Do you think people would be okay with 'Recall' if Apple did it?
With the recent WWDC apple made some bold claims about privacy when it comes to so called Apple Intelligence. This makes me wonder if they did something to what Microsoft did with Recall feature, would people be less concerned and to an extend praise their effort?
Do you trust apple with their claims?
I would love this this feature to be implemented in IOS. This could be used for several applications like pushing more people to Linux.
You had us in the first half, NGL
Do I trust them? Sure, I guess, when it comes to privacy from other entities.
Do I trust that I will have privacy from Apple? Hell no. What does "local" even mean on an iCloud connected iOS device anymore? Because there's nothing on that phone Apple can't access remotely if they want to, and if any of the AI cache is backed up on iCloud, that's not local anymore.
Do I trust them with the data they're absolutely gathering? No, but I don't trust anyone with it. But I also think that data would be relatively safer with Apple than their competitors.
If Apple announced Recall? Apple wouldn't announce Recall, that's the whole point. Apple wouldn't be so brazen and stupid to push a tool that is so obviously invasive and so poorly implemented. Apple earned its trust by not making those mistakes.
But if they did decide to say fuck it and implement something like Recall, of course people would trust them. That's what trust means: consumers take them at their word. But if it's as bad as Microsoft's Recall, Apple would burn all that trust when people found out.
People don't believe Microsoft because they have long since burned any trust and good will for most of their consumers. They have proven time and time again they don't give a shit about users' wants or needs, and users have felt that. So when they announce Recall, they have no earned trust. No one believes their assurances. There's no good faith to cushion this. And it turns out everyone was right not to grant them that trust.
Does that mean I'd ever use an Apple device? Hell no. I value my privacy, but I value it on my terms, not Apple's, and I will never use a device that creates privacy through taking power from the user.
Apple now has encrypted iCloud backups so they can’t see what you backup to them. GrapheneOS is obviously better but for an off the shelf OS ios ain’t bad.
creates privacy through taking power from the user.
What do you mean by that?
I'm pretty sure they mean how Apple won't let you install 3rd party apps and stuff, under the guise of pRiVAcY.
Do I trust them? Sure, I guess, when it comes to privacy from other entities.
Do they not send everything directly to ChatGPT? Like, that logic is not broken with that for the Apple users?
So you use Android? Or Huawei?
Surely not.
Probably an Android phone that has been degoogled or installed with another OS, is my guess.
I use GrapheneOS. What's it to you?
Almost like mobile operating systems that are open source so I can check for myself that they're not spying on me exist or something.
Bruh what even is this comment? Huawei makes sense, but what's your deal with android? The whole point of android is that it's customizable, if you want privacy there are more than enough options.
Apple's PR is better. With Microsoft all news titles were like "OMG Windows will take screenshots of all you do and send it to AI", and with Apple it's more like "Apple is carefully adding AI to their products, respecting user privacy as they always have been".
Of course, when one looks into technical details they would find that MS Recall is strictly local and runs only on special hardware that people don't even have yet.
Apple Intelligence does send your data to cloud and scans everything you have in Apple ecosystem, not just screenshots. Of course they say it's done in very privacy respecting ways, and provide a lot of technical information to back this claim. But at the end it's closed source and is subject to change at any time.
Having said that, Apple users are used to and value that Apple magically takes care of everything, so they are happy to pay premium for Apple's products whatever the company does.
Makes a lot of sense until the closed source affirmation. The source code of the OS they develop is closed source, but a lot of what they do is open source and independantly audited by experts, so there's that in the balance.
Windows is just a pile of trash.
What that Apple does is Open Source? This is the first time I've read this.
I guess there is a chance to see some of code, but I doubt about it being properly open sourced.
While we’re publishing the binary images of every production PCC build, to further aid research we will periodically also publish a subset of the security-critical PCC source code.
Source: https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute/
Not your keys, not safe encryption. As simple as that
Don't care if it's Apple, M$ or Google - non of them should do it that way.
I completely agree. I’ve started to migrate my work stuff to Linux to see if it will work.
I’m not hopeful that it will work, but the dev said I can try to use wine and that is not against their policy to do so and that I works but have to worry about an account ban.
So, let’s hope for the best.
I think the people who already really like Apple would be okay with it and find a million reasons to justify it. I don't think that's a good thing.
I'm sure we wouldn't stop hearing about how it was the right decision even if we weren't having a conversation about it.
Everyone suckles Apple's dick. Friends of mine were talking as if Microsoft has ended security and privacy, but are lapping up the Apple Intelligence crap
Do you trust apple with their claims?
