If only people my age actually fuckin' turned out.
They should have, but it probably wouldn't make a difference. The superdelegates controlled the nomination.
They also control who gets elected. The popular vote for president is such a joke. It’s amazing how many people think that voting for a president is actually their choice; that every vote counts. Sure, you could argue that
those Super Delegates arethe Electoral College is supposed to vote the will of the people, but I would counter with we shouldn’t be where we are politically right now either.Shit happens, and this is what we got.
People like Bernie Sanders will never win an election for president; especially a troublemaker such as he, nor with the way the system is currently set up. And no one is going to change the current system, because that means giving up power. And if there is one thing governments do not do: it’s give up power.
Color me cynical all you like, but I double-dog dare you to prove me wrong.
Edit: I’m an idiot and got my terminology mixed up. 🙈
The superdelegates controlled the nomination.
Not really.
I was so distraught and in denial about Bernie not getting the nomination that I wrote him in. Sorry I think I helped Trump by doing that.
Nah, man, I don't think any of us really were expecting the result we got. I protest voted for fuckin' Johnson of all people in the 2016 General because I was certain that my vote wouldn't mean jack. I mean, I was in a safe blue state, so it didn't, but God, the feeling in my gut watching the results come in, knowing that my fellow American citizens were fucking vile enough to elect Donald fucking Trump, and that I hadn't even cast a vote in (meaningful) opposition? To at least add a little more voice to the ridiculousness that was the electoral college overriding the vote of the people? It hit hard.
I did too
Was your district one vote away from voting for Hilary?
If not, then your single vote did not have a measurable impact.
It took thousands of people, in a handful of very specific districts, swinging to Trump. He didn't even win the popular vote, he never has, and likely won't win it again.
Sadly, that's true if you were in a swing state. A lot of people didn't like HRC and didn't think trump could win or cared if he won, so they didn't vote for HRC and we got trump. I'm worried the same thing will happen again in 2024. Please people please, don't let it happen again. Vote for Biden whether you like him or not and we go forward from there.
Vote for the person you want in the primaries, then vote for the party you want in the general. Whether you like it or not, there are only two choices, R or D.
Remember, this is not just about who is POTUS-- it's about which people will be appointed to run all our government agencies, which people will be appointed to the Supreme Court and the Federal courts. That directly affects our lives. trump put 3 more right wing extremists on SCOTUS, and now it's 6 to 3 maga over progressive. If Hillary had been elected we would have a progressive majority instead.
Went to one of his campaign rallies before the primary in San Francisco. God was he an incredible speaker. You could feel the energy pulsating from those hands haha.
Yep. It’s unbelievable how so many people think that they can create change by staying home. It also blows my mind that so many people seem to always have so much to say…
But for some reason… only every four years. Never after elections.
It’s almost as if there’s an agenda to their need to convince others not to vote.
The real problem wasn’t an unjust primary, it was imbalanced media coverage and support prior to the primary. Debbie Wasserman Schultz wanted Hillary to win the nomination, and skewed media coverage in her favor. She stepped down after accusations, but only after the damage was done.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/us/politics/dnc-emails-sanders-clinton.html
Although there is a silver lining in getting 12+ years of Senator Bernie vs. the maximum 8 years of President Bernie.
It wasn't just Debbie, she just took the fall, it was the democratic party doing what's best for the democratic party. Bernie wanted to tear down Super PACs, better to lose than to let him win and ruin that money. I think we forget that even when one side is likely to be drastically better for us, that doesn't mean that either side is always necessarily good.
Oh I’m certain there’s plenty of corruption in even the most altruistic facets of politics. You’re right that she took the fall, but I also read plenty of concerns from other members of the DNC that challenged her firm stance against Bernie. To your point though, she wasn’t likely acting alone.
I think more democracy is better. Which post 2016 the Democrats did make the primary more democratic. Sanders still lost fair and square both times. Even in 2016 Sanders didn't face anything substantially different than Obama did in 2008. By rights the Democrat party doesn't have to let anyone run as a Democrat either. If they feared him they didn't have to let him run. Hell, till the 1970s they didn't even hold primaries as we recognize them. So your claims don't really make sense.
I don't have any direct sources to link but I remember seeing some pretty appalling omissions of Bernie Sanders during the 2020 primary.
