If Project 2025 becomes a reality. Would you fight in a civil war?
If Project 2025 becomes a reality. Would you fight in a civil war?
114 comments
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In case people don't know what Project 2025 is.
Here's the document:
AT LEAST READ THE FOREWARD. It very meticulously lays out their 4 goals:
- Restore the family as the centerpiece of American life and protect our children.
- Dismantle the administrative state and return self-governance to the American people.
- Defend our nation’s sovereignty, borders, and bounty against global threats.
- Secure our God-given individual rights to live freely—what our Constitution calls “the Blessings of Liberty
In plain language they want to:
- Effectively make LGBTQ+ persons illegal, unable to marry, adopt, or even exist openly, nationally ban abortion, ban education about black history and systemic racism;
- hamstring or eliminate a bunch of government agencies like the Department of Education, the EPA, the DOJ, Department of Homeland Security, and to eliminate many positions within the federal government or install loyal puppets;
- close our borders completely, pull out of NATO and the UN, invest heavily in oil, coal, and natural gas while divesting in renewable energy and removing environmental regulations, and exert extreme control over tech companies and universities;
- create school voucher programs which very much are to allow parents to segregate their children and use tax dollars to fund conservative, religious, private schools at k-12 levels, and eliminate social welfare programs. Also includes the contradiction of "champion the dynamic genius of free enterprise" and "include antitrust enforcement against corporate monopolies."
The whole thing is full of conservative buzz words, "anti-woke" rhetoric, and contradictions about free enterprise while wanting to exert control over people and "big tech."
But it's also dangerous because they're going to attempt to consolidate power to the next Republican president. There are complicated and far-reaching consequences to the things they're proposing that would take an academic paper to get into. For example, Ron DeSantis just signed a bill making lab-grown meat illegal because of the "global elite." It doesn't make any sense, but it's part of the reactionary, anti-leftist, culture war bullshit the Republicans are on right now.
That summary should be enough to show why this is so dangerous.
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Here's the education of the guy who heads the think tank that made this bullshit up:
Roberts earned a Bachelor of Arts degree in history from the University of Louisiana at Lafayette, a Master of Arts in history from Virginia Tech, and a Ph.D. in American history from University of Texas at Austin.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Roberts_(academic)
So basically, a history professor with 3rd rate qualifications from 4th rate universities.
No experience or knowledge in politics whatsoever.
If this is the garbage that actually sparks off the next US civil war, I will lose my fucking mind at the stupidity of it all.
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I'm on board with bashing project 2025, but I don't think I'd call those "4th rate universities," at least not UT Austin
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If you take them at face value, 1-3 sound like positive goals - I know they've been complelty twisted into terrible shit.
Here's what I belive they should be.
- I don't care what kind of family you have (lgbtq++ or not), but children need to raised properly. While there's a million ways to do it, the "ipad" kid isn't one of them. To me "Centerpeice" means creating an economy/socity where people actually want to raise kids again - from better living wages, reduce the cost of good, housing costs, proper heath care, and work schedules that allow the parents to actually raise the kid. A stay-at-home parent should be optional for the family, thats not so easily acomplished in today's economy
- There's certently an issue with our goverment administration, from the billions unaccounted for at the pentagon to the town not-elected sherrifs/officals who have zero accountability. That has to be fixed.
- Defend the boarder, only let people in legally, and don't let randoms from any where in the world. If people really are sneaking in by the truck load like they say - what's stopping someone with a major crimal record of violence from enterering the nation and attacking people. Inaddtion, if we're going to do major humanitarian projects to help refuges, we need to focus on our own homeless and struggling citizens as well.
- Take religion out of the conversation. But, for the most part we do have a lot of freedoms - if you can afford them. In theory, you can live where ever you like, work where ever you like, marry whom you like, and say what you like. In practice, it's difficult to break generational poverty. People can't move because they need the money to support their family. Let's sat your pop was making enough money for your whole family 10 years ago, but now your pop got sick and can't work, you and your siblings still in school, and your mom is struggling to find anything more than $10/hour because minimum in her state is still $7.25. Government aid is doing just enough for you to keep pop alive, you to eat and keep the house for now. Be careful if drop out of school to start working full time, they'll drop the aid by double whatever you make so you loose the house if you work, but can't save for anything if you don't work.
