How does anyone believe in monogamy nowadays?
How does anyone believe in monogamy nowadays?
Not talking about being with one partner at a time. Talking about the idea of finding "the one" and being with them your whole life.
50% divorce rate. 97% of people (in the US) don't wait till marriage, so most of us have multiple sexual partners prior to the one we stick with. Many have children with more than one partner.
How can anyone look at the world and think, yeah, there's one that's meant for everyone and just one?
Also hope I don't come across disrespectful. If you do believe in monogamy, I am interested in hearing from you. I'm just buzzed and thinking about my own love life and being curt
Edit: Speaking to the idea that it's the "natural order" or default. Not that it can't work in individual circumstances, especially when we've been programmed for decades
That's not monogamy, that's a delusion.
Monogamy is "one partner at a given time".
The divorce rate is not 50%. It's closer to 30%, 40% at worst.
Monogamy isn't equivalent to lifelong partner.
Aside from which, even a 50% chance at your marriage being one that results in lifelong partnership with someone you care deeply about seems like good odds.
Also, the 50% statistic is from all marriages, not first-time marriages. The figure goes way up due to people being divorced, married, divorced again, ad nauseam. I remember the first-time marriage divorce rate being somewhere in the range of 27-33%.
Also out of that 33 I imagine a good chunk is people who were dating a couple months before deciding to get married, or those who got married because of an accidental pregnancy.
If you take first time marriages, where they were dating for over 1 year, and did not conceive a child until after being married, I imagine it's near 10%, maybe less, but I have no data to back that up.
So I am non-monogamous in that I have several sexual partners at any time, as does my wife (were also swingers), but she is absolutely "the one" and I absolutely believe in the concept of one person for life.
I do honestly believe in true love, a soul's counterpart in another, it just happens that my personal one is also kind of a slut, too. It's just another thing we have in common.
Looking at divorce rates as a bad thing is misleading, imo. A high divorce rate isn't necessarily bad. It's people escaping bad matches,. It's people learning and growing. It's people still chasing that special thing that makes them say "holy shit I've found them."
Worth noting that I think there are many great loves people can have, and I was deeply in love several times before I was with my wife. It isn't (and wouldn't have been for me) "settling" to marry one of those great loves. Your One is what you make of it.
do honestly believe in true love... it just happens that my personal one is also kind of a slut
I'm happy that I read this sentence in my lifetime
Looking at divorce rates as a bad thing is misleading, imo. A high divorce rate isn't necessarily bad
Oh absolutely. I don't mean to moralize or demonize the issue. I just mean that, seeing as how as soon as divorce became socially acceptable it shot up to 50%, I'm not sure how people can view it as unnatural, I guess.
Also your story is very sweet and every bit of what I want one day, so thank you for sharing. You have an interesting perspective
Same boat. We may have other partners, but we are each other's primary for a reason. Relationships come and go, but I cannot imagine a life without that woman.
Where's the 50% divorce rate from? I've heard this over and over for decades, but nothing to prove it.
An oft-cited APA/census study found that 35-50% of first marriages end in divorce. That number goes up for subsequent marriages (~66%).
I think it's bad reasoning to suggest that a 50% divorce rate has any bearing on any given marriage, though. People marry and get divorced for a wide array of reasons.
To me, what you're describing is exactly monogamy, but you're classifying it wrong. Sure, you have a lot of partners before you find your "the one". I've had 3 so far. But that doesn't exclude you from monogamy once you've had your first partner, which is what you brushed off in your first sentence. Monogamy is one partner at a time, not that you find one person at the very beginning and get it right the very first time.
The idea of finding "the one" is, to me, someone that I want to spend the rest of my life with. And it takes a long time to find that person. And there's more than one "the one" out there! I know that sounds contradictory, but come on, there's 8 billion people out there, any set of desirable traits you could write down are shared by who knows how many hundreds of thousands of people. So you date lots of people, get to know lots of people, and then when you find someone who checks all your checkboxes and who you can see living with til death do you part, then you stay with them.
One might say one person for who knows how many dozens of years could get boring, or that one person at a time is too restrictive. To them I'd say, that's fine, you're polyamorous or something of the sort, and that's okay. But to me, having one and just one partner is special. I'm entirely theirs and they're entirely mine (in a romantic way, not a possessive way), and that's just how I like it. I want someone, just one person, I can always rely on to watch a terrible movie with, always have a player two, always rant to or be ranted to, and so on. That's what makes it special. The exclusiveness is part of the charm, I suppose-- it's not just any old person they want, it's me they want. And my feeling is mutual to them.
