do you think the framework laptop is a good long term investment?

Hi, Framework laptop owner here!

I love my laptop. I got it back in June (13th gen Intel) and have used it near-daily ever since. It's got a nice build quality, I like the way it looks, and the modular slots are a nice concept (though I haven't seen a need to swap out mine- I elected for 2 x USB-C and 2 x USB-A. You also need to pay attention to which ports go where because not all the slots support USB charging). I bought the barebones laptop, and added my own RAM and SSD to it which was significantly cheaper than getting it from Framework. I currently dual boot Linux Mint and occasionally Windows 11 and have had no significant issues with either, but there are a couple of little annoyances with Mint- the light-sensor to automatically adjust the brightness and the brightness keys conflict, so one or the other or both may not work correctly.

To your real question, is it worth it? Honestly, if performance is your sole metric, then no- there are cheaper alternatives out there for comparable performance. The premium you pay for a Framework is an investment in repairability and customizability- investments that may not pay off if the company doesn't exist in the long term. All the promises and commitments in the world to letting users have the right to fix or modify their own hardware mean nothing if there's no one to supply parts. I was aware of this before buying mine, so I was fine accepting that risk- after all, at one point in time Tesla was risky too but now it seems they're poised to be the charging standard for EVs- and there are a couple of higher-ups at AMD who like the concept and are invested in Framework, which means it may be around for a while. But that's still something you should keep in mind.

That said, you said you were looking for a $500-ish laptop, and are now asking about one that will cost you over double that? It's not for me to tell you how to spend your money, but it sounds like you saw a cool idea and want to jump on the bandwagon. You should be extra sure that what you're looking for fits your needs within your budget and you're not just trying to "keep up with the Joneses."

TL;DR: If you have the money, and are okay with the risk of a small company existing long-term, and it has the performance you need, then yes, I think they're good buys.

To be honest you probably won't save money as you'll be more likely to upgrade regularly. I bought my Framework 13-inch last year and already bought a gorgeous new matte screen for it, and I'd been eyeing upgrading the mainboard with the new AMD one now. In the past with laptops I'd hold onto them for years until they couldn't perform, and now I'm considering upgrading my device a second time within only a year?

I really do love my Framework, but the easier upgradability makes upgrading more likely, which means more expenses - unless you can restrain from upgrading more often than you would on a laptop. Since budget seems to be a concern for you this may be worth keeping in mind. On the other hand though, I'd be concerned about how long a $500 laptop will last you anyway (the ones I used for years were more like $1200).

One final thing - some parts can't necessarily be carried over when upgrading to a new generation. For example, to upgrade to the AMD mainboard I'll also have to buy new RAM as the generation upgraded to a newer variant. If I want to use my old mainboard as a home server, I'll also have to purchase replacement parts for what it loses in the upgrade (new hard drive, new expansion ports, cheap case). It's great if you had an existing need for a home server, not so much if you didn't. Since I hate throwing out electronics I'll end up buying more to keep it operational, even though in practice I won't use it very much.

TL;dr - Framework makes upgrading and reuse cheaper and easier, which if you're like me makes you spend more money and upgrade more frequently.

Hi. Let's set the table here. Context: What future advantage or benefit do you expect to get by investing?

• Your budget was initially $500.

• The absolute cheapest you can have a brand-new complete Frame Work 16 is $1,621 and 5 to 8 months (Ships Q2) assuming you get the cheapest of everything and don't purchase secondary storage. You will have a low-end laptop with the ability to trivially upgrade it later.

For an additional $1,100 what do you expect to gain? In reality you can get an equivalent performance for $200, so the question then becomes $1,300 for what?

For $2,187 you can have an equivalent to this $1,100 ThinkPad that will likely last you 7-10 years unless it breaks first. What are you investing in for $1,087?

For $2,734 and ~8 months, I can have a high-end laptop, not the most expensive options, but my personal preference to tide me over for 10 years. Is whatever I'm looking for worth $2,200? Possibly.

