Do you think that dating is hard sometimes...?

Dating through an app is hard. I can't hack it at all. Dating through mutual friends will limit your options, but genuine connections happen much more readily. I've found (what felt like) true love a few times, all from mutual acquaintances. I didn't have a good job, and I'm not even that nice (or "nice") of a guy IMO. I just made normal friends, and dated the people they knew.

You don't need to compete with the whole world of sexy, highly eligible, rich people. You need to be a person with friends, not habitually smell bad, and be capable of genuine human vulnerability. That's literally it.

I should find out how to make friends. Still not able to, after all those years.
- Same! I moved hella far from all my old groups, and am basically starting over now. I'm not a hermit, I'm prestiging.
- I think It is easier to make friends through things like hobbies, where you regularly see them and have an activity to do together

Hey OP, I hear your frustration. Sometimes, she will simply not be into you like that, and that’s okay. But there are concepts that can significantly improve your dating life if you learn them.

The most important thing is to intentionally be romantic. You have to flirt. The way you describe this interaction doesn’t sound very flirty. She was nice and you had a good conversation? That’s great, but she could probably get a similar experience from a friend.

Flirting is about making things exciting. Taking a risk and making your intentions known is often attractive. Think playful banter. Having a low stakes, interview-style conversation is just boring for most women.

Practical ways to be more flirty:

choose a venue where you can sit side by side
maintain great eye contact when she’s talking
don’t rush to fill every silence, let it breathe
use statements more, rather than just questions
respectful and appropriate use of touch
playfully challenge or disagree with her at times
humor is great, but don’t constantly joke around

Basically, being a nice guy with a good job is great, and actually a prerequisite for many women to date you. But it’s not inherently sexy. You gotta learn how to embrace your romantic side to show them you’re capable of that, too.

OP is doing something right if they're making it all the way to a date. I'm usually pretty great in person, don't often have issues getting second dates if I want them, but holy shit the early stages on apps are infuriating. Most men aren't signing up to dating sites to try out our comedy routines and throw out pickup lines for fun, but it seems like that's what it takes to get a reply.

Women often don't feel the need to fill out anything in their profiles since they know they can skate by on a couple of cute photos, a platitude, and/or a list of things they don't want. I need to ask questions to make sure I'm not wasting my time. How do I have a fun conversation if I have no idea what they like? Asking and answering questions might be "boring" but I also feel like it's important to figure out if we're just wasting time. If you jump to the date without much talking, you might have a lot of those left over.
- Agreed, if OP is getting dates then women are clearly interested, just something not clicking on the first date. And yeah, texting on apps definitely sucks. I try to do it as little as possible. But I think many questions can be reworked into statements, like "Where do you work" is boring, but "I'm getting lawyer vibes" accomplishes the same thing and is more fun

Dating sucks. For every nice person you meet and make a connection of some sort with there’s three or four who drop off the face of the planet. I get it’s easier to just ghost but it’s pretty shitty. (And this is speaking as someone with social anxiety who has definitely ghosted before lol oops)

I think this is also key to remember - there are a million reasons why people might end up ghosting, and half of them don't really have to do with the person being ghosted at all. Sometimes keeping up with conversations just becomes overwhelming for some people.

It's always important to look for ways to improve as a person, but it's equally important to not interpret everything as a personal failure. Sometimes things just don't work out. :)

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Wow, this is a very mature and refreshing perspective. Thank you for sharing!

I have definitely told guys at the end of a date that I "want to see them again" while having no intention of seeing them again. It's a safety thing. IME guys can Jekyll and Hyde pretty hard when being rejected.

I know it can hurt feelings, but when it comes down to it, my safety > your feelings

I would never recommend putting yourself at risk, but ghosting the person after lying that you'd like to see them again is just a dick move.
What a shitty take. You can tell the guy afterwards via messaging. Not hard...
I (man) had similar experience as op and i tougth that people on dating apps are really rude for some reason that it is a apps community thing or something this scenario never occure to me as a option. Is really meeting some foreigner as a girl so scary and/or dangerous?
- Yes it is scary and dangerous. Additionally, some completely flip or "just" start insulting you when you say you don't want to see them again. I am happier single than trying to go on dates and I bet that's one of the reasons only 20 % or so of the users on dating apps are women.
What a weak excuse for your shitty behaviour. You can just not tell them in person, but afterwards online.
Thats mean of you
- After being threatened, stalked, followed and sexually assaulted by men I've rejected in person, I'm totally okay with being mean if it lets me avoid all that.
I'd get saying it if they ask but might not need to be said if they don't ask for a second date on the spot.

