'Method to His Madness': Sanders Warns Trump Is Setting Stage for Election Denial
'Method to His Madness': Sanders Warns Trump Is Setting Stage for Election Denial
"What Trump is doing is laying the groundwork for rejecting the election results if he loses," the U.S. senator said.
I mean there is a fucking valley between now and 2020.
First, he's not the President. That gave him an overwhelming advantage in trying to steal that election. He held power.
Second, we're looking out for it this time. And its not like Trump is actually off the hook for the last go at it either.
So yes, take heed and pay attention. But also, the difficulty of what he frankly almost go away with the first time (if he would have been able to get Pence to play ball; if the inssurectionists would have strung Pelosi up on a gallows, where might we be?). The difficulty of stealing an election while not in power and while we're looking for it. OF course he's going to claim it was stolen. But fuck him. We don't have to regard his claims.
He is still holding power though. Look how he was able to block aid to Ukraine for 6 months. Or how he tanked the border bill that actually had everything Republicans were asking for.
He is not a president, but he still controls people in powerful positions.
Exactly, it’s not going to come from Trump himself. Trump will Truth “it was rigged” and kool aid drinkers around the country in positions of power will manufacture the proof, and go along with every step.
Yes, This is important to acknowledge. He also has an extremely complicit supreme court who are a bit over their handle bars and may suffer consequences if he isn't elected. So yes.
However.. If its clear, and I do think it will be, that he hasn't won, he flips from being an asset to being a liability. As they say, if you are aiming for the King, don't miss. They won't have the ability to throw down smokebombs (read: misinformation, lawsuits, etc) in the way that they did around 2020.
What Trump offers is a path to power. If he can't/ doesn't win the election, his only offering is moot. And the bodies along the way are there to see (look at Pence, Giuliani, etc.. Trump uses people and dumps them).
Its something we need to be 100% paying attention to. But its a far far more difficult lift this time around than last.
First, he's not the President. That gave him an overwhelming advantage in trying to steal that election. He held power.
He isn't, but a huge number of sympathetic judges that he appointed still are. As if an activist, conservative Supreme Court.
We need both the Presidency and majorities in Congress. All but one of the moral Republicans who sided with the election results last time have lost their primaries to pro-Trump candidates; there are none left in Congress to side with Democrats against Trump-backed activism.
he has cult members in multiple states and at the local level who are in charge of elections or ballot certification or somewhere in that process; and judges at all levels, some of whom have already ruled in his favor.
it is unlikely but still a non-zero chance that enough bullshit gets piled on the process in enough places that neither candidate gets the minimum 270 electoral college votes required when they're officially counted and certified at the start of the next congressional session.
if that were to be the case, then congress votes to choose the president (house, each state gets one vote--dc gets no vote; 26 to win) and vice president (senate, 51 to win).
I mean its gotta be close for that to be relevant. I sure af hope its been sobering to BM how well Kamala has been doing post Biden. Trump is actually deeply unpopular and there was no reason for the Democrats to have ever not been leading in this election. Biden was a completely unforced error.
So I think its realistic and necessary for Kamala to have a convincing victory, and I think she's on the road to demonstrate that.
The biggest difference is that right now, Trump is not the president. In the week before J6 when it was all shaping up, it was clear he was going to try to do everything to not leave power. He should have been arrested on January 7th. That all is what it is.
Worth noting, though, Trump’s plan to steal the election is at a more local level than before. Focusing on election officials and people that certify results. I could see a scenario where a state is won by shenanigans.
Remembering the 2000 election that the Supreme Court stole from Al Gore, there were counties in Florida that were ordered to do recounts, but didn’t start the recount for weeks because they knew it would only benefit Gore. In the end, Gore lost because the recounts took too long and the partisan Supreme Court decided they had to stop.
Lesson here is that local officials can easily make an impact in the final results, and republicans have no ethics in the matter.
The main concern is if Trump convinces enough electoral vote officials and they refuse to certify results, we will be in unprecedented territory. Democrats have been known to take the knee in favor of remaining civil (see Bush vs Gore), so there is understandably a lot of uncertainty and why Harris needs to win by a HUGE margin
He's already convinced enough. Rolling Stone identified at least 70 election officials around the country that are 2020 election deniers. In addition, 3 of the 5 member Georgia Board of Elections are election denying Trump supporters that are already changing rules to allow and support challenges this November. Trump called out all three by name at a rally there and one was even in the front row and briefly spoke at the rally.
This time all he might need is a couple of dodgy decisions in some swing states. "Oh my the Dems are cheating well the wonderful governor of state X can overturn the election results and the delegates can vote for who the think the people really want."