• For hardware I can have schematics to, after signing an NDA.
• For hackability.
• For a laptop I won't void the warranty for fixing.
• For never having to remove 17 screw, 5 stickers, 5 more screws, an excessive amount of plastic tabs, and possibly adhesive.
• For almost indefinite access to parts. Parts that won't disappear from the market in 1-3 years, unless the company goes under. (Yay Cali for the 7 years of parts... we'll see how toothy it is and how long it can withstand legal and technical sabotage. Like Apple's software locks.)
• For a laptop with parts I like. (AMD open-sourcing like mad-lads, but not quite FLOSSing.)
• For a company that I can trust for a decade before they see the dollar dollar bills. Like Google, Facebook, Reddit, etc.
• For sustainably sourced parts.
• To support a company that won't put me through a hoop circus just to tell me I have to buy a new product because they screwed up?

If I could get it in 30 days, maybe. If I have to wait a financial quarter, or 2, and a half... maybe I'll wait until they ramp up production, and see what innovations they have in a year. (Related: The week I decided to buy, was legitimately the day they opened for Framework 16 orders, which I would've sworn was Framework 15. Must be losing my mind. In any case, maybe I'll still get the 13 and save $500.)

Is it worth it for you? Depends on your financial situation and what you value.

framework is VERY worth it.
modular slots on the side mean you can choose your inputs and where they go.

everything inside the laptop is easily replaceable so if any individual part breaks you can replace it instead of the whole laptop. you can also easily make upgrades if better hardware comes out instead of waiting for a newer model if one ever comes out.

bought a refurbished 5 year old Thinkpad via Amazon for $150. put linux on it, no regrets

i was planning on getting a new laptop cheaply for about 500ish

What are you hoping to do with it? I got a used Thinkpad T480 that was like new for €180 and added a couple of upgrades to it (1TB NVMe, 64GB RAM, Intel AX200 Wi-Fi card) that cost me €137, meaning a total of €317, and I'm very happy with the laptop right now, it's very responsive with Arch Linux and an i3 desktop and I think this baby will be good for many years.

i was planning on getting a new laptop cheaply for about 500ish

You should plan for what you need, not for what you're willing to pay. If you need a mobile workstation then this 16 inch laptop would be too large and heavy. If you aim for a desktop replacement, then a 13 inch laptop might be too small (docking stations exist, but still ...).

The Framework laptop is a nice idea, though. But to be honest: how often did you change the components of your laptops before? One usually changes the SSD and maybe the RAM or the battery or - if you're really adventurous - the heatpipe and/or the fan. All of this is already possible with most common laptops. If you're unsure, get a ThinkPad.

No.

I don't trust a single modern platform to last long enough to justify an investment - the company will be acquired and shuttered or the base platform will be upgraded and the current deprecated. The company today can full-throatedly promise you the world, but they know they won't be here tomorrow to answer for those promises and there are no consumer safeguards in place to hold the future leaders accountable should framework show profit potential and therefore become a target of acquisition to exploit that potential or to squash competition.

Framework is a fun, marketable idea, but Phonebloks / Project Ara me once, shame on you...

For me the deal breaker is to wait for so long before getting it. They have to step up the production. I'm fine with waiting for one month and can understand. But, the actual waiting time is ridiculous.

I'm seriously thinking about investing in one..I really like the idea of being able to upgrade and change the system and I/O ports. I also am beginning to think I want to switch to Linux over Windows as it gets more and more invasive.

For 1600 hopefully you get a frame and a long term use repairable machine you can upgrade as needed for years.

I'm interested in a framework laptop for the environmental perspective, but I also think a pre-owned high end device would be faster and with smaller impact.

You can look online at what the upgrade parts cost. If you were upgrading to the AMD main board you're looking at $450-$700, versus $1200-1550 buying it new. The Intel i5 components are similar but i7 are a bit more expensive. Thus far they have been consistent about releasing upgraded components. You are locked in to buying from them though - so if they stop releasing upgrades you're out of luck.

If you don't need the latest and greatest, going used is going to still be a better value proposition.

Not trying to poopoo on anyone here, but it seems neat... But at double your budget it's just a neat toy. Can you afford that? If so, hell yes.