Not really sure where I was going with 4...but that needs to be fixed.
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Wow. Thanks. With your summary and the titles alone I can make sense of that manifesto:
- Define families properly to include all colours of families. Make them (the people) more important than corporate greed and capitalism. Make sure their children have access to education. And care for them if their parents aren't well off.
- The state has no business dictating people's reproductive rights, choices in gender issues and religion. Instead they need the state to provide infrastructure to them, healthcare etc to enable them to achieve what they want individually. People need the freedom not to get shot on the streets or at school by some lunatic. And democracy in the USA is broken. Governance by the people needs true choices. Less lobbyism, gerrymandering and childish behaviour in the senate.
- Make good choices in a globalized world. Sustainable politics. Trade and be friends with your neighbours and other friendly nations. If you want to be strong, you better have friends and also show them they're worth something to you.
- Freedom and Liberty? That's a pretty straightforward proclamation to celebrate LGBTQ+ people, women etc as god made them. I'd say that extends to anyone and all the diversity and richness of life. And include welfare programs for the disadvantaged, as God and the founding fathers wanted equal opportunity. And the USA currently only cares for the rich. Contradicting any of Jesus' teachings.
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Sry, I think the innuendo got lost here. I was more holding up a mirror to their double-speak and trying to point out that if you really liked those goals, you'd take a different route. The conclusions these people jumped to, contradict each other and what they're supposedly achieving.
I think if they were for families and liberty, they'd do roughly what I said... Making me think that's not what it's about. For me they don't need to come up with wrong reasons to justify it. They could just say 'we hate people and freedom' and at least that'd be honest and free of contradictions.
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Did you read the document? Those four goals are all double-speak for taking away rights, dismantling government agencies, promoting christo-fascist ideals, and controlling the American people.
You literally don't have to take my work for it, I've provided you with the document.
All of what you said is exactly what the Democrats are trying to do, but getting blocked by Republicans at every turn.
But I guess I shouldn't be surprised that authoritarian doublespeak actually works as it has on you. There's a reason 1984 sometimes feels way too real. You're not willing to read.
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What's with the Republicans, don't they like their country and democracy any more?
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Nope. They found out most folks are cool with the gays, educated people found out the "blacks commit crime" is actually "poor people commit crime", everyone uses thc, we're increasingly done with religion, media is representative of more than white cowboys who can only grunt "I'm manly!", and we are friends with aethiests, hindis, muslims, and jews.
Therefore we are obviously insane and have to die.
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They never really did.
It was all, always, just about themselves. They claimed to love the country because they just saw it as a rightful extension of themselves, and they claimed to love democracy because they just saw it as the process by which they got what they wanted.
Now that they're faced with the fact that the country necessarily also accommodates other people and that democracy means that other people can get what they want, they have no reason left to pretend that they ever really valued either one.
So they're instead diving headfirst into xenophobic fascism, in the hope that they can recreate a world in which the country exists only for them and the government serves only their interests.
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Democracy is only good when you're getting what you want.
When you're losing, its the Tyranny of the Majority, and it has to be stopped at all costs.
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Before the civil war southerners talked shit about northerners as too comfortable and effete to fight. We know how that worked out. All fascists are bound to lose eventually. The question is how much pain and death will they cause before being suppressed.
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Most rural towns would be dead in a month if a civil war happened. All those towns produce is meth, teenage pregnancy, and fibromyalgia disability. When the Dollar General runs out of food they will start killing each other.
I can see a few banjo clans attempting to invade cities and set up roadblocks.
The reality of it all is that rural/conservative America is already involved in a proxy civil war with the rest of america. They are using the Republican politicians as weapons to steal our tax dollars and funnel it into their failed existence while they pretend their gasoline corn is something good for the world.
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I think it's oversimplifying to say all small town people are Republican or that small towns don't produce anything of value. For example people talk about Texas as a red state but millions of people there vote Democrat. (And plenty of Democrats aren't anti fascist) But you're right that in actual shooting war maga Republicans won't do as well as they think
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Before the civil war southerners talked shit about northerners as too comfortable and effete to fight.
After, too. The shit talking never really ended. It's been 160 years of smack.
