"Um Actually, ☝️🤓, I've done the math and the PSL is fucked" and other bad takes.
"Um Actually, ☝️🤓, I've done the math and the PSL is fucked" and other bad takes.
"Um Actually, ☝️🤓, I've done the math and the PSL is fucked" and other bad takes.
The campaign strategy is a method of using the electoral hubbub for advertising that literally opens doors and gets politically unengaged people to think about politics. It's been pretty successful in peeling potential new members off of electoralism. They've basically doubled their membership as a direct result of the 2024 campaign.
Knocking a door or handing out a flyer for a campaign with reasonable goals most people support is going to be a much more effective strategy than deploying a pop-up ad on the web or walking up to someone and saying "Do you have a minute to talk about our Lord and Savior, Josef Stalin?" which is the only thing average Americans will hear if you start trying to talk about politics outside of the educationally designated be all and end all of politics that is electoralism.
This is exactly how I understand the strategy as non member. People are primed to talk politics around the election cycle even if they are "not into politics". Its inescapable. I didn't know that about their membership growth, but I can believe it.
I don't think they've officially announced membership growth figures yet, but every local party I'm aware of has at least as many new people in their onboarding as they have existing members, plus more people wanting to join. All of those new interested people are there specifically because of the electoral campaign.
One issue I see with this logic is it doesn't factor in the value of promoting PSL and it's ideals. Of course their direct action is important but the people who are going to Palestine protest or Union solidarity actions or whatever aren't the majority of Americans, even if a majority agree with those things (once you explain it using non scary commie words). The vast majority of Americans are not aware of politics other than voting Democrat or Republican every 2/4 years based almost entirely on IdPol. During a campaign PSL is showing that an alternative exist away from the ballot box as well.
How? How do the workers see the PSL campaign? They aren't in any debates, they aren't mentioned on any news. Barring a volunteer literally showing up to your house and knocking, you would have no idea they even exist. For millions of dollars over decades of campaigns, the PSL is still virtually unknown to anyone except people who are already radicalized.
Exactly this.
to Palestine protest or Union solidarity actions or whatever aren't the majority of Americans
They might not be the majority of Americans but they generate 30000x the pulbicity PSL ever has.
During a campaign PSL is showing that an alternative exist away from the ballot box as well.
In what way?
The Bolsheviks had a lot of debates and divergent paths to victory, but they were all planning on how to overthrow the authorities. The Chinese communists already had plans to take power even after 95% of their members were wiped out during the Long March
The Bolsheviks and Chinese communists took power in periods of crisis, when the Russian and Chinese governments were significantly weakened and their societies were already in turmoil due to massive wars. Preceding these crises were decades of organizing and propagandizing. America is not in an acute crisis. The government is strong. Communists are probably not capable of overthrowing it right now. I think the goal now should be to lay the groundwork, so that communists are positioned to exploit a crisis when one does occur in the future. I believe this is what the PSL is attempting to do.
As others have pointed out, elections are one of the few opportunities in the US to run large political outreach campaigns. The PSL doubled their numbers this year by using the election as a pretense to advertise and talk to people.
as always posting harsh truths on this topic.
They probably would've done more good if they just used that money to feed homeless people or donate that money to Palestinian orgs.
More direct good, maybe, but growing the party now allows them to accomplish more in the future.
Can you describe what flaw you see with this analysis? Do you think spending millions on an electoral campaign is a good use of dues? A better use of millions of dollars than some other project?
The flaw is thinking it was ever about winning an election, and not about using the election as a vehicle for propaganda. If the money converts into expanded party membership and the building of their mass movement, then it's well spent.
But I won't speak for them, from there 2020 announcement:
The PSL does not believe that the solution to the systemic problems facing the working class will come through the electoral route. The PSL is a revolutionary Marxist party in the United States that struggles for socialism. We want a revolution; and, we work hard to make it happen.
[...]
The PSL’s campaigns are meant to inspire more working-class organizing, agitation, and revolutionary consciousness. We take the ideas of socialism—a better, more just society; the way forward for humanity—to the workers and poor people in the United States. The PSL’s campaign has opened a much-needed avenue for workers to wage political combat against the capitalist establishment and their corrupt representatives.
From their 2024 announcement:
Our campaign is fighting not simply on “issues” but on the very issue of the type of organization we need to win. We are comparing and contrasting our ideas with the major capitalist parties, but also comparing and contrasting our organization strategy to that of other progressive currents. We need socialism to solve the ills of capitalism, and we need a revolutionary party to establish socialism. We are running to explain why both things must happen if we want a better future
So PSL needs to spend millions on a failing electoral strategy because it is .... a mechanism for advertising PSL? This to you is a good use of that much money?
Instead of organizing any workers they just advertise their ideas and then what? Somehow that creates a revolution? They want to "inspire more working-class organizing" but what working class organizing is PSL involved in? I've been organizing in one of the biggest cities with one of the biggest PSL chapters in the country for over a decade and PSL is virtually unknown to any workers here. The only people who know PSL here are the PB college kids who volunteer for them (and eventually leave because they have terrible internal structure and protect abusers), and other leftist in the area who see them as grifters who show up to events to try and recruit without contributing anything to the action taking place. The local DSA chapter has stronger ties with both labor and tenant movements than PSL, which is a fucking joke.