Otherwise you can find second hand laptops with great specs and upgrade that your self for cheaper.

I wish I could pull the trigger on one of these, but here I am just surfing eBay lol

Simple answer yes long answer maybe

The only downsides of framework that I have heard about are all software related bugs, meaning it just needs an update once a fix is released. As an example I heard it had some power management issues where the expandable slots drained the battery even is sleep mode, not sure if it was fix yet, but regardless it still sounds like a solid investment.

I've had mine (first generation 13" model) for over a year now. I'm very happy with it, and I intend to make it last me through university (3 years) and then some. I would consider it a good investment for me.

For me, it's looking to be a good choice. I enjoy hardware hacking/tinkering so, the 16 inch is going to be a great platform for me to tinker on (planning to extend the hinges and put a bunch of fun stuff on the top/kb area.

It can be a long term investment in the same way a car is a long term investment - you can tune it up over the long term to extend it's life but at a certain point you'll likely have to replace some key components. The theory is that the cost of those repairs will be less than buying a whole new laptop though.

I've been happy with mine for a while. I've had some minor hiccups, but I blame myself for those because I choose to run arch on the thing. The swappable ports are a game changer for me, but that depends on the user.

When I bought it I didn't need a powerful laptop, but I may in a few years, so it made more sense to buy something for a bit more upfront. The upgradable mainboard is a crazy value add.

I've also been the unfortunate owner of multiple laptops that became unusable because of a broken part that was impossible to source for replacement.

For me it’s the only laptop that might entice me from leaving “the dark side” (Apple).

Would then install some Linux distro on it though.

I'd get a cheaper laptop for $400 or so (Walmart/BestBuy have those with decent specs), add in some more RAM and swap the NVMe. True, no Coreboot (wait, do you get Framework laptops with Coreboot?), but otherwise better value for the money

Hi. If you want to look for a new laptop, you can also try out Tuxedo laptops: https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Notebooks/Alle.tuxedo

Their laptops are a bit cheaper and also repairable, starting from 850 EUR (8GB RAM, no Win license, etc.) They assemble laptops, you specify components to your needs.

I'm a happy owner of Tuxedo InfinityBook 15. The most important is that they use normal generic power supply (not some proprietary one that is hard to replace) with an ability to charge from 65+W USB-C connector. Battery preservation bypass mode is also possible in BIOS settings. Their keyboards are also high-quality, replaceable and can have a custom layout. The screen is also high-quality. Initial setup is easy af. They maintain their own distro, which is quite good on its own, but the hardware is also Win-compatible. They also provide 5% discount for students.

(note: not sponsored)

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

https://m.piped.video/watch?v=u01AbiCn_Nw

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

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I seriously looked at them, but in the end, it was too expensive, especially over last years' models on sale- which were also very repairable. Not quite as much, but damn close, and with a dedicated GPU and better IO.

I like what they are doing, but they aren't quite there yet. The best long term investment IMO is a PC, since it can be easily upgraded independent of any one company. And the parts are much easier to trade, resell, etc.

When my current laptop from work runs it's course then I'll ask for one of these with a GPU. My current one I can change RAM and SSD. But later on I can't just get myself a GPU, DP connector, another USB-C instead of USB-A, LAN connector, memory card reader etc etc. I also think that if I already upgrade the RAM and SSD and then want to do the processor I shouldn't have to buy a whole new laptop. Options that allow you to bring your own RAM and M2 SSD are pretty few.

Just saw a video on YouTube where someone built a cyberdeck using the framework mainboard and accessories. Had me really intrigued that you can buy into a laptop ecosystem that basically enables hacking, too.

Warning: This comment contains small sample sizes.

In my adult life, I have owned two laptops. Both were bought brand new, both were relatively high end machines that cost more than $1000 each, plus accessories and the maximum extended warranties they offered. Both lasted 8+ years in service. The second one (a 2014 Dell Inspiron) is still in service, though I need to upgrade the OS on it.