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I'm old and out of shape, so I'm not the ideal soldier, but if the conservatives push that shit and there's an organized resistance by sane, compassionate people who care about people, I'd try to do my part with them.
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Have you seen the average repub?
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They look like a baby Jabba the Hut and talk the same.
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I mean, I'm not that old but I am out of shape but it doesn't take a lot of effort to use a sniper rifle. I can just sit on a hill and pick off every red flag wielding red hat I see.
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I did an indoc for scout snipers. The shit is no joke. Sitting on a hill is easy. Crawling to that hill and remaining in that position over the course of days with limited food and water, nowhere to piss, no shelter from any effects of weather or bugs or anything, that's the hard part.
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Maybe on the weekends. I work during the week. Depends on if I could get flexible scheduling and HQ had Wi-Fi.
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All right Johnson, HR has decided that you can pick one day a week to war from home, but you're only going to get halftime pay for that.
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No, I'm gonna sit back and laugh as a bunch of guys who couldn't schedule a meeting at the four seasons try to overthrow the world's oldest democracy.
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Do not underestimate Trump. The last time people did that he won the damned election.
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Do not underestimate Trump.
You can make some serious missteps by overestimating him.
But look around. Cop riots on ever campus from Columbia to UCLA with pigs firing tear gas and clubbing professors indiscriminately. All because some kids said "Free Palestine" on the lawn. There's this sense that things will be so much worse under Trump, when its all spiraled completely out of control six months before the next election.
Win or lose, this is turning into a country by, of, and for cops. They own our world, no matter who sits in the White House. The only real difference is whether the President eggs them on or looks the other way.
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We're a constitutional Republic, dipshit. We're not even a true democracy and calling us the oldest when there are PUBS older than our country is ridiculous. We are YOUNG.
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According to wikipedia:
Under a minimalist definition of democracy, rulers are elected through competitive elections while more expansive definitions link democracy to guarantees of civil liberties and human rights in addition to competitive elections.
Feel free to edit if you disagree.
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I'm honestly getting the fuck while I can if he gets elected.
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Getting the fuck what?
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Out ... Getting the fuck out. Mobile keyboard missed a word, but I find it too hilarious to correct 🤣
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Physically? I couldn't do it, not anymore. Too many health conditions.
But anyone bringing trouble to my street or doorstep, is going to have a bad day.
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I can only do so much due to disabilities, but I would support all resistance to a fascist Nazi takeover
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You can pilot the flamethrowing robo-dogs for us.
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Sure. I have a lot of issues with the US but if fascists overthrow the constitutional order every American has a moral obligation to restore the rule of law.
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I am a veteran of two wars, first priority is getting my kids out somewhere safe. Doubt I would come back after that. Will cheer for you all, but with republicans existing the USA just doesn’t even feel worth fighting for.
Every single person who votes Trump is a traitor. Yeah, you, that random person (not the guy I am replying to) who is reading this and voting Trump. Fuck you, traitor.
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Nice try, glowie!
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This is the most fed post I've ever seen
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I don't know what that means...
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That's what a glowie would say!
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glowie (noun, internet slang, far right, derogatory): A government agent or informant entering an online space, aiming to surveil extremists. Derived from Terry Davis stating that it was like CIA agents glow in the dark.
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I'm chronically ill, while I would certainly help in a capacity which avoids direct combat situations; I still would help those on the left combat the fascist Republicans!
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hmmm, if I live there, I would probably try to move out.
or go to a state where this shenanigan doesn't get acknowledged. not really sure if state laws were meant like that.
maybe this is project 2025 is a multi-tier attack with one layer in the form of fear mongering?
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Don’t openly agree to commit crimes on the internet
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Fair enough, do you think a some person would fight in a civil war?
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It will mean the experiment failed. I'll go back to Europe where my ancestors came from, in the blink of an eye, and watch with popcorn as this place turns into Christian Iran
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If trumps presidential immunity rule happens, Biden should delete trump before his term ends.
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Just like in bush v gore, Supreme Court may say immunity is allowed, but only for this 1 case.
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Would you fight a civil war?
With who? Against... who? Like, do I just go down to the city center and start swinging punches? Or are we saying there's some kind of mobilized resistance movement that's led by... uh... who, exactly?