I met my wife dating online. Before that it was brutal. Lots of ignored messages. Lots of messaging that just ended (often on the woman's end, but sometimes on my end). And plenty of first dates.

When I first started dating I wasn't picky. Basically any girl interested in me, I'd show interest. Eventually I actually applied myself to dating with purpose. This helped a bit as I was often times being the one to make the decision whether or not to even meet up with a woman. I made sure they met my criteria and wanted the same things as I did. And doing this required that I was honest with myself. I didn't want to party, I wanted children, I wanted someone who would challenge me and call me out on my bullshit, but I also needed someone who wasn't overly sensitive as I am often quite blunt and speak without thinking.

Basically I had to shift from wasting my time with anyone to getting right to the point and making sure our values and trajectories in life aligned. This filtered out a lot of women. Either immediately because we didn't want the same things or because they were put off by my directness.

This is my experience as well. Being picky and only dating people with your time and effort actually increases success.
This is a great point. I think especially men approach dating as a quantity game, when really it should be a quality game.

I had a friend who was having problems with dating. Specifically his online dating wasn’t going well, and while he was a super outgoing person, he wasn’t the kind of guy to pickup a woman at a bar. Anyways, I told him to first think of his target demographic. What do they look like? What are their hobbies? What’s traits, characteristics, and thoughts do they have that you look for?

Once you know who you’re after, then write for them. Treat the space on your profile as a sort of open-ended love letter for a fill-in-the-blank style adventure. Maybe even make it an actual fill-in-the-blank as a sort of cool way for them to have interaction with the profile.

Another point is Algorithms, algorithms, algorithms! People forget that algorithms run our lives from HR filtering applications, to online dating. Have engagement on the site. Specifically by updating your profile regularly. That keeps the pictures fresh, the content current, and feeds the algorithm to boost you to the top.

Maintaining a relationship is always the fun and easier part, IMO. I’ve always told friends and family that relationships aren’t hard work with the correct partner. If someone ghosts you, it means they aren’t right for you, or it isn’t the time for them. As well, focus on keeping engagement with that person active. Just like algorithms on websites people love someone who is constantly updating, and staying current. It doesn’t have to be exhausting, but it does require some effort on your part.

Lastly what helped my friend the most was when I told him to scale back the nerd. To include it as part of your hobbies and a single picture, but having multiple pictures of you doing the same thing is repetitive, unhelpful, and only tells me one thing about you. Variety is the name of the game.

That is why I do bot date. I am far too one dimensional in my life style and interests to attract anyone on these platforms and I won't pretend I am different just to have success there that will inevitably crumble as they realize I don't actually like bouldering.

I wouldn't call it hard per se. I would call most current dating practices a waste of time. It's a lot like playing the lottery, but instead of money, I pay with my time. And even statistically speaking, the odds are quite bad, for both sides. When you have so many choices every choice seems less worth it. When you have too few choices, competition is fierce. I envy neither men nor women in today's scene, and I'd expect it to be much more difficult for the LGBT+ community.

I would say two things to you, not necessarily connected.

One, we think the grass is always greener on the other side. When I look back at my partnered life compared to my single life now, I would say my life now is better. After spending time with myself I was finally able to solve loads of internal issues. Relationships can become a very comfortable state and I definitely let myself go too often. I haven't forgotten that loneliness also occurred while I wasn't single.

Two, you can make no mistakes and still lose. As Picard said it best, that's just life. If life isn't working now, I wouldn't expect a partner to fix it. After the honeymoon phase, we tend to fall back to our old selves. Use this time to get that self in order and perhaps while you do it you find yourself happier regardless of the outcome of life.

Fun fact: being married is also hard lol. Different problems, but problems nonetheless.

Getting ghosted is brutal, but the plus side is you've dodged a bullet in someone that's not ready for a proper relationship.

