Controllers are good for FPS games, especially on PC, and we have to stop pretending like they’re not
Controllers are good for FPS games, especially on PC, and we have to stop pretending like they’re not
Every time someone brings up a controller vs mouse and keyboard, most of if not all comments will push towards the OP to “switch to mouse and keyboard” because “it’s better!”
In my eyes, the person is already accustomed to controller, they’re used to the sensitivity, and if not it’s a quick change.
If they’re going to get used to mouse and keyboard they need to:
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find a reasonable mouse
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find a reasonable mousepad for their situation
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find out if they’re a wrist aimer or an arm aimer
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make sure their windows mouse sensitivity is set to 6/11 for some reason otherwise everything else will be messed up
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find their “optimal sensitivity” many of which tutorials are (subjectively) hard to find (the good ones)
I’m both a controller and mouse and keyboard user but I find it easier to aim with a controller. It feels natural.
Yeah, now try without any Aim Assist.
There sometimes is a gyroscope aim that allows for better precision without the assist. Still aiming with a gamepad is pain, just a bit less if everything is set up perfectly (which is rarely the case)
I can’t stand gyro aim so I can’t speak for that
I love gyro aiming. Comfort and accuracy, plenty accurate enough for single player and coop games.
Yeah the only time I tried that was with Zelda:OoT on the 3DS I think. It worked pretty well if I remember correctly.
Or even better, any cheat mod. Mods are cool if they add to gameplay. But a real player doesn’t need any mods like aim assist, see through walls etc.
If you can’t play without a cheat mod, then you aren’t playing, you’re just being a dick.
Sorry I'm not sure I follow you here. Why are you talking about cheats?
Is this about "PC gamers" using cheat tools in online games? Because there will always be cheaters and the platform/controllers used have nothing to do with it. If people on consoles could use cheat tools, there would be some that do.
Why. Why can't people just have fun as their goal here.
Based on OPs post, I think it's fair to assume that they aren't even aware that console games bake-in auto aim. Most console players in general are unaware of that fact.
Nobody is saying don't have fun, or don't do what you want. But a lot of times unpopular opinions are unpopular because they're built on a poor grasp of the topic matter.
In the same way I'll educate someone on how tax brackets work when they say "my boss told me I'm better off not getting a raise because it'll bump me into the next tax bracket", I wouldn't expect people to just nod and smile when they demonstrate a similarly poor grasp of game input devices.
Having fun IS the goal, but the discussion here is about controller vs KB/M for FPS games. Yes of course you can have fun with both, but let's not pretend that controllers are as good as KB/M in shooter games because it's just not true. They are slower, not as precise and require aiming assistance in order to compete with KB/M in multiplayer games.
That is truly an unpopular opinion. It's also wrong so that's probably why. /s
This sub is so weird. When someone posts an actual unpopular opinion it's clearly getting downvoted because this has a vote score of just 5 with over 60 comments. What are we looking for here?
Why the /s?
I’m both a controller and mouse and keyboard user but I find it easier to aim with a controller. It feels natural.
This is fine. You can have a preference. The rest of your post, however, is objectively incorrect, or at best misleading.
For example, in order for me, a keyboard and mouse user, to get used to a controller, I would need to:
- Find a reasonable controller
- Find out how I can best grip the controller for my use case
- Make sure the game's controller sensitivity is set correctly for my use case
See how that's basically the same arguments you are making against using a K&M?
Also, there have been FPS competitions where people with controllers go absolutely demolished by K&M players. When it comes to competitive FPS gaming, K&M has large advantages over controllers. Even some single-player console FPS games have enabled auto-aim by default, and left the setting disabled by default on PC for K&M players, because using a controller is more difficult than a K&M for FPS.
Even some single-player console FPS games have enabled auto-aim by default, and left the setting disabled by default on PC for K&M players, because using a controller is more difficult than a K&M for FPS.