They'd literally put up a little infographic on the screen that would say something like
Democratic primary front runners:
1 Joe Biden
3 Pete Buttigieg
4 Michael Bloomberg
And it was like, WTF! Bernie Sanders, at #2 would just be completely omitted. I saw many news sources doing this kind of thing.
With that, and seeing how they reacted to help the rich stop losing their asses when the hedge funds were getting raped via their illegal shorting of GameStop stock solidified for me that all media is controlled by the rich and they're controlling all the narrative - to the detriment of the 99%.
She didn't even really fall. Clinton gave her a job on her campaign immediately after she stepped down as DNC chair. She couldn't even wait until after the election to bail her out. She had to immediately give her a job she clearly made up for her (I think it was something like Honorary 50 State Outreach Chair), just to give Sanders voters a giant middle finger before the election.
It's what stripped away any vestige of credibility I wished to grant NPR at the time. Was aghast at the coverage tilted to kneecap Sanders.
Finally, a meme I can put to good use. Thank you.
Nice
Every generation of leftists has its moment of realization that electoralism doesn't work and that the state is not a neutral entity.
Electoralism doesn't work if you approach it as the end be all of all political battlefields. If you consider it one battlefield of many, from which you won't get total victory, but from which you can get substantial stuff, it's useful.
The SPD used to be radical, you know. All the social-democratic parties were.
Electoralism deradicalizes and demobilizes the working class, as the means become ends themselves. The politicians end up the leaders of the movement through their position as figureheads and spokesmen for "the people's demands. To be a politician you must strive to be electable. You gotta satisfy wealthy donors to finance your campaigns. This puts pressure on you to make your platform moderate. This is what happened to most of the social-democratic parties of Europe.
Furthermore, the structure of state and the economy means that the unelected state bureaucracy (such as the various managers and officials in the various governments and agencies, or the armed forces) can struggle against you and stifle reforms, while capitalists can use the threat of disinvestment, capital flight, and capital strikes to pressure you, seeing as how they control the economy and you rely on them as a politician to build roads, for example. This happened to the Labour government during the 60s and 70s. The state bureaucracy violently put down the Allende government and the Bosch government as well.
Finally, it accustoms the proletariat to place its fate in other people's hands. It disengages people from direct action.
<3
Hes older than both of the current ones no?
It's true that Bernie is old, but it's more true that he's old school.
Yeah. Way too old school.
Bernie Sanders rejects ceasefire calls, says Israel must defend itself against Hamas
Still has a better idea about what's going on than either candidate. He's one of the few senators standing up for the Palestinians.
Yeah but 8 years ago he was 8 years younger! Also a billion times smarter than the other candidates but no one seemed to care.
Sanders gets mentioned and ageism suddenly becomes acceptable.
F
But then I can't shake the feeling that after struggling to get anything done overnight in a hostile political environment, the very same bored and fidgety, easily-distracted, easily-manipulable potential voters wouldn't have shown up to support Bernie in the 2018 midterms.
"Consistency and perseverance are key, you need to vote in every election, from school board and city council on up, if just one day a year, maybe two", but then they groan in annoyed boredom, doomscrolling their cellphones with one eye, not even paying attention to you (or Bernie) anymore.
why is it bill gates xD
I don't understand, you guys aren't voting in local and state elections in enough. Would Bernie have the power that you guys think he would if he was elected?
Exactly. It's wishful/magical thinking on their parts. Republicans would have gone into attack mode on him same as any Democrat. He would have faced similar roadblocks with the same congress. But somehow things would have been magically different? How!?
The president is the most powerful office in the US government. But it's way more limited than people think. Biden could call for halting all aid to Israel tomorrow. And Congress could/would just ignore it. Same as they would if Sanders was in the office. Hell house Republicans are already campaigning on it. And it hasn't and isn't likely to ever happen. But somehow it's all Biden's fault? It doesn't make sense.
why is it bill gates xD
Sanders simply didn't have the numbers. And wouldn't have had the numbers, even if the DNC hadn't actively been backing Clinton and then Biden.