What I expect to happen is this:
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Donald will double down on the only strategy he knows, and will chew his way through a series of increasingly brief campaign managers whilehe tunes out while he leans into personality attacks and conspiracy theories, galvanizing his MAGA core and alienating an increasing share of Republicans
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He will continue to chase moderates towards Kamala, expanding into the right, eventually even to include a small handful of politically savvy MAGA types compelled to denounce him to save face
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Election night is a drubbing in the popular vote with record turnout and a similar map to 2020 with maybe even one or two new blue states
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Donald will trot out a litany of accusations of interference and refuse to concede, his base will further contract
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MAGA protests will quickly turn violent and Donald's refusal to denounce his few remaining supporters will pretty much sever MAGA from what's left of Republicans
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a few MAGA election officials delay certifying anywhere possible, exhausting all legal and some illegal means of avoiding certification
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At least one or two of these delays will result in a standoff between county and state government or even state and federal
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All of this likely set against a backdrop of sporadic but increasing violence and rioting by the remaining hardest of the hard core MAGA, with right wing militias playing a large role and even intervening on behalf of at least one of the aforementioned standoffs at one point or another
I'd be curious which of those elements you find to be the most far fetched. I know in their totality they sound like a crazed paranoid rant, but given our recent history, and the insane trajectory we are on, this doesn't really seem like that big of a stretch to me.
I dont think any of this is unreasonable, but I honestly think if he would have done some of things last go round, it probably would have been a successful coup.
Democrats in particular, but also the entire intelligence state was caught completely flat footed to information that was widely available on OSINT or other very leaky data channels.
I can't imagine they are as naive as they were four years ago? But then again.
Points one and two, I agree. Point three, we shall see but things seem possible again. Trump is deeply unpopular.
On MAGA and MAGA protests.
The energy simply isn't there for Donald this time. This is a key feature 2020 had that the current climate doesn't. White nationalism and BLM were going at it in the streets, and the energy of the Trump movement gave groups like patriot front, the 3%'rs, PB, etc a place to hide. If you are going to keep something like that going, you have to put points on the board. You need W's and he lost big time in 2020. Its the nature of all movements that they wax and wane. I mean look how BLM collapsed after 2020. You need big groups to hide militants. That just is not going to happen this time. Its a different environment and Trump has a core group of supporters that will show up, but it will be nothing like we saw in 2020. This exposes the militant elements in greater relief.
Congress and capitol police won't be fucking around this time and DC will be on lockdown. Every paper clip is going to get a high degree of scrutiny. A fake slate of electors isn't going to make it through, and a state refusing to certify is going to get clapped. Of all of these, I think they are all reasonable, but this is the only one that gives me real pause. Our system is very diffuse and yeah, there are a lot of wackos. Its not that hard for one idiot to throw a wrench in the works.
Again though, the problem Trump has is that he's not in power. SO what if something takes longer to figure out? Biden or Harris will still be in office at that time. Thats the real changemaker. A smoke bomb or confusion of results doesn't work in Trumps favor they way it did in 2020.
If anything I'd say its time to get back on the intelligence channels and start reading the tape to keep an eye on things. I could see some militants disrupting some stuff here and there, but in general, the MAGA movement has fizzled. It doesn't have bodies in the streets like it did in 2020, and Trump would need that for the above to be effective.
yep this is bang on. they have been election deniers and pro-revolution for 4 years. they have no faith in the US democratic system any more and will do anything to get power
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These are all good points. We should also be vigilant, as you highlight, but especially because of the lower court appointees, board of election positions, and others that have been packed with bad faith actors preparing for this moment. It's McConnell's last hurrah.
not like hes off the hook for the last go
oh? sure, we still talk some shit, but he's not going to see consequences. even the participants who broke in and stole information from congressghouls and set bombs in the capital with the explicit goal of overthrowing the government didn't get as much prison time as a POC with a joint in alabama or a kid who threw a rock at a cop's riot shield. seems like a pretty clear message.
I think the big issue here is the right wing news ecosystem and their viewers. They consume so much propaganda and believe it wholeheartedly. It's almost like Trump isn't the problem, the youtubers are...
The orange felon is doing felon things WITH fellow wealthy accomplices. Money can get a lot of shady/illegal shit done.
There is a reason countries used to line up seditionists before firing squads.
Thanks Bernie. I love you bro. But this isn’t exactly news.
You'd be surprised, there are a lot of people on here still who don't believe it. I've called it out and had many people argue back saying "they can't do that", "they won't do that".
A lot of people still have their head in the sand over the rise of fascism in this country.
But ... but the already tried to do it? Jan 6?! WTF!
he’s speaking to people that don’t know and out of the loop.
Trump will deny it for sure.
Even if he wins, he'll rage that there was tampering, because it should have been 100% Trump, in his mind.
Lol, denying an election that hasn't yet. In other words, he's already accepted that he lost.
He was complaining about it even when he beat Clinton.
He just doesn't like elections. All his friends treat elections as a formality and he's wondering why he can't do the same thing.
I was fretting about the ground he was laying during the pan. Fuck him. It didn’t work then and it won’t work now. Unless they get to the SC, then we might be fucked. But the public is so aware of how corrupt they are that I’d expect a reverse J6, just without a bunch of stupid people committing acts of violence.
If the SC tells us to throw our country away we don't have to do it.
Just like last time.
And the time before that when he actually won.
I love Bernie but it’s a no shit Sherlock moments for most of us here. I just visited rural Ohio and Trump is god sadly and no questions asked….
I just hope everyone gets out and votes we need every single one of them this year
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