Both machines required warranty service fairly early in their lives(the Dell egregiously so; very long story very short, they sold me a lemon and after replacing practically everything in it at least once they eventually replaced the machine outright) and received repairs/upgrades around the 4 year mark. The Gateway got its fan cleaned and the RAM replaced/upgraded from 1 to 2 GB. It also required frequent adjustment to its display hinge. It was running okay if slow by the end of it; a Centrino Duo running Vista was kind of sluggish in 2014. The monitor died in a way I couldn't fix, and replacements were unobtainable, so that's what finally did it in. The Dell got a fan replaced, the battery replaced, and the HDD replaced/upgraded to a SATA SSD. It is still running its originally installed 16GB of DDR3 RAM. It's slightly sluggish running Windows, but feels very responsive running Linux. I intend to keep it in service until Linux Mint doesn't support it or something breaks that I can't fix.

On both machines, the I/O didn't age particularly gracefully. The Gateway only had a VGA connector well into the era of HDMI and DisplayPort, the Dell has USB 3.0 and no USB-C connectors, no Ethernet and a proprietary barrel jack charger.

Both machines showed scuffs and scratches by year 8 but the chassis held up and were/are still serviceable.

Given my history with laptops, I see a Framework as pretty much the same "investment" that my Gateway and Dell were. I would not anticipate upgrading the mainboard; I don't think they'll keep making mainboards compatible with the current issue chassis a decade from now, and the chassis will probably be ready for a replacement by then anyway. But, I anticipate replacing the battery, SSD and probably a fan or two at the 4 or 5 year mark, likely out of warranty, and it looks like Framework would be above average for that.

My next laptop is likely to be a Framework simply because they're one of the few companies that A. still exists and B. hasn't pissed me off yet.

Since no one asked... What are your use cases? Do you need a discrete GPU? Something lite? Something with lots of ports?

If you can afford it easily and used 500 bucks as a random number sure no problem, but othewise I don't think it a Framework is a good idea.

I've thrown away so many laptops over the years. I do sometimes reuse the windows license

No.

For it to be a good investment it’s value would have to go up over time or drop at a slower rate than other comparable things.

A mac is a better investment (but still not “good”) not only because they tend to hold more value over time but the used market has higher volume so there’s less chance you need to price it low or wait a long time when you’re ready to sell.

If you’re worried about the value of being able to fix it, spend less than your $500 budget on a used t480 with the processor you want, upgrade the ram to 16, 32 or 64gb, install at least one ssd and be glad that there are literally millions of inexpensive spare parts on the market and will be for at least a decade.

What framework does uniquely offer is the ability to change your complement of ports. That’s either a useless novelty or a powerful tool depending entirely upon weather you consistently swap them out and can find all the ports you need as expansions or not.

Is it worth it to not be carrying around some dongle? I don’t know.

E: the processor to get on that t480 is one of the intels.

Seems a little overpriced to me for a laptop when you can get a steam deck for 600 or a used thinkpad with very nice specs for 100-200$. This laptop has some neat features and if you have 1k to spend on a laptop I guess why go for it, but if you just want a device to do some basic computation work you can find more powerful laptops for much cheaper.

Is it really more modular than a ThinkPad or even professional Dell? I have an old Dell and finding replacement keyboard for it on ebay was cheap and easy. Same with battery. Changing keybaord/cpu/RAM is super easy, you can do it yourself. Bonus is that parts will be available for a very long time, there are many providers and surplus stock. Framework is nice but can you really be sure that in 5 years you will still be able to find parts easily?

Laptops are not long-term investments. Hardware innovation makes them obsolete almost as fast as phones. Whenever some new OS security feature comes out that depends on BIOS or chip capabilities then you need to swap motherboards (and often memory) which is the bulk of cost. Or when a new USB format comes out. Or whatever is the "flavor of the month" improvement in GPUs, Bluetooth connectivity etc. The only scenarios in which extensibility really makes sense would be SSD size, maybe battery or RAM. But if it costs double then you would be better off buying a new laptop now and then another in a few years, instead of paying up front for in order to "maybe" be able to swap some of the components later...

Module laptops are a niche gimmick and a waste of money.

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