I don't think I wrote this exactly the way I wanted it to come out, and I mulled over it a couple times, but I hope I got my point across. Everyone's different, and that's okay.
Life is just easier when you have a good partner who has your back. Its hard and requires comprising sometimes. Just make sure your comprising on the small things and its great.
it's not for everyone and certainly shouldn't be seen as the default or indoctrinated into people from a young age like it is right now. that being said, i'm very happily monogamous and couldn't imagine it any other way.
Fair enough! Also because of you I learned that yiffit exists!
nice! feel free to join if you're looking for furry content. but yes, i feel very strongly about equality for my polyam friends.
The divorce rate is high because of a small percentage of serial monogamists. Most first marriages don't end in divorce.
Got an uncle who is on his 7th "the one"
Wait WHAT? Its been outliers this whole time?
Not the greatest website but it summarizes things adequately.
Essentially, (in America)divorce rates steadily climbed until the late 1970s, with a slight dip in the 50s. Starting in the 80s, divorce rates started falling again, and have fallen all the way back down to where they were in 60s. It's a tricky thing to get a handle on though, because one reason divorce rates have been falling is because many millenials never got married in the first place, when compared to earlier generations.
Just because you don't see it around you doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'm from Portugal which has even higher divorce rates, and yet 90% of couples I know got together and stayed together and have absolutely stable family lives. The idea that it cannot be done(unless it's done with no effort) is the main reason most couples fail to do it.
I don't believe that it can't be done, it obviously can. There's just this idea that it's the natural state, or what humans are instinctively given to, and that just seems... incorrect?
If you're defining it as "is mandatory to shut down desire for other people after you pair up", of course is wrong. It's impossible.
What are you relying on for natural state? Other animals? They kill off other competitors. If humans let instincts guide their actions then there'd be more violence with emotions driving decision making than brains.
So I've reread this whole thread, and I do agree with you that monogamy is forced and unnatural, but I also accept that I am in the distinct minority there.
The important thing is that there is no one right answer. You find what works for you, and a partner who wants what you want, and you make it work.
The making it work is the key part here. I married my actual, literal best friend, and it's still a lot of work. A lot of talking, assuming good intent when they hurt you, and trusting them to care enough to have your best interests at heart.
It's not easy and you'll fuck up, and so will whoever you date, and that's okay. Life is about learning and growing, and we all, always, have more learning and growing to do.
Wishing you luck.
I'm glad you posted here, because I happened to notice while reading wikipedia that Spain and Portugal have the highest divorce rates on the world, at 84% and 94% respectively. Obviously your personal experience doesn't really align with this, but I did want to ask if anyone could help explain why the divorce rates are so high on the Iberian Peninsula.
The idea that it cannot be done(unless it’s done with no effort) is the main reason most couples fail to do it.
Strongly agree. But how does that idea take hold? Has Portugal always had elevated divorce rates or is this a recent development?
I also wonder if it has any relation to the legal status of marriage and divorce. Perhaps it's less costly to obtain a divorce in comparison to other countries?
Divorce rates relate new marriages and divorces. In Portugal divorces have increased but even more importantly, new marriages have dropped a lot. That is the cause of the high divorce rate.
As to why people get divorce I’d venture a guess of economic reasons. Portuguese are quite poor, particularly in the European context, and life has gotten even harsher this last decade. That breaks a lot of people.
Natality rates are also low. Fewer babies, fewer reasons to stick together.
Still, as I said, there’s no reason to be cynical about monogamy, love and marriage. Many people make it work very well.
2 partners seems like too many and 0 too few
Fair enough have you tried 1.5?
So I'm a queer woman and I swear ALL OF MY FRIENDS are some level of poly. Which, rock on! Good for them! But my GF and I are happily monogamous and can't imagine a future where we open it up. I have no shade, I've read the poly books, watched the open relationships YouTube and listened to the theroy, I totally understand where they are coming from and why it works for people. The divorce rate is a good enough example as any for why it makes people happy. Monogamy is not something to enforced or expected of people, clearly it isn't working for most folk.
But I also know any thing more than 1 partner just sounds STRESSFUL. Like, I always work myself up wondering if I am messing up ONE relationship, idk how y'all do it with multiple people to worry about. 😂
3 partners is easier than 2.
More partners means more eyes ensuring everyone's needs are met and everyone is being held to reasonable standards of accountability.
Also more people to suggest good restaurants!
So, I started dating before the internet. Yeah yeah, I’m old, I know. Anyway, I always had this feeling of what if my partner finds someone better?
