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other instances: why do you hate us?
other instances: why do you hate us?
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444 comments
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I don't hate you, this defederation thing is something I don't like. It creates echo chambers. Reddit was an echo chamber, too. But it was one everyone creates for themselves, subscribe: privacy, linux and selfhost and your chamber of anti-GAFAM is ready to rock (for example).
Seeing Hexbear and other stuff in "All" helps to escape your own bubble and creates more divergent discussion.
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I don't think they're arguing echo chambers can never ever be called for, just that Lemmy may be better off not as one.
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I agree with your last statement 100%
I am generally against defederation and censorship.
In response to the OP of this topic though, people hate hexbears because of the constant hardcore brigading and the huge inline image abuse.
It's annoying as fuck. As soon as you smell a "lib", even though you are usually wrong, it just turns into a massive dogpile on anyone who doesn't share your identical belief structure.
That isn't debate, it's bullying. You have the numbers to pull it off but if it carries on you will absolutely end up defederated from everywhere.
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As soon as you smell a "lib", even though you are usually wrong
We're actually 100% correct, just fyi. A lot of people don't know that about us
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Yes, you are absolutely the smartest ones in the room. All rooms. At all times.
I suspect the userbase of hexbear skews extremely young. I too had everything figured out when I was younger.
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Yes, you are absolutely the smartest ones in the room. All rooms. At all times.
As opposed to you, who definitely doesn't roleplay being the "smartest one in the room" and speak in condescending generalizations about a large group of political others. Never ever.
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If you are still seriously reading communist theory beyond the age of 20, I've got some truly terrible news for you. You should probably stay out of rooms altogether before anyone puts it together for you.
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So what big boy books do you like to read, then? Give us your top recommendations.
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Read that one Isaac Asimov review of it, it’s hilarious. Here I’ll pull it up https://www.newworker.org/ncptrory/1984.htm
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We all know you're using that isle of man flag as a coward's version of the afrikaner flag. You're so god damn bad at this.
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Yeah, that had me raising my eyebrows too
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I'd like to call it the Brakpan swastika, but that's harsh on Brakpan.
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A) I don't know the first thing about an Afrikaner flag.
B) I was born there
Try again.
I hope you get the Praxis you are looking for one day.
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Mate pull the other one. You write like a yank and you spell like one too. It takes 5 seconds to see every single little thing in your user history is american, not british.
Fooling absolutely nobody.
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Yep. Doesn't change where I was born. Us filthy "libs" are a bit more mobile than you lot. I've lived in a lot of countries, and I've visited half the world including China which is why I don't need to engage any further on this. None of you have a clue what you are talking about. You are singing the praises of a country that is a living hell for 99% of its inhabitants, even moreso than filthy capitalist strongholds.
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Us filthy "libs" are a bit more mobile than you lot. I've lived in a lot of countries, and I've visited half the world including China which is why I don't need to engage any further on this.
This is a fantastic way to piss off poor and marginalized people, flaunting your privilege and using it in a context to assert some flavor of chauvinistic superiority over us. You're only digging the grave of your class further and further by being a jerk that thinks their own shit doesn't stink, which is fine with me as I enjoy skipping to the end of direct class conflict. The people you step on are the vast majority on this planet, and they recognize which class actually shares their interests based on how they are treated, so you're just giving us more comrades and bolstering solidarity by throwing them into our open arms, critical support to you in that regard.
You said you've "visited China"... When? When precisely did you visit China, and where did you actually go? What's your story here?
You are singing the praises of a country that is a living hell for 99% of its inhabitants, even moreso than filthy capitalist strongholds.
Complete projection here. Everything you said is basically true in regards to specifically the United States, but also the Western world in general, which is only worsening in living conditions for the working class as time goes on. You failed to elaborate on why you assert China to be a "living hell" for 99% of its inhabitants. Do you have any actual tangible examples, or is this just like all the other bullshit claims that are taken at face value as Gospel Truth because liberal media monopolies in the West, with the US at its core and main source, endlessly hammer these things into the heads of the population?