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Yes
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Whats that?
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Demographics are trending away from conservatism and since they are almost to the point where they can no longer win elections, they want to install a permanent conservative dictatorship.
This has been a long time coming, I remember hearing on the radio in 2008 that projections showed conservatives couldn't win elections if current trends continued for ~20 years, and they did. In conservative speak they call this the "great replacement theory" but it's standard population math that a freshman math major could perform. They frame in a way to make stupid people think something nefarious is occurring. In reality, conservatives are the shrinking minority that is attempting to cling to power.
Just look back to the last time a conservative won the popular vote. I believe it has been over 20 years. The electoral college can only carry conservatives for so long.
To paraphrase a famous quote, "At some point conservatives will have the choice of abandoning conservatism or abandoning democracy." Which do you think they'll choose?
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Which is why it pisses me off when people go, "Third Party/Not Voting". Other elections, fine. This election? Dems need to win. Period. They need all three branches of government and enough of a margin to prevent getting Manchin'd. Anything less means there will not be a second chance
Destroy the GoP first, THEN focus on smacking around the Dems
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The last was Bush Jr but it was narrow, there were two wars raging, and he was in office already. The last first termer was Bush Sr. That was 36 years ago.
Even the EC cant hold it much longer. A blue Texas means the odds of a GOP win become in single digit probabilities. Go to Nate Silver's site and play with the possible maps yourself.
Of course in an ideal world they would look at this and try to change to match what the population wants.
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It’s the logical conclusion of the insane unitary executive theory. Basically gives the president power way beyond what the constitution outlines that a sympathetic judiciary (what we’re currently stuck with) could enable.
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What makes me laugh is the idea that if Trump were declared dictator for life, how long do you think his life would be?
One, the man weighs 280 lb in his 70s. He does not have long left.
Two, the best way to become dictator for life is to be announced dictator for life. This second best way is to kill the current dictator for life and take his seat. How long do you think it will take all of the people that follow Trump for money to realize that putting a bullet in his head would get them more money?
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I'm a pacifist, so no, I don't think I could live with myself if I took another person's life, unless it were in self-defense. I would nope the fuck outta the country though, and relinquish citizenship.
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I read that costs money to renounce your citizenship. How wild is that
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I think like 20% of the country would gladly murder someone for Trump.
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Nope. I might buy a shotgun though.
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No. If the bad man gets re-elected I’m taking off.
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I don't think it would be very civil TBH
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If there was a charismatic leader who had a bold and progressive path to taking back our country from these tyrants, then yes.
If it's just some average joe with nothing but ideals and armchair thoughts then I'm not following that guy.
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It's never gonna be just one singular guy, when it is and things seems to be too good to be true it's because they usually are. Resistances would start to build as necessary, organically and autonomously, likely around wherever the threats are. You gotta look out for the one guy when someone tries to tie those pockets of resistance together.
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As much as I pretend to be one, I'm not really a fighter. I think this war may not need me to be one. The time to respond has already begun, and while front-line protests aren't my strong suit, supporting protestors in my community is the place for me right now. If a greater conflict escalates, I'm probably not like doing the active fighting, but I can sure as shit help with supply lines as well as helping people who need to recover in the backlines. If I ever need to be in a fight I intend to be prepared, but there's a lot more to do in a war than fight. And by the time anything like that would happen, I hope to have a resilient community around me who can support each other through hell. The fight's already begun to an extent, and it's important to remember that our best place may be "back-of-house" so to speak.
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I do not know what that is, but I would fight in any war to protect my family.
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Summary: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
In their own words: https://www.project2025.org/
The actual document: https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf
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I've been wondering this since Trump's policies started fucking with the country.
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Doubtful. Too easy for me to leave. My wife holds dual citizenship, my kids are in the process of getting it now, and the country she is from would easily award me an indefinite work visa based on my skillset. Even if I couldn't leave, I won privilege bingo so not really in any danger.
You people have fun murdering each other
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No. But i am not from the vsa.
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Will you send socks?
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What do you mean? Literally sending socks? Or supplies and assist one side.
I think i totally would somehow assist the civil war at the side who don’t support trump, yes. He is, in his ignorance and egalitarian attitude very dangerous not only for the us but for the whole world.
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114 comments