No. I inherently distrust trillion dolllar tech companies in poorly regulated economies. They are able to get away with a lot of crap and they know it. That's how the Cult of Apple works. I would not be surprised when they violate their own privacy policy knowingly and structurally.
People.would be okay by getting fucked to death with a splintery rake if apple charged $999.99 for it.
No. The whole world turned against them in 2021 (I think?) when they were gonna have on-device monitoring for CSAM. They'd get run over by a bus for this too, same as MS.
It was a scan during upload to their cloud photos system. Everyone else does it on their servers, Apple was going to run the scan before so they didn’t have to ever have them. To not have images scanned before upload, a user would just not have to use their cloud photos service.
The messaging was really badly handled. They almost certainly just scan all the same photos on their servers instead now.
The perceptual hash algorithm was broken in hours, then so fully broken that modified images were visually indistinguishable from unmodified images, so you could send people images with hash values that match flagged photos.
Also, then there's the thing of the risk of various jurisdictions pushing for adding detection of other banned content.
yes lol. have you ever talked to apple fanboys? its a cult where the corporation can't possibly be wrong.
they would justify with flimsy justifications and hold their ground that its actually the best use of ai just yet.
That brings me to a recent discovery:
I got a text via matrix, my notifications dont show content, yet the „places“ app suggested a route to an address given in the message.
I checked and had no appointment or other text which the app could have read it from.
This suggests to me two things: apple is reading our screens already, our governments do as well.
Can someone confirm or deny?
Apple has been trying to be the next advertising giant. They’ve been growing their advertising revenue and plan on doubling it this year. They went from $4b ad revenue to $7.5 2022/2023. And if you remember correctly, that was right when you started seeing all their “apple cares about your privacy!” ads and got into it with Facebook. They’re not out here to protect our privacy. They’re trying to take the advertising revenue from the other ad giants and corner that market for themselves.
Think about it. They have gotten people locked into their OS/ecosystem. They basically hold the advertising golden ticket. They’re not here to make your digital life more private. They’re here to get your data for themselves, locking out the competition. They aim to bring more people into the gate and shut it behind them while extracting all of our advertising milk with their more advanced data udder sucking machine. The pasture looks nice, but when those gates close, the skies darken and the farmer corners you with that look in his eye.
I don’t know where that metaphor came from. But that’s how I see it in my head. The moo cow with the pretty eyelashes and the shiny bell around her neck is pulled into a false sense of security by the smiling farmer at the gate, but that shit turns dark real quick when she’s locked in.
Can't neither but it's sooo easy to achieve with telemetry.
Your friend searched for the place. Your friend send you (any) message. Anyone and their mother know you are affiliated with your friend. Said place is now connected with you.
That's why telemetry doesn't need to read your screen
It's weird to assume that OS doesn't "read" the notification content, because how else would it categorize them by priority, and provide smart replies and stuff.
Its like Apple runs the notification servers or something
That's the whole reason why I disabled the notifications for Lemmy app.
Thanks for offering your opinion. I find it weird to assume the worst at all times yet here we are.
My point is that it makes zero sense to use encryption on iOS devices at all if they read your stuff anyway, no?
I'm not sure I would use a open source Linux version of Recall, I think it would be like always sharing/streaming your desktop, so I think .bash_history is enough recall for me.
I would also allow an open source version of Co-Pilot because the AI snooping only happens within a single program.
Apple at least tries to explain what is happening, and while not always great, you feel you understand why they are doing something or implementing new functionality unlike Windows who just dumps this shit on you without your consent and then you have to learn 5 years later that they put absolutely no thought in why they were doing, especially thinking about your privacy. Anyway, I use Arch, btw. /s
Could they please explain why a laptop should not be able to scale content on third party monitors without lowering resolution? Why it shouldn't be able to connect to more than one monitor? Why we can't have a toggle for (insert random unneeded feature here, like only minimizing programs when clicking on the red x button that should close them). Why their tablets and phones aren't able to send things via Bluetooth? Etc.
It's closed source, so no way in hell
Apple fans will argue it is somehow better
Apple fans and people that fall for their slick marketing would
Apple fans would
In my opinion the problem is not who would agree/disagree with it, its more like the fanbase and marketing is on another level and most people would just not care as long as they have the latest iPhone with the latest buzzword functions and features.
I feel people are more forgiving towards apple. I dont have any study or anything to back it up, just can't see why the die-hard userbase of the most isolated and curated ecosystem would care about anything.