See, unlike you, a person who speaks, condescends and sneers from an ivory tower of privilege, the vast majority of us cannot afford to just take luxury vacations and go wherever we want. Your demographic treat the poor of other countries like zoo animals, finding it a good time to travel to poorer places and ooo and awe at the less fortunate to reinforce your confidence in grandstanding to flex and scoff at those that oppose your class interests and intend to fight against them.
Here. I may not have the wealth to travel around the world, but I'm resourceful enough to have found some concrete examples of this "living hell" you spoke of. Check it out:
Things You CAN Do in China (You CAN'T Do in America) Americans WON'T Believe It...
Apartment Tour in China | What can $300 a month get you? 🇨🇳
China vs USA - Please DON'T Compare... (Americans Crying) (CW for the vegans: meat carving/eating)
China LEADS the World in Electric Cars! (America Shocked)Next time you want to talk about socialist nations being inferior to the living hell that capitalist nations have cultivated for their own people, bring receipts. If you refuse to engage in the concrete examples I have provided, don't even bother replying because I'm not interested in bad faith conversation.
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Please tell us more about the plight of incarcerated indigenous people, o australian
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China is a living hell for 99% of its inhabitants which is why they overwhelmingly approve of their government and are overall happier and more optimistic about the future than people living in western “democracies” , you sure are smart dude
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Seems I have to narc on all my professors, postdocs and PhDs, they all read Marx.
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So which one is it: round up all the intellectuals and cast them out to carry out farm labour, or let them sit in their ivory tower and read theory?
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Your point was "No adult reads Marx!", which I disproved readily with people of status and learned people that do.
The funny thing is that one of the professors does actually carry out farm labour, as they are involved in international brigades and works for 30 years for food security with sustainable practices in precarious countries. Did quite a bit of their study in AES countries, too.
I would start with casting you out to do farm labour (which you seem so into) and also having to read/discuss various things, too.
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round up the "Passiv income Class defending" intellectuals and cast them out to carry out farm labou AND let them read theory?
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no reply .. tssk ... typical .. currently probably franticlly searching for something online he can repeat ...
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There's this reactionary trope that Communism is just something teenagers who have never had real jobs are into, that somehow the basement-dwelling children of 1st world small business owners are able to easily blaze through all The Manifesto, Grundrisse, Anti-Duhring, German ideology, All 3 volumes of Das Kapital, All 3 volumes of Theories of Surplus Value, etc. etc. etc. before they're old enough to drink, and then after getting an associates degree abandon it because they learned to adult... it's patently absurd. If anything the type of people in question don't even begin to question Capitalism until they're well into their 20s and sufficiently addled with student loan debt and long hours and a bleaker future than their parents.
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Which Marxist texts have you read, and can you summarize any Marxist ideas without plagiarizing wikipedia?
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Okay, explain how the following mathematical formula that's used to examine the rate of profits of a company, which tends to fall, is invalid and shouldn't be studied
p' : p'1 = s' (v/C) : s' (v1/C1) = (v/C) : v1/C1
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This is you forgetting that there are actually theoretical texts and not just agitprop like the Manifesto, right?
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What a silly statement! It is so ridiculous that it doesn’t even deserve a rebuttal
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that's right, I only read liberal theory. Slava Hogwarti!
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Try another example, but this time try and bully someone into revolutionary thought and see how it goes.
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That is the best, most comprehensive and cohesive reply I've received online for over a decade. Please don't take my lack of any further debate as a sign of disrespect, you've actually given me some things to think on.
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Brigading is a made-up reddit thing. It used to be normal for forums to “raid” other forums, and if you couldn’t deal with that, it was on you. However we are not “raiding” there is no organised movement to go somewhere and post on it. We see the same posts pop up in “all”, and we have a large and active userbase, that’s all that’s happening.