Single player games often have auto-aim when you aim down sight and have multiplayer games have Aim Assist. In COD/Warzone, controller players have an advantage over KB/M due to how strong the aim assist is.
Controllers aren't good for FPS, they need a handicap.
Mate, chill out. OP said ""If people are used to a controller, they should use that, rather than trying to find a k&m setup that suits them."
You said "Oh my god, why, then, should I try to find a controller setup that suits me?!?"
I mean, c'mon
Okay but you don’t need to be competitive to have fun. The basics for controller is if you’re on PlayStation, get a dual sense. Xbox, Xbox controller. Switch, pro controller. Going through the sensitivities for controller is a hell of a lot simpler than going through sensitivities for keyboard and mouse.
The barrier of entry is far lower for controller than it is for keyboard and mouse. If you can’t figure out you need a basic controller for your console, especially considering most times consoles come with controllers anyway, I don’t know what to tell you.
You can’t tell me it’s “objectively wrong” then list inconsistencies like that.
Not to pry, but "having fun" is subjective and therefore there is nothing "wrong". It is up to the subject to decide or feel that something fun is happening.
You are "subjectively right" but you are also "objectively wrong".
A clear reason is that Aim Assist was implemented to make the player have fun. K&M do not need this support because you can aim very accurately without previous training.
The barrier of entry, as you call it, is reduced artificially for the controller.
But alas, do what is fun for you. There is nothing to prove to anyone in single player games. I play third person (Souls games) games with controller and FPS (Cyberpunk mainly) with k&m.
People play games with dance pads, or with their feet, or with Guitar Hero instruments, and they have fun doing it, but that doesn't mean it's efficient, or optimal, or that those control schemes are "good" for the games they're using. If your argument is "Controllers are adequate for FPS games", sure - I don't think anyone is refuting that point, but that's not the argument you made - you stated that controllers are good for FPS games, which is a pretty subjective word, but clearly you posted in the right place, because as you can see from all of the replies here, it's a very unpopular opinion.
Clearly people can play FPS games with controllers. It is an option a lot of people use. However, it's just the case that an equally skilled player on a controller will lose to a similarly skilled player on M+K. There've been numerous attempts at scientific tests to prove this. Here's one such example. There's an anecdote that years ago, Microsoft was considering offering cross-platform multiplayer between PC and Xbox, but scrapped the idea when it was discovered that very skilled Halo players using a controller were losing to objectively less skilled players using mouse + keyboard.
The title of your post begins as "Controllers are good for FPS games, especially on PC".
Now it's about having fun and a lower barrier of entry, not competitiveness.
It's fine you prefer controller, but you're moving the goalposts here. The title and body of your initial post isn't about having fun, it's about what is "good for fps games." K&M is, I'm sorry to tell you, objectively better in that sense.
Side note, as for your "lower barrier of entry" for a controller part, you also specified from the beginning, "especially on PC". If you're playing on PC specifically, you already have a K&M. A controller is not a lower barrier of entry on that platform, it's an additional purchase vs. something everyone on that platform would already own.
You're using a list of inconsistencies to deny why you are "objectively wrong".
For single player games, sure. For multiplayer games, you will get absolutely wiped by KB+M players and that will not be fun for you.
Also, if I'm using non standard controls (which for a PC FPS, would include controllers) and I'm getting smoked by people with standard controls no matter how much I get used to them, then my controls are bad.
Going through the sensitivities for controller is a hell of a lot simpler than going through sensitivities for keyboard and mouse.
Crank it to max, then dial it back until your shots start to land
What inconsistency did I list?
Changing a sensitivity on a mouse is easier than on a controller and generally allows a more fine tuned setting.
The process of even changing sensitivity is easier, menu navigation on a mouse is simpler, then once at the sensitivity option, I can just type in a number or quickly drag a bar instead of waiting for a number to climb higher or lower. Hell, if the game has a console, I can usually just open that and type in any number I want on the fly.