I found it really weird too, Microsoft pushing Recall, an AI feature, vs Apple pushing Apple Intelligence, an AI feature.. and only Microsoft got backfired.
Recall was set to be default on for everybody and to record everything in a database which is trivial to extract data from.
There's a lot of nonsense Apple is doing too (like the chatgpt integration) but they didn't put keylogger into the system.
Apple fanboys would.. other people I don't think so..
No
No, but if a linux distro implemented a local-only version of this, I would be interested in using it.
I honestly don't understand the use case. What do you find interesting about it?
My memory isn't perfect, it would be nice to have a second set of eyes, and I could describe things to it aside from knowing the exact words. "What was that website I visited within the last six months where I played an online game that was like snake but different?" or "What was that cryptocurrency i was researching which was touting it had perfect forward secrecy?" "Who was I emailing about the football game" etc.
One thing it claimed was the ability to rewrite copy. Basically finally an improvement over spellcheck which has been the same for like 20 years. Would be nice to have something better built into the OS in every text field.
You could also have stuff like suggestions in your terminal when you're starting to write a command based on what's in the man pages and the layout of your filesystem.
I never bought any Apple product and thought they were overhyped, so it might be easy enough for me to say, but no, I personally wouldn't have been Ok with it.
I can see more people begrudgingly using it if Apple did it though.
Nope, but I also feel like Apple would have it off by default, unlike Microsoft.
I would trust them more than Microsoft because at least they would actually store it encrypted safely and not just basic ACLs that are easy to bypass.
Even with a root shell on macOS you can't bypass certain things like access to the camera for example. You'd have to work way harder to access recall data, not in a way that malware can trivially access.
I still wouldn't use it though, because I think the whole thing is dumb and I don't need my computer to spy on me so I can remember what I did yesterday. I have browser/shell history for that.
apple fanboys. yes. the take it or leave it apple types would likely have a decent exodus. non apple users would not like but would not matter.
Yes. Their privacy policy is very clear. They’ve put so much effort into providing privacy features, well before every other developer in the industry, that they’ve built their customer base on it. The class action suit that they would face for compromising that policy would be massive, and they would hemorrhage customers. They have strong financial reason to maintain their word. If you ask for your GDPR compliant abstract from Apple, it’ll only include your name, phone number, and billing address.
From a security standpoint, the privacy features are top notch. They use 256-bit AES encryption for iCloud, iMessage, FaceTime, Apple Wallet, Find My iPhone, HomeKit, FileVault, Secure Enclave, and now Apple Intelligence. Apple operating systems use a UNIX kernel design, keeping the application layer independent of the operating system layer, allowing full sandbox control and requiring user authorization for any API access.
Plus, nerds love to try and find chinks in the armor. In the event of the inevitable vulnerability, Apple is always quick to release a patch.
Edit: You asked a question about Apple products outside of an Apple instance. Look for the ones with all the downvotes to get a real answer from Apple customers. PC/Android users love to condescendingly reply to and downvote Apple supporting comments. I think it makes them feel superior. Lol
They already did, Spotlight is Machiavelli behind the “walled garden”
You're saying this like Micro$hit isn't just going to revert back to recall being opt-out (or non-removable) in a few weeks after the outrage dies down
You got me at trust
Recall in principal is a cool idea. It is also one that M$ has not earned the trust for. I think Apple would be better received. I'm not sure I would like Apple's recall, but they have done more to foster trust than M$.
I am curious why you'd think that is a good idea. I find it absolutely useless, as anything that I'd like stored... We can already easily store. But recording EVERYTHING that happens in my computer??? What kind of data hoarding obsession is this?
That is a small vulnerability away of being the biggest mistake of your life, IMO.
Same reason file manager has a recents. It helps you return to previous work. Asking it if it remembers which paper had which conclusion or graph would make being a grad students easier. Perhaps it reminds you about some deliverable you promised in an email is due is three days. I see it as a good tool to organize productivity with. Like I said no one has earned the trust this software would require.
And Apple has earned any trust? Jesus christ people, like less than 2 months ago they were caught restoring "deleted" photos from iCloud to user devices hahahahaha. Of course fans were excusing them talking about disk sectors like that has anything to do with cloud storage being available accidentally hahahaha.
But yeah, Apple cult followers will find a way to justify surrendering even more freedom to Apple with this BS for sure. And they will be paying top dollar for the pleasure hahahaha.
I don't think Apple is planning that. For now they're trying the approach to expose metadata like email headers to their AI, but that such data has been already accessible to the search functionality anyway.
It's very different from Recall, which dumps screen capture of webpages and passwords into a database file that's only protected by access rights.