You realise we can access hexbear.net and see the local posts? It's absolutely coordinated behaviour. Hexbear users post links to a given thread from another instance in chat or chapo or wherever with a suitably inflammatory title along with a call to arms along the lines of "Look at this terrible liberal take, OMG the entire cookie baking community is full of bigots and transphobes. Cookie bakers are bourgeois as hell!". Cue your entire community piling in to the cookie baking community to completely destroy all discussion of baking cookies until they get bored and move on.
You spend a lot of time talking about good faith discussions but from my perspective it's the hexbear community that isn't acting in good faith in most instances.
Regarding being “wrong about lib” I’m gonna disagree again. I think you have a different definition of what that is. Oftentimes we think of ourselves as being “leftists” or whatever, but by our words and actions we support the current (neo-liberal) system. Then it does not matter what we identify as, if we’re still furthering something else. If you’re interested in that kinda stuff you might want to read Combat Liberalism. It’s pretty short, so it’s a nice and quick primer.
I accept this, and I am guilty of this to the extreme. I was extremely politically active in my late teens and early 20's, and active in the labor movement. I have the criminal record as proof. I'm old as fuck now, and I have several people that depend on me NOT being in jail, and to continue pretending to be a functional member of our neo-liberal society to keep them from starving in the street.
I hate that the entirety of my time and energy is now exhausted on enriching "investors". I saw the system for what it is from a young age and fell into all of the traps anyway. The traps are effective, but that does not mean that my political ideology is in alignment with the system that sets them. Still, I acknowledge your point that things cannot change without action, and most times that means violent and illegal action. The system is built to protect itself.
As for your link... Mao Tse-tung killed, brutalised and starved to death more human beings than any other person that has ever lived. MILLIONS dead. If the society you seek to build is based on that same, tired old philosophy then I will fight you every step of the way. It's a very strange person that looks at the history of China over the last 100 years and decides they'd like to repeat it.
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It's a very strange person that looks at the history of China over the last 100 years and decides they'd like to repeat it.
Yeah, who would ever want to repeat this:
Famines were extremely common in China before the communists came to power and the Chinese people were among the poorest in the world. Mao certainly made mistakes, but these specific, dramatic events have been exaggerated to the point of obscuring the more general trend towards food security and poverty alleviation. Likewise, rural Chinese had no access whatsoever to modern medicine like vaccines, meaning that they were plagued by horrible, preventable diseases. But for some reason my history books neglected to mention things like the wildly successful Barefoot Doctors program, which drastically improved Chinese life expectancy and quality of life. I suppose stuff like that isn't all that exciting since we take it for granted, but the fact is that no country has ever lifted more people out of poverty and extreme poverty in so short a time as the PRC. And it certainly wasn't going to happen under the nationalists.
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Right, so riding the coattails of industrialization along with every single other country that was involved in WW2 is the direct result of Maoist thought and brutal fake-communist rule? You need to check a map, I think you are lost.
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China's industrialization and rise in life expectancy did not require Mao Zedong thought, but it did require someone who was interested in doing it, and the nationalists weren't, nor were the invading Japanese, nor were the various warlord factions following the collapse of the Qing, nor were the Qing, nor were the European colonizers. Every one of those factions only wanted to loot the country for the short term benefit of their ruling elite. Any one of them could have accomplished a similar miracle, but they chose not to. Obviously, it was industrialization that brought about the bulk of the benefits, but there are reasons why China had not previously achieved its potential on that front. It would've been better if China had been led by someone who didn't have big brained ideas like killing all the sparrows, but like I said, despite these mistakes the general trend is clearly positive.
Not every country experienced the same rise in life expectancy or industrialization after WWII, no. Even today, many parts of the world experience food insecurity and over 700 million people live in extreme poverty, so I have no idea what you're on about. Of course, the idea that China would've experienced the same level of growth without the CPC is an unfalsifiable counterfactual, but we can plainly see the trend of a lack of growth prior to communist control in the graph I posted.