Well fast forward a week, I keep texting her to set something up, but she’s not responding. I think she’s ghosted me. I mean, that’s fine, but if you don’t want to date me anymore, then just let me know. I will respect your decision.

well... about that. it might not be, but it also might just be that's her general way of breaking things off. There's a truly shocking number of guys that don't respond well to rejection and get all crazy. It may not be a you-thing, just a past experiences thing. She has no way of knowing, really, how you will behave until it happens.

I can’t blame her for not being straightforward and trying to minimize risk. I can’t even imagine the number of things women deal with when dating that I, as a guy, have never even had to think of. Unfortunately, keeping herself safe can make people like OP question themselves. @app_priori, don’t take it personally.
There's a truly shocking number of guys that don't respond well to rejection and get all crazy.

Even tho I don't go crazy, as a guy, I do find it strange how a first date can go well and then the girl is like "I don't feel the connection".

I guess I don't come from a romantic movie universe where you fall to your knees from love at first sight.

That is the problem with dating like this tho. If you make friends first, you can know the person before, and not just go by the impression of one date.

But yea dating just sucks in general. Fuck that.
- But yea dating just sucks in general. Fuck that.
  
  I've had so many people telling me horror stories from internet dating that I've just stayed away. Ironically, I've had at least one relationship that while it ended... (lets just say it ran it's course,) it wasn't horrible. We kind of fell into it, though, as friends then more.
  
  The current relationship started more intentionally so- but it still started as "I like you as a friend, maybe more, lets see where it goes," kind of thing.

Hey, it's not your fault.

If you are a guy, and you don't look like Brad Pitt, online dating is depressing. If you happen to look like Brad Pitt, it can still be pretty hard.

That's just how it is structured. People approach online dating looking for short term distractions. Try setting up a profile saying something like 'I am looking for someone who is willing to put in the hardwork through all the arguments and the compromises and adjustments we will need to make a marriage work' and see how much success you have.

You could be doing everything right and you still will end up getting matched with a lot of people who might not be as serious as you might be about it. That's just how online dating works.

Do you guys with successful dating experience think it was worth it? I got ghosted only once and it took me quite some time in tinder even to get to that point but after that i gave up on people and i am more focusing on work and my hobby and i think i am quite happy i have much less suicide tougths than in my dating phase.

Same here. Dating apps are pure poison for my mental well being. It made me realise I need professional help with my depression. But guess what my therapist wants me to do now. Use dating apps again, lol.
- Will you try it again? If yes in a different app? On some post on lemmy i heard about open source dating app probably not very popular but this could be better since the target of the app is not get money from you but make you happy to donate them and also it would be very cool to find someone else who likes nerdy open source software because most people who i know are quite the oposite.
- You know what? i will give it a chance if i find how it is called
Do what makes you happy. If dating puts you in a bad place just don't. But also know a relationship won't just fall into your lap. It takes work from all parties involved. So if being someone is your ultimate end game it might be worth figuring out a system that works for you, dating app or otherwise.
I feel like it was worth it for me. I also learned a lot about myself and what I was ultimately looking for in a partner. Also the things I needed to improve about myself if I was going to hold a partner to those standards. It took quite a lot of dates for me to really figure it all out though, but once I did it made it all a lot easier.
Just remember in the end dating apps are trying to take your money and keep you satisfied while doing their best to also not get you into a relationship as they lose their product when you do.
My dude I have touched so many boobs. Top tier experience highly recommend.

Less crassly I've had a lot of fun and met some fantastic people.

There's a lot of frustrations but, ehh, such is life.

But for you specifically , if you're happy as you are don't sweat it.

30F I've given up on the apps

Only "sometimes"? I think it's more like "always".

IMO you should aspire to be the kind of person you'd want to date. It probably would improve your chances but even if it doesn't you'd at least be more happy with yourself and you can flourish in independence.

A witty, self reliant, modern, slightly kinky redhead?
- Well that does sound achievable and if you become that you attract people with the same taste in their partner so you probably have a lot in common emotionally.
- No, no, no, a nerdy slightly goth brunette. Duhhhh!
This is probably the most realistic and useful advice you can get. Don't try to be someone you're not. Play to your strengths but dating and relationship is always work.