I mean its objectively incorrect, but having a personal preference is fine.
Games normally give a lot of auto aim these days, so if you want an easier time it makes sense you would prefer a controller.
This guy has a computer but somehow doesnt own a mouse or mousepad yet.
Right? Any kb+mouse will be better than a controller.
When people say mouse and keyboard is "better" than controller, they just mean that the skill ceiling you can reach on M&K is higher than on controller, which is true. At the end of the day, just use what you prefer. I can't imagine playing CS2 with a controller, and I don't think Far Cry would be nearly as much fun on mouse and keyboard, there's different cases for both. But you absolutely won't be able to stack up to people playing M&K in most competitive shooters, and that's what people mean when they say M&K is better.
If you mean for casual play, then use whatever you want.
If you mean for competitive play, then until you specify the game, this post is pointless. Lots of competitive Apex Legends and Halo players use controllers, but you would never in a million years catch a professional Counter-Strike or Quake player using a controller.
No sun assist on those yet
Show me a professional competitive gamer who plays with a controller. I'll wait.
There are lots of Apex Legends and Halo players who do, but there are zero Counter Strike and Quake players who do.
Without specifying which FPS game, OP's post is kinda pointless.
I could argue that at the time counter strike came out, pc and consoles were very separate and practically no one was using a game pad on pc.
"The control scheme that needs aim assist for fps games is good"
???
Serviceable isn't the same as good.
They certainly work. Sure. But a mouse is still objectively superior in terms of speed and precision.
Dang! You nailed the unpopular part!
And you managed to explain your stance in a great way, so kudos!
I will say that your reasoning goes both ways though. And it misses a key component.
Once you're used to m&k play, you've got the same muscle memory built up that controller players get on their preferred interface. So, in that regard, neither is inherently better. What you practice most is going to be what ends up working best for an individual, even if there is a definitive superior choice in some quantifiable criteria (this doesn't just apply to gaming. Look at how much better the design of dvorak layout is vs qwerty, and then look at how few people are willing to retrain to use it).
I will say that the list of things you gave as drawbacks to m&k play aren't necessarily drawbacks. You listed a great set of things that mean m&k play is highly adaptable. You tweak the controls to what you want, but you have the ability to use what comes out if the box. Controllers don't have nearly the same degree of customization. Thus, if a controller doesn't match your needs, you're fucked if that's all you can use (which is why some folks can't play on consoles.
You closed with the statement "... I find it easier to aim with... It feels natural." That's a very subjective statement. You're talking about feeling and your personal take on what is easy/natural.
Which isn't disagreeing! You're still dead right that controllers of any given type are a good choice to have for players. Why fix what ain't broken, if that's what works for you, just because it's a different platform? I'm just pointing out some difficulties in the presentation of your opinion.
On a personal note, I wish like hell it was easier to use k&m on consoles. My arthritis makes controllers awkward and inhibit what, how long, and how well I can play. It doesn't help that I have to get used to whatever console it is when I switch between them. Going from a sony layout to a Nintendo one makes for a good bit of sub-optimal play that's also below the sub-optimal play I already have from my hands not working right, until I readjust. I don't play competitively at all, even on a casual level, but FPS games are rarely fun until I've done that adjustment, and that time cuts into how long I can play total because it just hurts.
But I'm damn glad PCs allow for controllers for those that prefer them :)
Had a console player join our Tarkov discord. Dude spent a week setting up his controller. Still got his add handed to him continuously until he switched to keyboard and mouse.
Using a controller without aim assist will never make you competitive against keyboard and mouse. Sorry, not sorry.
I've had this discussion a few times. It has always ended with me asking "do you have aim assist on?".
Eh, you can't get precision shooting with a controller in a fast-paced fight.
I mean, I've only done the top 2. Idk if I'm wrist or arm aimer, I don't even know what the 6/11 thing is referring to, aside from making sure mouse acceleration is off I'm all default settings. Default dpi that came with the mouse, could change it, didn't see a point.
