of schemes can be used to feel out who's likely to fall for more sinister scams, as people feel they're getting a lot back for very little.
Plus, it only takes a few levels (13 if my maths is right) before there are more (far more!) recruits needed than people on earth.
It's a chain letter.
Your math is correct.
How is money being made in this? I don’t get it. It’s books- not money.
Just get in the moment
Plot twist: The founder of this pyramid-shaped scheme is Jeff Bezos, since he'll profit from every book sold regardless of where it ends up.
I kinda like this idea; on a one-to-one basis where the maths works out that is.
The idea of an anonymous book exchange is fun - but the way to do it fairly and not as a scam would be to say "whoever sends me a book I'll send one back!". That would remove the pyramid from the equation, everyone would be guaranteed a book back for everyone they sent.
At that point I'd say it would be easier to start a book club, and instead of following some dooha's list from up-on-high, the members just share their favorites.
Oh this gave me a nice nostalgia hit! Back in the late 60s I think it was, there was a similar scheme where you sent a dollar to the address at the top of a list of ten names, added your name to the bottom of the list and sent the list to ten other people. There were various other chain letter things going around, threatening a curse if you didn't pass them on, but this was a specific cash one. I had quite an argument with the idiot who sent it to me - he said the chain wouldn't work if I broke it. You were supposed to end up with hundreds of dollars.
That's a pyramid scheme
Yes, my friend did several of those in the early 90s. He mailed many dollars. Never did he get a dollar.
I think that's more of a ponzi scheme that a pyramid scheme
How so?
This can be a marketing/scam strategy, you send a new book, and they send their marketed(marketing) or old (scam) book to your supposed secret friend, then re-sell your new book.
Isn't https://www.paperbackswap.com/ still a thing?
There was a bookstore in my town growing up that allowed romance novel readers to do a book swap. I'm not sure why since it didn't make them any money.
To get people in the door or talking about the store. Free advertising from a group of readers who are more likely to buy the next and the next and the next in a series of books. Even if you're making one sale instead of two, it's still a sale. And you're more likely to make more than one sale if they buy more than one book (which is likely).
I think I'm confused. She's not giving one book to her upline she's sending it to some random. Then the 36 books are from strangers that she hasn't put any work into finding according to the post. That's not a pyramid scheme... If anything the original person who posted the picture is just doing a whole bunch of coordinating and work but your friend isn't. There are either details missing you haven't shared that contradict what this picture says or you are reading this wrong.
"random" = upline
If everyone is giving just one book, how can get up to 36 books maximum. Technically, 0 books received still counts under "36 books maximum"
I think the only issue is this person not realising if you have 36 people buying 1 book and sending it, 36 people are not getting 36 books. They’re all getting one. Though, it could be a ring where you read then send, so you eventually cycle through to all 36. Issue there is reading speed varies so one person will end up a bottleneck but I mean yeah.
Either way, at this point just make a book club or go get friendly with your local librarian (I mean talk with them you perverts) and they can usually suggest books you would like but may not have chosen for yourself.
Edit: I understand it’s probably supposed to be a pyramid scheme but nowhere is it said in the picture you’re supposed to get other people to send you books and etc, just hey I’ll give you an address to send a book and you’re get a book(or 36).
Of course there is zero way each of them will find that many people, let alone the levels below that. It’s a scam that benefits those higher up, and the ones lower will likely not receive anything.
And part of the scam is to tell people that there's still time to be one of the early higher ups scamming other people!
You might have to literally draw it out. Just use 2 books instead of 36.
It could be a pyramid scheme, or not written well.
I think your friend probably understands it as "I send book to stranger, I recieve book from stranger" but it's actually meant as "I send book to stranger, OP recieves book from stranger"
That wouldn't explain how you would get more books than you give. Hence, pyramid scheme.
Exactly. This isn't send a book get a book, it's send a book and get more to send you books. The wording of the image is meant to encourage you to join by receiving more than you put in.
I ended up buying someone 36 books myself, to compensate them for me refusing to participate in this chain letter/pyramid scheme.
This is a bizarre scheme, i would not want to receive 1296 books, let alone however many the top gets.
So its the publisher reaping all of the $$? Peddling pirated books? 36 must be some of break even point for the lower levels but who knows
To me, the 36 just seems like a semi-plausible number that's both enough to be enticing and not so much to be daunting or discrediting. I don't think there's any real foundation in the logistics of the scheme, it's simply a marketing decision.
As far as pyramid schemes go, this one seems fairly harmless.
But the point is: you need to be able to identify pyramid schemes. If you identify it and are aware of what it is, and still want to participate - thats "fine", but OP is talking about removing ignorance.
Stakes may be low, but the people who fall for the low stakes ones may not know the signs for when they're presented with high stakes ones. I think it's important to call them out every time to teach the signs.
How the hell is this a pyramid scheme? Do you people have brain damage? Or is just that the average lemming is in middle school? Buy book, send book, receive book. No money or promises of wealth involved. It says "a maximum of" meaning that you may get more than one, I guess, if someone wanted to buy more copies than was asked of them. Shitty math doesn't equal a pyramid scheme in the same way lying doesn't equal "gaslighting."
Pyramid scheme, not profit scheme.
Pyramid because the shape is a pyramid.
The first person, the one who sent out the original picture, received X books and sent none.
The next layer sent one book, and possibly received up to 36.
But those 36 each need 36 new people. It's impossible. You'd hit the population of the earth in just a few rounds.
You send book to one person. You ask many people to send you a book so you get many books. Each of those people, to get the same deal, have to then find many people each themselves to not lose anything. The reason it's a pyramid is because the last people to ask will receive nothing, they will be the bottom of the pyramid.
It's not "shitty math", it's just math. There is no guarantee that by you sending a book you will also receive a book. The wording is misleading, it is not "Maximum 36", it's "Maybe you get one back, but probably not".
That's the scam part - you encourage someone to join in on the premises that you are going to get things if they buy in, and if they do it they can too! Except more than likely they won't be able to, and all they did was give you a free book.