And remember there is a ton of luck involved. Some people find their life partner first try and others have to go through a lot more relationships before they do

Tinder ruined dating. It’s made interactions very transactional.

imo dating is always transactional even before tinder, tinder just make it happen more often, also tinder only attract spesific kind of people so I cant really blame tinder for this
- It happened sometimes, but it was easier to filter those people out. Now those people have become the norm. Tinder absolutely is to blame for this.

do you think dating is hard sometimes?

No.

I think it's hard all the time. But I am aromantic, pansexual, have ADHD and may also be on the spectrum. I have a hard time in general when it comes to dealing with other human beings, and an even harder time in more intimate relationships.

Trying to meet women (not exclusively dating, trying to find friends as well) I'm proper confused. I don't get their clues (positive or negative) and I'm stumbling from one misunderstanding to the next. That's like... really hard!

Dating is definitely a learning experience. Good luck dude!

Dating is one of the hardest things tbh, I met my girlfriend two years ago just from pure chance but generally dating from apps is a mixed bag and I’ve found best results from just meeting people out in my daily life

What do you mean when you say you keep texting her but she's not responding?

Sounds pretty self explanatory to me
- The thing is, has he texted 3 times over a week with no response or is he texting 20 times a day.
  
  I was once chatting to someone for a bit, then I had a nap, maybe 2 hours, and they'd sent me like 10 messages asking why I was ignoring them. I never replied and blocked them because that's not OK.
  
  I bet they tell the story as me suddenly stopping replying for no reason.

I hate that this is the world waiting for me

Dating sucks, but you don't! 😁👍

I think it's pretty standard protocol for most women to say the date went well and they would like to meet up again when still face-to-face with the guy they're on the date with.
Minimise the risk of becoming a statistic, and all that.

For messaging with dates, I generally say 2 texts then let them respond (and that's not messages like "hey" "u up?" "Are you there??" But like actual content that they can engage with).

If they don't get back to you, don't take it personally. Just forget and move on.

I don't even ask them in person. I don't expect them to be honest if it's negative. It's generally been clear in the past if they were interested without me asking.

I do tend to ask after anyway or send a nice message to avoid ghosting. A vast majority women I've gone on a date haven't ghosted actually. The idea of leaving the ball in their court after a message or two is a good one.
- Yeah tbh you see that kind of thing with non-romantic conversations all the time as well. How many times has someone said "we should hang out more" and you say "yeah, totally!" even though you know you never will, lol.
  
  Definitely a good idea to follow up after the date just to keep the lines of communication open. I don't buy into the whole "wait x amount of time" thing.

Dating is always hard, with or without using a dating app

I know women might have a good reason to ghost sometimes, but it's still a shitty thing to do and can be really taxing as a guy who's trying to date. It's hard not to get emotionally invested when the intent is to date, and it's hard to stop being emotionally invested unless there's a clear "this isn't working out". I wish I could just be more ruthless and cut someone off for not responding within a given window, but my mind doesn't work that way.

Dating really sucks. You have to be in a good mindset to sustain getting the shit kicked out of you emotionally. Be sure to take care of yourself. Be as content as possible in your independent lifestyle, and when you're ready again throw yourself into the ring. It can work out, but if you're like me, you're going to have to get beat up a few times before it does. It's just the way it is, unfortunately.

If you're that emotionally invested that early on, you may need to do some self-reflection. The early stage of dating someone is not supposed to be a serious-committed-relationship type of vibe. You really are just hanging out and getting to know whether you would like to spend more time with the other person. If you're so invested at that stage that ghosting is considered taxing to you, sit with your own priorities for a while and determine whether you're going into dating with a healthy mindset.

And you don't have to be ruthless to know that your time would be better spent elsewhere. Take the sunk-cost on the chin and move on.
I had problems with this, and I just stopped getting attached. It took 2-3 dates for me to get actually attached to my partner, even though all of our dates and conversations were super fun and I genuinely enjoyed her company.

Don’t be too hard on yourself as there are a range of factors which come into play.

The very advantage of a dating app also happens to be its biggest problem which happens to be the option of having many to choose from. You’re not only competing for her attention but also against thousands of other guys in the same pool as you (based on your location/age etc).

All you can do is control your outlook here. There could be plenty more rejections down the road but do not let these instances downgrade your self-worth. Hope you find someone who likes you for who you are.

I keep texting her

There's your problem. Women can smell desperation.

For me dating got real easy when I took sex, and romance out of it.