The 'problem' with Sanders is that he's a pretty solid democratic socialist. That's scary for a lot of centrist voters in a way that Trump isn't, or Mittens Romney wasn't. Is that dumb? Yes. But that's still the way it is. You can be angry about the Overton window moving to the right, but it has moved, and when you're looking at electability of candidates, you need to pay attention to it. You need to move that window left before the elections, and that requires a ground game that Dems simply don't have yet. (And may never have, TBH.)
Republicans have been moving that Overton window to the right for literally decades. The first concerted effort that I can remember was with Newt Gingritch and his "Contract With America", and then the Tea Party. We haven't had that kind of concerted effort from people on the left in the US, and we need it if we ever expect a candidate like Sanders to be viable.
(And really, Elizabeth Warren has nearly identical politics, but is less well-known as being on the left. She'd probably be a more solid choice at this point to capture centrists.)
Trump won bc he messaged outside the window, socialists don't win bc they never get promoted as viable, your just prepetuating the lie. Polling showed Bernie doing better vr trump. Everyone not a committed racist who voted trump did so bc he spoke about doing something novel, Bernie did better on that exact messaging.
And no, the DNC worked extremely hard to with a lot of impact to harm Bernie.
Bernie convinced me to change my registration from Republican to Democrat. I couldn't agree more with your message and I really wish Bernie would have had a fair shot in the primary. I believe he would have won in the general election and the country would have benefit from him.
Polling showed Bernie doing better vr trump.
Polling consistently showed Clinton doing better than Trump too. Before election night, odds from the best polling experts around put Trump at around a 20% chance of winning. In fact, before the Comey report, it was more like 95% that Clinton would win.
The problem is that people think odds are destiny. Yes, the odds-on favorite does usually win. But not always.
Get ready to have your mind blown. I was a lifelong Republican voter prior to Bernie and switched my registration to Democrat to vote for him in the primary. If he were to make it, he absolutely would have been my choice for president. Many of my friends at the time switched as well because we believed in his message. However, after seeing the coordinated effort from the DNC to shut him out in favor of Hillary, I ended up voting 3rd-party. I'm still registered as a Democrat; however, neither of the current top two parties will likely get my vote again. I believe you underestimate how wide an audience can be intrigued by something different than the usual corporate options.
I lived in prime MAGA country in 2016, and they knew I wasn't with them and were suspicious until I said I was a Bernie supporter. They said they respected him for being consistent and for his hatred of billionaires and support of the working class. I honestly think that if it had been Bernie vs. Trump we'd be in the middle of the former's second term right now.
The thing with Bernie is that he was able to drum up a passion and level of support from the people around him that I haven't seen anywhere except the Right. Now I recognize it isn't specifically him that did it. He helped and acted as a conduit and would have made a great President imho. What really brought people together was their anger and hope for true positive change.
I've been paying attention and people are angry now. Angrier than they were back when Bernie tried. I sincerely hope that the anger I am seeing and hearing, not only on the Internet, but also in stores and while working, is something we grab onto. Those of us who lean left, in comparison to the right, are too patient. Too inclusive. Too willing to shift uncomfortably and not speak up.
Get Biden in to buy time. Then take that time, stay together, and collectively plant a foot in some strategic asses.
The problem with Bernie was that while he had very vocal followers with a lot of passion, he didn't have a lot of them. His numbers stayed pretty constant as other candidates dropped out of the primary races. (I was, and am, a Sanders supporter.) It was much like Trump; Trump consistently pulled about 30% of the primary votes. Trump won the nomination because you needed a plurality to win the nomination, and too many candidates stayed in the race too long. In the Democratic races, other candidates dropped out earlier in the races, and their supporters went to Clinton and then Biden, rather than Sanders.
I agree with you that people on the left seem angry right now, but my fear is that they're angry with Biden, angry over Israel, angry over an economy that feels bad, and plan on taking their anger out on Biden rather than looking at this strategically. I'm a cis-, het-, middle-aged white male that likes guns. I look conservative as long as I keep my mouth shut. I know a whoooooole lot of people that don't have that luxury, and I'm scared for them.
Elizabeth Warren simply does not have the speaking skills and engagement skills to be successful at the next level of politics. She's a great like Secretary of something or a head of a department, but that's probably as far as she's going to go.
The Dems could have rallied with Occupy like the Repubs did with Tea Party, but instead shit all over it.
Bernie never wanted to win. He bitched out at the last minute.
