Anarchists and Marxists throughout the ages

Fuck leftist unity, if leftist unity means sacrificing the revolution for some some tyrant to twist class consciousness into a "dictatorship of the proletariat" im not playing along.
DEATH TO REACTION, DEATH TO DECEIT, DEATH TO TYRANNY
- Left unity is a lie to use anarchist labor into making their own graves when the state-based socialists get into power.

This meme is from a movie based on the Kangoroo Chronicles books. Atleast the original german versions are quite funny

The People's Front of Judea vs the Fucking Judean People's Front
- Anarchists have different goals than communists and use different means/strategies to achieve those goals while using different modes of organization. Just hating capitalism is not enough of a basis to just gloss over those things.
  Apart from certain instances when the goals align like antifascist action, international solidarity or support of prisoners, why would working together / doing unity actually be beneficial to achieving anarchist goals?

I wish it was this but instead its constant infighting. Btw im a socdem(socialist if tou stretch the definition), tear me apart lol
- I was a socdem once. My elders told me I would move right when I paid taxes. Now, I'm "friends" with a kangaroo until the revolution or something. From what I understand, the kangaroo believes in a classful, stateful communism.
- Sure, this guy thinks socdems are socialists, everyone point and laugh!
  (It's not your fault that all the other liberals bully and gaslight you, we accept you as the only good kind of liberal ❤️)
  
  Oh no i meant that as im a socdem but if we had that system properly in place and it didnt work i would support trying socialism. Theres extremely little data about any proper socdem, socialist, communist government in the world that actually functioned(mainly because of the us and ussr).
  
  we accept you as the only good kind of liberal
  Speak for yourself only.
  
  we accept you as the only good kind of liberal ❤️
  Good enough for me as another socdem 😂

I was reading George Orwell’s hommage to Catalonia the other day and was just shocked by how brutal this was.
For context Orwell served in the POUM (anti-authoritarian marxists) in the spanish civil war against the facist-conservative-feudalist camp. However over time the liberal bourgeoisie and the Stalinist side of the republic (anti-facist forces), allied themselves together and started brutally repressing the Anarchist and Anti-Stalinist Marxist Factions. They basically handed the victory over to the facists by purging the left.
- The testimony of Paul Robeson before the HUAC, after he was snitched on by George Orwell.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmFjjaFNHKo
- The fascists won because
  They had more foreign aid from nazi Germany and fascist Italy. The luftwaffa especially was a key advantage for the fascists as they had air superiority and were able to bomb republican positions with little cost. If France, the UK and the US had a backbone and sent aid the Republicans would have won.
  They had more military expertise and discipline. Pluralism and anarchism are great in peace time but you can't win a war with them. The anarchist system was a wonder to behold in Catalonia, but they were never going to be able to spread it to the rest of Spain because they were never able to win a battle after the opening skirmishes in aragon. Say what you will about the communists, they had discipline and had proven there system can win a civil war in russia. If only they had a trotsky and lenin to competently lead the fight against fascism.
  Did the communists go too hard on repressing the anarchists? Yes
  Did the communist have a valid reason to suppress a movement about not following orders and leadership during a war? Yes
  
  They had more foreign aid from nazi Germany and fascist Italy.
  Misleading half-truth. Franco received copious amounts of logistic support from Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy while the US and Britain went out of their way to ensure that the Republican side couldn't receive the same. This forced the Republicans to accept poisoned "aid" from Stalin, virtually ensuring eventual fascist victory. Even so, Franco's fascists had a hard time achieving any of their objectives.
  They had more military expertise and discipline.
  Another misleading half-truth. George Orwell himself expressed a wish to join an anarchist formation, not because he shared their ideology, but rather because (in his view) they were the most dedicated of the combatants on the Republican side.
  Also see what George Orwell had to say about the numbers of defectors they received from the fascist side - so much for your vaunted "discipline."
  Did the communist have a valid reason to suppress
  How would a tankie even know what the word leadership means?
  
  Ignore that the Ukrainian Black Army was pretty helpful in beating the White Army and only lost after the Red Army had finished all of its other opponents and decided to focus all its efforts on beating its former Black Army allies.
  Seems like there is a bit of a trend of Marxist-Leninists thinking their anarchist allies are prime for a knife to the back
  
  I would very much recommend reading Orwell’s Hommage to Catalonia.
  Especially the Appendixes. Even though written before the war even ended he explains quite well how the arguments you make were quite meticulously crafted by the republican government’s ministry of propaganda, and broadcast to the communist press worldwide through soviet intervention.
  At the end, Orwell comes to the chilling conclusion which is actually fairly common amongst historians, that the Stalinists saw the worker controlled revolution of Spain as more of a threat than both the bourgeois state of things and the Facists. Hence why the allied with the bourgeois liberals and rolled back the revolution.
  Here’s a quote
  Except for the small revolutionary groups which exist in all countries, the whole world was determined upon preventing revolution in Spain. In particular the Communist Party, with Soviet Russia behind it, had thrown its whole weight against the revolution. It was the Communist Party thesis that revolution at this stage would be fatal and that what was to be aimed at in Spain was not workers' control, but bourgeois democracy. It hardly needs pointing out why 'liberal' capitalist opinion took the same line.