Now with the internet people from all over the world are at your fingertips. Now, I feel like “this person could literally be with anyone in the world, but they chose to be with me”.
But, also, in it’s most basic form a relationship is a situation where you find someone, and decide that you can put up with their bullshit, and hope they feel the same. I’m old enough, and have dated enough to know. All those people that you think are hot. Do gross ass shit behind closed doors, or some embarrassing ass shit.
So, maybe you put up with her always wanting you to hang out with her while she poops. Meanwhile she puts up with your god awful laugh. Y’all do this because you know it can be so much worse, and besides the sex is good, and they have good taste in whatever interests y’all share.
And for those of you that say I don’t do gross, or embarrassing stuff. Either you’re lying or delusional. We may call ourselves “humans” to make ourselves feel better, but we are disgusting animals that have to learn how to act, and most of the time the training is incomplete.
Now with the internet people from all over the world are at your fingertips.
That only means more people to mock you.
Hehehe
I’ve been a house husband for the past almost 10 years. I get paid to cook, clean, take care of kids, and play video games. If I leave she’s stuck with a special needs kid all alone.
On the other side. I haven’t worked in almost 10 years so my resume is lacking. So, we definitely have reasons to stay together, and not fuck it up, but our situation isn’t typical.
The problem is not monogamy vs polygamy, the problem is to find the right person.
Also, it is not a matter of finding "the one". It is a matter of finding someone you can love. And then you need to learn how to get through shitty moments and love again.
I don't mean that you should stay in a toxic or dangerous relationship, but that it is easy to get angry and think that it's over with someone, but in reality anger and love come and go. The thing is to understand why you love someone so you can love this person again and again.
Now maybe some people are not like that and its good for them. But please don't tell me that I should love several people at once or that I should consider relationships like a consumable thing. I am unable to do those things.
Well, I just recently got married in July. We'd been together for 5 years before that point, we survived COVID in a rather stress inducing state.
- My wife works in banking, with secrecy requirements. I work in AV, testing equipment that records everything it sees and hears. We couldn't even be within earshot of each other. She was forced to work in her bed and I was forced to take up half the living room with 2 baker's racks of AV equipment. Still went through those two years being able to look back fondly at being able to take a five minute break to scream into a pillow and get a hug after a particularly stressful problem, meeting, or office politics.
I completely understand where you're coming from, but just like how you can't imagine a partner you want to spend the rest of your life with. I cannot imagine someone ever replacing my wife, and I don't even want to entertain the notion of losing her.
-
well what if it's insert_celebrity_crush_here?
-- that's not my wife, not interested -
well what if it's your wife but she never says no to you?
-- that doesn't sound like my wife at all, I'm not interested
We just mesh incredibly well. We both grew up in problematic households with a disdain for our parents. We both grew up poor. We both care more about financial security and safety than trying to get it all. I feel like we're a team, at all times. Not having her beside me would be like playing football with only half the players.
I will say, this is gonna sound weird but stick with me. Don't... don't chase a monogamous relationship.
I think too many people get hooked on this idea that you must have a partner. You must marry before you hit 35. You must fuck before you hit 19. Just don't think so hard about it. Geography, life events, mistakes, opportunities, are all at place with literally everyone at all times. COVID especially through a wrench in every life plan in America. I feel so bad for anyone who hadn't gone through college yet. Just... find enjoyment where you can and balance that with building your future and if both those points can be met with the same activity. DO IT. Whether it's a partner that you can't live without and you wanna keep, or a group you can't live without. You need both those points in life. Do whatever makes sense.
I guess I’ll bite.
I’ve been with my wife since high school and we married after 7 years. So all-in-all, in total we’ve been together 16 years and have one kid. After all of the time invested and my age now, having more than one partner sounds exhausting.
If I was able to do it over differently, I don’t think I would. I grew up catholic, so the idea of monogamy was part of my upbringing. But having had access to the early internet I was exposed to just about anything you could imagine. Having read and listened to many people talk about poly relationships in my younger years, while enticing to have more than one partner, it still sounded harder to deal with or navigate than one person.
Similar boat - wife and I dated in high school, broke up, ended up at the same college later on and now we're married with two kids (going on 15 years together).
I married my best friend and I don't need to worry about any weird landmines. No regrets.
I believe in monogamy, but not "soulmates" which seems to be what you're talking about, here. If you conflate terms of course you're going to wonder why so many people believe something... because they don't, they believe in the other thing.
