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Privacy @lemmy.ml

Kidplayer_666 @lemm.ee

1y ago

How do DM's work in Lemmy? How safe are they?

46 comments

They are no more safe than sending a message like this :). Except you would be the only person it's targeted for. besides the admins of both instances can read them as well.
Which is why I'm the web interface it says it's not safe/e2e encrypted.
Worried about it? Add a matrix handle to your profile and then it enables a "send a secure message" button in the UI. And redirects people to use matrix to send messages to you
- Oh shit that matrix feature is real cool. Thanks for sharing.
- besides the admins of both instances can read them as well.
  What?
  
  Wait until you hear about the people hosting your email
  
  Nothing on lemmy is private. Your instance is just hosted on a server, and in this instance that server is essentially just someone elses computer. Anything you do or say on the server can be viewed by the admin and whoever they decide to delegate access to.
  This is true for practically every online service ever.
  
  the admin of your Instance has full access to your account as they have full access to the database that holds your dms
- Oh ok, thanks!
- I didn't know about the matrix feature, thank you!
- Didn’t know about the Matrix integration. Thanks!

Short answer: Unsafe
Long answer: UNSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFFFFFFFFFEEEEEEEEEEFE
- Middle answer?
  
  Unsmatrixafe

DMs are basically comments without a post and only one regular user can see it. No encryption, and it can be viewed by admins. (Private message reporting is a thing)

DMs on the fediverse (and Lemmy) are posts with a specific visibility that marks them as DMs. They are sent like any other posts, so there's no encryption and instance admins could in theory read them in the database.
- Not in theory, in practice, but this is not high need feature.
  If you need to keep your sexting private, use another platform. If you have a exhibition fetish, go ahead.
  As a coder I can say that e2e encryption is pain in the ass, key generation and exchanging, complex and annoying to do.
  
  e2e encryption is pain in the ass, key generation and exchanging, complex and annoying to do
  No, no it's not.
  Yes, it's more complex than sending plaintext. But for starters it'd be extremely simple to generate a keypair for every user and publish the public key with their profile. When sending DMs you'd use this public key to encrypt the message.
  As for storing the private key you could encrypt it with (a derivative of) the user's password, and store it decrypted possibly just in the user's browser.
  This simple measure would prevent simple ways of reading the DMs, though obviously you still need to trust that your instance admins are actually serving you the code they claim they do. But it'd definitely prevent "accidental" misuse.

It is not unsafe.
It is not 100% private. Admins can read your messages if they choose to investigate your messages.
It will not get blasted out to the whole fediverse; just to the recipient you indicated. (Unless an admin from the previous point reads your message and publishes it publicly on the fediverse)
You do not get to do anything naughty with it; expect to be caught if you break the rules.
- It is not unsafe.
  It is not 100% private. Admins can read your messages if they choose to investigate your messages.
  These points contradict one another.
  
  How so? The message is safely delivered solely to the intended recipient, albeit in plain text (not private).
  If there's anywhere that the commonly used email analogy fits, I think it would be here
  
  It does what it claims to do, it's just that what it claims to do is clearly not complete privacy.
  
  No; they don't. You just wanted to be a reply guy.

Anyone remember the days when they were called PMs? They are least used the word Private in the acronym.
- Yes, and when we used the term "programs" instead of "apps" for everything.
  
  Let's go even farther back and say they were all "applications"
- What does DM even mean?
  
  Direct Message. As opposed to Private Message.
  Services at least acknowledge that the messages aren't private, which is an improvement I guess.

Not safe at all because it was not designed to be, it even tells you as much. Use them to exchange e2ee contacts and then use that.
- @HiddenLayer5 @Kidplayer666 U can use it to privately talk as much as ur comfortable with it going public.

I don't know any of the technical details, but my understanding is they're very unsafe. Our instance has a warning recommending that you take conversations involving sensitive information to Matrix

I dont think they’re supposed to be any safe at all. As part of our board culture we’re to expect that DMs offer no security, and to use other platforms if it’s a concern.

46 comments