This thread:

Not true. The left are always fighting. Always disagreeing methods. If the left would be one strong front we would actually achieve something and fight nazis better.
- The problem is trying to group vastly different ideologies such as Marxism and anarchy as one "left". You can't reduce political/social ideologies to a one-dimensional slider. Maybe if you project them on an axis that represents some "issue" they might fall close to each other, but they can also be at the opposite ends depending on how you choose that axis.
  
  Marx was pretty anarchist compared to most people these days who call themselves marxists.
- Nazis are a tool against communism. If you fight nazis you exhaust yourself as intended.

Tankies are not that honest.
- And there comes the infighting lmao

I mean, at least they're up front about it. If a Nazi is breathing, they're lying, but I've had commies straight up tell me that I'd get the bullet too.
- Lol, came here to say the opposite. Communists will talk about left unity until they have enough power to get rid of their "friends"
  
  This discussion is the most boring, larpiest shit ever, neither communists nor anarchists are anywhere close to power anywhere in the western world, get your head out your ass.
  
  I already posted this elsewhere in the thread but i case it hasnt been seen yet, I think this illustrates your point well

Can we focus on the common enemy for now? Can we all agree that of there is going to be a repeat of a dynamic from 100 years ago, it isn't likely going to happen real soon? Just seems like a waste of energy at this point of political reality.
- Anarchists and State Communists do not have the common enemy as both have many differing enemies.
  
  Fascists and capitalists? Those are the enemies I see right now, and it is going to take a lot more revolutionary energy (and time) to defeat them. I am someone with a foot in both Anarchism and Communism. I'm not "choosing a side" in some fight that we will only get the chance to have after we defeat capitalism! I've got criticisms and admirations for how both types organize, but I can't stand seeing people waste their energy tearing down comrades when there's actual work to be done.
- “Can we focus on our mutual enemy?”
  Says the person planning on murdering anarchists if they ever get their way.
  
  Get a fucking grip.

Yeah, friends with reds. Do all the hard work for them lazy asses to be backstabbed in the end.
- The reds where I live come to rallies to recruit people into a very cult like group that constantly demands money from it's members, to sell expensive tickets to meetings and their newspaper, even when we make a point to say no stalls are welcome and to not profit off of our work. They're very icky and I feel very bad for the students they recruit because they get all the flack for being duped.
  
  Yeah we have those people too unfortunately.

Pretty much. We can dismantle capitalism together. But you better believe we’re building a socialist state for the transition.
Sorry. I don’t think y’all are necessarily wrong, but your goals are better implemented over a century than a decade.
- Nah mate, the way we defeat capitalism specifies on what we end up with, and if it is done with anarchist methods, there isn't going to be a state. And if we don't follow anarchist praxis, then we're not "doing it together", are we?
  
  We’re going to do it by setting up parallel institutions. The Fred Hampton model of providing services now through organization. By showing people that we can provide better organization.

Yes, Uncle Makhno, we will give you the bullets you wanted to defend against the Whites. Shoots the black brigades in the back

Does the movie actually have a social democratic Koala bear, or not?
- The second one does (according to Wolfgang M Schmidt).

Yeah, what's a little authoritarianism between friends?
- Guy who wants everything labeled and documented, because it will be easier to do sweeping economic reforms later
  VS
  Guy who is into good vibes and not rocking the boat, but if you harsh his mellow he'll start breaking anything that looks expensive
  Who would win?
  
  Instructions unclear:
  Have autism. Labeling and documenting everything with the hopes to do a sweeping reform are my good vibes.
  This boat been rocking since before i was born.
  Collective improving of society when?
  
  anarchism is a bit different than breaking things… however whenever there’s a riot, there’s a newscaster yelling “it’s ANARCHY in the streets! pure anarchy!”.
  
  I think history has shown that authoritarianism tends to be pretty successful, not that that means it will continue to be so. But even if that wasn't the case, if we only cared about what succeeds we'd all be deliriously happy with capitalism, wouldn't we?

Truly a lover's quarrel
- Communism has no love for anything or anyone but itself.
  
  I'm getting the same impression of anarchism from this thread.
  
  Nah, communists and anarchists are definitely crushing on one another and would be down to sloppily make out when given the chance :3
  It gets a bit tough in the immediate post-revolutionary period though due to our differences, but as long as ML's aren't in charge I'm sure we can get through it together

my enemies enemy is my friend
- If for example our enemy is america. Are you saying russia is our friend? 🤔...
  
  it’s a figure of speech
- Not if your enemies enemy is also your enemy, you dope
  
  it’s a figure of speech, not a rule of logic, you wonderful person

The only commie not plotting to murder you when your back is turned is a dead commie. Leave them in the ground with their Nazi pals.
- dude, no communist wants to kill you. talk to a doctor.
  
  Literally every time communists have won, they’ve turned around and killed anarchists.
  So fuck off, tankie scum.