7d ago

The OSM Community discusses the Trump Administration's renaming of "The Gulf of Mexico" to "The Gulf of America"

community.openstreetmap.org Gulf of America - Gulf of Mexico

President Donald Trump just said during his inauguration that he wants to rename the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America. Aside from the political aspects, how does that even work? How does OSM choose a source for that? I’m curious! Also, somebody executed what I thought while I wrote this post:

34 comments

For ducks sake, just because one country wants it to be different doesn't change how it's internationally recognized.

There's nothing to discuss. It's the Gulf of Mexico, and suggestions to the contrary are to be appropriately dismissed as childish.
Aa a side note, make sure that, no matter what, you find a way to follow "Gulf of" with "Mexico". It should flow by rote in the hearer's mind, simply by virtue of the fact that they hear it the correct way when you talk about it.
This is a trivially easy battle to fight. Only use the correct name, and it will be the one that sticks. Using the incorrect name, even to make correct statements about how it's dumb and childish and not going to be its name going forward, reinforces the lie.
Mexico is the Gulf-of-havin'est thing you ever did see.
- OSM exists to record and map facts, not to dictate them. If some people call it that way, than it should be recorded in the database, it's not about personal preferences and politics, we shouldn't decide if the name is right or not. If you read the linked forum thread you can see that it is purely technical, about how we should record it in the database and when (now vs when and if it will become official)
  It's a bit annoying here that a lot of people misunderstands this, and comments recommendations with near zero osm mapping experience, this is about how to map a thing on OpenStreetMap, not about politics.
  
  I could imagine Trump deciding that a random bird needed to be named after himself, and inaturalist having a forum discussion about localization etc. It's probably the same kind of debate here
  
  How does OSM deal with Arabian Gulf / Persian Gulf? I’ve only ever seen it referred to by the latter name by western sources but only the former name in Arabic over here.
  I’m well aware that the name “declaration” of Arabian Gulf was a political move in the 20th century, but I’ve never seen the name Persian Gulf in Arabic. Never.
  Just curious.

I think we should just ignore anything that comes out of this admin to the greatest extent practical. Don't give them legitimacy.
- Legtimacy? The guy won the popular vote. Like it or not, legitimacy there is.
  
  He only won in one country… I’m assuming that the dozen or so non-USians on the web are allowed to use OSM…
  
  Do you like the taste of boots better on a rainy day or on a dry, sunny day?
  
  Yes...that's why we call them "Freedom Fries".... riiiight...
  The idiot president of one country can call it whatever he wants. But it doesn't make it internationally recognized.

Just call it the Gulf of Mexico and be done with it.

It is a necessary discussion for the OSM project, and it is quite reasonable the way it's been developing.

Looking at a map, it would really be best named the Gulf of the Americas.
But otherwise is this reminiscent of Erdoğan's decree changing the name of Turkey to Turkiye.
A map should show the established name, i.e., the most widely understood designation, the one that enjoys the most consensus, including among specialists, historians, and so on. In a sane world, dictators do not get to wake up one morning and decide to change our maps.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico.
- reminiscent of Erdoğan's decree changing the name of Turkey to Turkiye.
  America doesn't hold sovereignty over international waters; at least, not without blatant displays of toxic macho force.
  Gulf of Mexico. If need be, use and report ONLY the common Spanish name used by regional leaders. Fuck 45.
- Different situation, I'd say. You get a say how your own countries, cities, etc get named. No one is forced to accept it, but it's a matter of international respect to do so.
  You don't get to rename a geographic feature. Much less one that's outside your borders.

Why? There are commisions for that. E.g. the United Nations Group of Experts on Geographical Names (international), the United States Board on Geographic Names (USA) or the Permanent Committee on Geographical Names (UK). Just follow the lead of one of these. There is no need to further complicate stuff.
- @menemen @Kalcifer OSM follows on the ground rule,. not just what officialdom says!
  
  What the hell is "the ground rule"? Naming is artificially defining things and as that basically arbitrary.

I suggest renaming it the Gulf of How Does This Help Grocery Prices Again?

Seems idiotic to me to discuss what some nutter suggested no matter their current job title. Everything in the world has been named already geography wise.

Only time I deadname.

Looks like the thread is gone now, what was the discussion like?
- The thread still works for me.
  
  Oh I see the issue
  The link in the post is fine, the link in the post body goes to a "page doesn't exist or has been deleted" message because of the period at the end
  https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/gulf-of-america-gulf-of-mexico/124571
  vs.
  https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/gulf-of-america-gulf-of-mexico/124571.
  Thanks :)

I think the discussion there is quite reasonable given the circumstances, and official_name:en-US once the GNIS updates is the correct way to go until people actually start calling it the new name.
what a stupid timeline this is
- The problem they are addressing right now is that "Gulf of America" is not an equivalent name, as "Gulf of America" can and will only apply to the waters next to USA states, so it is a regional name, official or regular.

34 comments