Deluded
I don't think anybody actually hates on you for using a controller on a computer. Whatever input you like is fine. Have the best experience you want.
The only issue is in competitive games, where everyone has to have the same playing field, nobody with an unfair advantage. Then a controller without aim assistance, put you at a severe disadvantage. Which is why people for cross-play games recommend the keyboard and mouse to be more competitive.
Halo 1,2,3 Legendary speed run word record holders use comtrollers (yes, PC). I have not seen this with any other game. It is about how well a game is optimised for controllers. It is hard to land head shots with a controller in Counter Strike, but slightly easy in Battlefield (yes, without aim assist).
OP, if you mean aiming with sticks, consider how they work vs mouse. E.g. while you rotating left and at some momet decide to immediately rotate right, you can do this instantly with a mouse, but you have to go from the "rotating to the left" through "rotating to the left slightly", "don't rotate", "rotate to the right slightly" in order to reach the "rotate to the right" phase. Yes, various games and control schemes can reduce the impact of this lag, but ultimately this lag is unavoidable with sticks, and the mouse scheme doesn't ever need any corrections for the similar situation. It only ever suffers from broken or forced acceleration settings in some games.
Instantly downvoted for this terrible opinion. Then noticed the sub.
Play with the input you like to play, nobody cares.
In highly competitive games, I just wish they would separate ques by input, because aim assist in most games is cranked so high that it's basically an aimbot.Permanently Deleted
I've got an even more unpopular opinion on this: Best setup is controller with analog stick for movement and mouse or thumb trackball for aiming/looking. Basically like a nunchuck. The analog stick allows more smooth movement, while the mouse/trackball allow fast pointing and pinpoint stopping while targeting. Though, everyone I tell about my setup calls me insane 🤷 I find 8 directions and only one speed very limiting
I'd like to try right a stick for movement and mouse for looking, but with a full controller that doesn't really work. And so far I haven't sacrificed a controller to saw off the right side so it can rest on a table with a similar hand position as a mouse.
My chair is kinda comfy and goes back a lot. I rest the controller in my lap or on my thigh. I have an extra table on the side for mouse/trackball. It's like an extended armrest.
some people feel natural with touch keyboard or trackpad, but that doesnt mean they arent shittier than other options
If you can beat me in Quake on controller with no hacks I'll give you $100
It seemed to me everyone agreed that if you line up an average mouse player vs a pro controller player the latter one will bite the dust. Maybe it's somehat different with current control schemes with track pad and gyro that controllers allow though.
People are misunderstanding this post. Ops goal is fun, not being the best fps player they could possibly be.
Ops argument is that a mouse keyboard setup, when the goal is "fun," in their eyes, is not better.
Then, they get jumped by gamer nerds who want to statisticly prove why op is wrong, but it's just missing the point.
He said he finds it easier to aim with a controller. I think it's fair to point out that the reason for that is in no small part due to the auto aim.
I had to listen to a buddy growing up with two doctor parents and extremely wealthy grandparents who thought he was some kind of counter cultural Maverick for backpacking through Europe after high school before spending the next like 12 years getting like 4 different arts degrees because there was an infinite educational fund set aside for him.
This has similar vibes. Born on 3rd thinking you hit a triple.
I disagree. Playing for fun would mean using a controller. Playing for fun would mean using a mouse and keyboard. Playing for fun is NOT finding out if you use your wrist or arm to aim. Playing for fun is NOT finding optimal sensitivity. That's for competition.
He's comparing how he plays for fun with how others play for competition.
I recently played Half-Life 1 (with a mouse and keyboard) and decided to tick auto-aim on.
It's definitely more 'fun' but there wasn't ever any tension or challenge when I encountered a head crab, the aim assist basically trivialized entire classes of enemies.What can I say, us gamer nerds feel very strongly about our input devices.