My first several relationships were just trial and error of figuring out what works. I ended up meeting a widower and we both knew exactly what we wanted and expected in a partner and expressed it clearly to each other. We moved in together after just a few months and have enjoyed a beautiful life together.
"The One" is just a person that you can be happy with because you express your needs and they meet them, and they express their needs and you meet them. And you're both willing to put in the work to get through the times when needs can't be met.
It's working out fine for me 🤷♂️
Edit to add- I don't expect it to work for everyone
My wife and I have been married 14 years. I don't think she was "the one" and only woman in the entire world for me, but she is the one who was willing to work with me to build a relationship with each other.
Plus, it's fun to watch her get into things. Shes always trying to learn how to do something. Last year, she tried to grow a garden. It was a sad little thing, and we got a couple of vegetables that we could eat. This year, we set up a bigger plot in the yard, and she used the stuff she learned last year, and she grew so much stuff that we're basically fed for the next few months. We also got some chicks back in February, and we haven't had to buy eggs since June.
My wife and I started dating when I was 16 and she was 15. We have been together 37 years, married for 30.
I don't believe in the concept of "the one". I think when a long term relationship like ours succeeds, it's because there is something fundamental that both people have in common.
By fundamental, I'm talking about fairly obvious stuff like "wanting to put in the effort to be in a long term relationship".
I was watching something on TV with my wife the other day and a character said something to the effect of, "marriage means you standing at the sink having a shave while your wife sits on the can clipping her toenails".
I've always said that marriage is about making sure your spouse doesn't drown in the toilet while vomiting.
Also, as many people have pointed out, the "50% of marriages end in divorce" statistic is bullshit.
I never really believed in 'the one', but I met my wife when I was 27 and without being cheesy there was definitely something different between us from the get go compared to previous relationships (serious and otherwise) I'd had.
The definition of 'monogomy' is just 'being in a relationship with one person' though. What you're talking about is an idealised version of Romance which I personally don't buy into. It puts too much pressure on the idea of everything being perfect which nothing ever is.
I think the best thing is just to chill. Meet people you like. Meet people you don't like. There'll be fallow periods where you don't seem to be getting dates or anything for months or longer (my record - 3 long years...)
But whatever you do don't start looking up at statistics and things, because that does start to look incel. Do not become incel, or any of the other manosphere stuff. That's the best advice.
Not sure anybody thinks it's a good idea to bond for life without some experience? It's certainly not the default, and the roots of that sort of monogamy are dark as fuck, it was mostly only enforced on women in a really shitty manner.
But CHOOSING to be monogamous is reasonable. Especially if you have a good match, and enough experience to know it's a good match. It's still fun, and less risk of disease. If there was no STI risk I don't think it would be so popular though. Some combination of a solid long term partner and some degree of freedom for swinging or occasional fun would be less of a threat and more just some fun.
I don't think divorce/breakup is usually just because someone wants to be more sexually free though? It's more like relationship problems cause sex life problems and relationship problems cause divorce or breakups.
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Are you against divorce?
If it weren't tied to so much bureaucracy and financial bs, it probably wouldn't be as common. But neither would marriage, honestly.
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Hope... 🥺
hug
I've dated a decent number of men and women now, and I started dating this guy that just felt...right. He's the most thoughtful person I've ever met. He makes me strive to be a better person even when he's not around. Even when he doesn't realize I'm looking at him, he treats strangers and friends with kindness. He has a wonderful spirit.
We clicked really well, and I just don't feel this way with anyone else, even when I was dating them at the time. I never want anyone else but him.
The thing I figured out is that yes, there are certainly others out there that could be potential partners or friends. I'm sure there are lots. But in decades of friendships and relationships, I have yet to come across anyone quite like this. He's in a different class altogether. :)
Hey OP, instead of stating in the post body that you are referring to the concept of "the one", why not just simply change your post title to say "the one" rather than "monogamy?"
People fall in love for keeps. Not everyone but many do.
So I'm a queer woman and I swear ALL OF MY FRIENDS are some level of poly. Which, rock on! Good for them! But my GF and I are happily monogamous and can't imagine a future where we open it up. I have no shade, I've read the poly books, watched the open relationships YouTube and listened to the theroy, I totally understand where they are coming from and why it works for people. The divorce rate is a good enough example as any for why it makes people happy. Monogamy is not something to enforced or expected of people, clearly it isn't working for most folk.
But I also know any thing more than 1 partner just sounds STRESSFUL. Like, I always work myself up wondering if I am messing up ONE relationship, idk how y'all do it with multiple people to worry about. 😂
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