I'm a fan of breakthrough news but there is no merit in the argument that millions on electoral campaigns is growing any revolutionary movement. PSL is not a mass party, it is not made up of the masses. Much like DSA it is made up of overwhelmingly white college students and college graduates who look nothing like the masses and who the masses do not interact with. Growing paper membership to funnel them into an electoral campaign to grow paper membership serves the people at the top of PSL, and no one else
But they don't even get the party name on most of the ballots, they run under different parties. Like California, where nearly half their votes came from they run on the Peace and Freedom Party ticket.
How does that promote PSL? Even just the bare minimum of name recognition, it seems like money poorly spent. Not to mention the reputation of being a 'third party' is ... not great and will cause most people to just dismiss them outright.
You want the membership to reflect the working class not political wonks who pay too much attention to electoral politics.
I think the acknowledgement of poor math is merely to say "don't nitpick this" but pay attention to my final point.
How do you think about the point that electioneering for the national bourgeois American elections is a trap which sucks in resources and time that could be better spent elsewhere?
"a way for PSL to move money to the consultant class"
The post does not say that. The post is talking about USAmerican elections in general being a way to move money to a consultant class.
Does anyone have any thoughts about what the PSL should be doing? I'm not usian, so I have limited info. I think since the usian public implicitly upholds liberal democracy and its elections, it makes sense for them to participate, but clearly it's not very effective.
Also, the democrats spent $2B for 75M votes, meaning they purchased their votes at ~27 dollars. Even with this uncharitable reading, PSL were much thriftier with their donations.
What their doing its fine, since they view the elections as a vehicle for propaganda.
They could actually organize workers? A novel idea to communists in the west, I know.
For the amount of money they spend on these campaigns, they would have a larger reach spending half of it on just running ads online and then save the tens of thousands of hours of labor for actually organizing workers.
PSL should have instead spent 2 billion dollars, then they would have won like the Dems.
I do have to say that what a lot of people don't understand is that a lot of people in this country, I'd say the majority, do not pay attention to politics until major election years. They literally try to avoid it, including any discussions about it, and are scared of it making things awkward or weird. They avoid people handing them flyers in the street, the word union sounds scary and the word organizing or meetings sound exhausting, they make fun of overly political people talking to them, and they don't want to be fired by association for even talking to someone related to it. Outside of an election year where they're looking for information on who to vote for, they'll shut the door in your face for talking to them.
Running for office gives an avenue to access people who become amenable to talking and thinking about politics during the election years. During that time, people are thinking of who they want to vote for. Most people know there's issues in our system and hate both parties, but don't know what the alternatives would be. I know our local PSL chapter has basically doubled in people attending the last couple meetings since the election. Without a reason, such as political campaign, a lot of people will avoid these interactions. I doubt they'd be effective if they ran ads saying don't vote for anyone, come to our local meetings or something.
I think that there is merit to this argument if you are talking local politics, but even still I have doubts that this is more effective than dozens of other programs. Tenant organizing, labor organizing, food distributions, school supply drives, tutoring programs- there are so many things where you are actually impacting people in a way that builds sincere, strong relationships that can be mobilized to do more than just show up to vote every four years. With the amount of money and labor hours PSL throws into campaigns, resources that most colonized groups will never have in their organizing work, it is really wild to me that people are out here defending what is essentially a PR stunt. You would expect there to be some other call to action beyond donating money and voting once.
I have hope for PSL anyway, there's not much else going on in the US outside of hyper local groups, but these contradictions are certainly there and no one from PSL seems to want to acknowledge them.
Unexpected struggle session thread!
As a rule I personally don't bother criticizing anyone making an effort to spread socialist / anti-imperialist ideas, that shit's hindered and suppressed enough already.
I have weaved a tangled web with this one! Very unexpected haha.
I wouldn't criticize them to non leftists but we need to have these conversations in the left
Yeah, I don't see how this is dunk worthy. Assuming the numbers are accurate, that's $344k flushed down the drain for what exactly? How many homeless people did that $344k feed? Or building and maintaining community gardens? Or money that could've been given to Palestinian orgs? Where's the deliverables? And don't say awareness because if the party cared that much about awareness, they literally could just drop $100k at streamers' lap like Hasan to shill for the party or bought a bunch of ads. This $344k is essentially just a marketing campaign for the party if we're being honest.
This is why electoralism is a dead end in the US. You have to waste an obscene amount of money only to lose because you'll never outspend your opponents. And as for "well, we're participating in the electoral process to show how the electoral process is a sham," the majority of USians already don't vote. They already know it's a sham, and they're just there begging for the right people to explain to them why it's a sham. The most extreme case is Indigenous people. 99%, yes that's right, 99% rightfully saw the presidential election as the sham election that it was and refuse to humiliate themselves by going through the motions to legitimize the illegitimate settler colonial entity. PSL fielding candidates is already pointless to the 99% of Indigenous people who tune out of the election and to the 1% who are an assortment of compradors and mentally colonized individuals who humiliate themselves by licking the boots of the two parties.
They already know it's a sham, and they're just there begging for the right people to explain to them why it's a sham.
That's exactly what the campaign aimed to achieve.
My PSL local showed up for 2 weeks before the election and didn't know how to talk to voters at a public event DSA was tabling weekly at. (So twice before the election, and they stopped coming when it was over) It made it a lot harder to actually have conversations with folks because they were already turned off.
I'll be real, if anyone is trying to run a 3rd party presidential candidate I immediately assume they're not worth taking seriously. I'd rather they just talk about their politics directly or through other campaigns rather than the presidential shit, it is an immediate red flag.
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