Here's what the infamous communist propaganda rag The World Bank has to say:
Over the past 40 years, the number of people in China with incomes below $1.90 per day – the International Poverty Line as defined by the World Bank to track global extreme poverty– has fallen by close to 800 million. With this, China has contributed close to three-quarters of the global reduction in the number of people living in extreme poverty. At China’s current national poverty line, the number of poor fell by 770 million over the same period.
Let me put it another way: how would the world look different to you if China was successful in alleviating poverty vs if it wasn't? How much information about the life of an average rural Chinese person actually makes its way to your feed? That's not an accusation or anything, there's lots of stuff happening everywhere around the world and no one can be expected to keep track of everything. It's just an observation that there are a lot of people, not just in China but all around the world, whose perspectives don't get proportionate representation in Western media or high school textbooks. It might be worthwhile to consider whether there are important details that have been omitted or deemphasized in the narrative you were taught.
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Oh, I didn’t know you were the arbitor of what was fake-communist rule
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You realise we can access hexbear.net and see the local posts? It's absolutely coordinated behaviour. Hexbear users post links to a given thread from another instance in chat or chapo or wherever with a suitably inflammatory title along with a call to arms
Do you think we're having users make accounts on defederated instances? We have a specific rule against "brigading" federated instances because it had like one thread about Ada where it actually happened. This is you jumping at shadows.
Mao Tse-tung
The modern romanization is Zedong, philistine.
killed, brutalised and starved to death more human beings than any other person that has ever lived.
Tell me about how much you aren't a lib.
If the society you seek to build is based on that same, tired old philosophy then I will fight you every step of the way.
As opposed to what? Anarchism? That's even older! But no, associating you with anarchists gives you too much credit. Tell us about how we should put more stock in whatever boutique ideology you pseudo-leftist piss sommeliers have cooked up lately instead of the ones that have actually gained ground or even exist outside of the internet.
It's a very strange person that looks at the history of China over the last 100 years and decides they'd like to repeat it.
It's a very strange person that talks about "the history of China over the last 100 years" while having themselves studied so little of it.
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I bey you think this “political freedom” should apply also to Nazis. Fuck off with that bullshit
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This is why Lenin emphasised a party with paid, professional cadre. Workers don't have the time and have responsibilities to others. It's not quite as bad as it used to be, but a professional core is still essential.
Join a party that's only moderately terrible, pay your dues.
As for Mao...it was arguably the least terrible century China has ever had, despite his errors. Most notably leaning too far into the KPAM's anarchist theory during the Great Leap Forward. (I like the KPAM but they had bad takes like anyone else.)
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Millions dead lmfao. I bet you heard that on your Fox News
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the constant hardcore brigading
Going to a thread on Active isn't brigading
As soon as you smell a "lib", even though you are usually wrong,
Uh, there are some anarcho-bidenists, but from what I have seen the record is pretty clear of false positives
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Viewing the entire world through the American lens is folly.
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Viewing the entire world through the American lens is folly.
i'm not american and i'm fine with calling these people anarcho-bidenists, it's just a way of saying some anarchists (especially western ones) are actually just radlibs, whether in awareness of it or not
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lol - I learned a new word. Thanks.
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ok it's weirdly funny in this context that the definition literally mentions joe biden lol
the fact it was posted by SexHaver212 is even better, that's 100% a former r/CTH user posting right after (?) the democratic primaries
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I am willing to bet that you are speaking from a country that America drags along in its wake, so you remain a bidenist no matter how many snide remarks you make about ze stupid Americans.
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That is unfortunately true. How do you break from such an unwanted position? Biden couldn't even find us on a map.
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Me too on both counts. I'm posting something of an apology. I've been a right dick in here.
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I'm not here to debate libs and you can't make me.
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Are the libs in the room with us right now?
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like, above us in the comment chain -
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You can use U block origin to block the emotes. I do that for the ones that bother me.
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That isn’t debate, it’s bullying.
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444 comments